What amp for Paradigm Studio 20 v.2's? Help!

[psonic]

I would sell the receiver, and go integrated or separates. Inexpensive integrateds are vastly better than receivers in dynamic output level, and overall sound quality. My pal brought a NAD C320BEE over and it's 50wpc ran my Dynaudios to surprisingly high levels. Not as loud as my 120w Rotel separates, but very very loud before it started to sound stressed. Here is what I found on my speakers: NAD is a very good Rock amp, it is pushes the stage out of the speakers and has a forward effect. My Rotel is more relaxed in that respect. The NAD also seems to nail percussion and electric guitar with astounding clarity. I was also suprised with how well the $399 amp imaged, singer solidly in center and a little further out from speakers than Rotel; and other instruments easily found separated in their own space. NAD also gives a soundstage depth that is rare at this price. We then put in a 100w Yam receiver and the sound crumbled in every respect, it could not approach the levels or refinement of the NAD. This is one heck of a little amp for the money. I hear the C352 is even better, I have seen it on audiogon.com for $409 new, btw. I do not know what the circumstances were with RGA's poor review of this little amp, but I have to say is the minority here - almost everyone else cannot say enough good things about it for the money. The amp I reviewed clearly did not show the flaws he reported. I highly recommend NAD integrated amps, go give one an audition if possible.

[RGA]

I would sell the receiver, and go integrated or separates. Inexpensive integrateds are vastly better than receivers in dynamic output level, and overall sound quality. My pal brought a NAD C320BEE over and it's 50wpc ran my Dynaudios to surprisingly high levels. Not as loud as my 120w Rotel separates, but very very loud before it started to sound stressed. Here is what I found on my speakers: NAD is a very good Rock amp, it is pushes the stage out of the speakers and has a forward effect. My Rotel is more relaxed in that respect. The NAD also seems to nail percussion and electric guitar with astounding clarity. I was also suprised with how well the $399 amp imaged, singer solidly in center and a little further out from speakers than Rotel; and other instruments easily found separated in their own space. NAD also gives a soundstage depth that is rare at this price. We then put in a 100w Yam receiver and the sound crumbled in every respect, it could not approach the levels or refinement of the NAD. This is one heck of a little amp for the money. I hear the C352 is even better, I have seen it on audiogon.com for $409 new, btw. I do not know what the circumstances were with RGA's poor review of this little amp, but I have to say is the minority here - almost everyone else cannot say enough good things about it for the money. The amp I reviewed clearly did not show the flaws he reported. I highly recommend NAD integrated amps, go give one an audition if possible.

I like the 352 and 372. The 320Bee has a serious problem in the soundstage - we listened to the amp and they do what I've noticed some other SS amps doing trying to push sound beyond the boxes to the outside instead of forming a proper center image - on the Dianna Krall "Girl in the Other Room" disc it was very noticeable and very poor compared to the Rotel RA1. I think it's a neat trick what the 320 Bee is trying to do and some others but I don't want tricks I want music.

Incidentally, the designer of the 320Bee does not make any other NAD amplifiers.

[psonic]

Did you verify this independantly? I ask because I wonder if there could have been a problem in that setup (or specific amp), IE source problem or speaker out of phase or left/right input mixed up...I had the singer very center focused on the short audition I did. Perhaps the tracks I played were not a tough test for this, though. I have "the look of love", not that CD. Maybe I can grab a copy and stop over his place and do some more listining. I guess it is also possible (but I doubt it) that the specs have changed or cheaper parts used.

[Asmo]

I like the 352 and 372. The 320Bee has a serious problem in the soundstage - we listened to the amp and they do what I've noticed some other SS amps doing trying to push sound beyond the boxes to the outside instead of forming a proper center image - on the Dianna Krall "Girl in the Other Room" disc it was very noticeable and very poor compared to the Rotel RA1. I think it's a neat trick what the 320 Bee is trying to do and some others but I don't want tricks I want music.

Incidentally, the designer of the 320Bee does not make any other NAD amplifiers.

I've noticed that also, I am a Diana Krall fan as well. I used to own a old Marantz amp and at first liked what the NAD did, but realize that it is a form of trickery in the sound.

Anyways, I am considering buy a new amp + speakers soon, and I was considering upgrading from my 320 BEE to the 352 or 372 to power Paradigm Studio 40 v3s. Anyone here think this would be a good combo? Would the 352 be enough or should I go for the 372.

Thanks

[RGA]

Did you verify this independantly? I ask because I wonder if there could have been a problem in that setup (or specific amp), IE source problem or speaker out of phase or left/right input mixed up...I had the singer very center focused on the short audition I did. Perhaps the tracks I played were not a tough test for this, though. I have "the look of love", not that CD. Maybe I can grab a copy and stop over his place and do some more listining. I guess it is also possible (but I doubt it) that the specs have changed or cheaper parts used.

My dealer has carried NAD for years - I forget the designers name but NAD has contracted him on one of their prior more famous amplifiers - so i don't treally think it's a design failing. My dealer carries what he thinks will sound good for the money - and he will drag the manufacturers rep down to the store and tell them what he thinks pro or con. We used the AN E speakers which are not the kind of speakers that press a soundstage to the center like many a slim line so it's more suprising as to the result - there is a hint that vocals are centered but there is also an attempt from that amp to push it farther to the outside of the boxes - I can only assume that is a deliberate attempt to make the soundstage bigger to impress people - but it's so obviously not right. He went through three 320Bees contacted NAD tried to get a hold of the original designer. It may be a production problem and he got 3 bad ones in a row.

You also have to remember that he and me lately have been listening to much more expensive much better amplifiers which makes some of these flaws more noticeable - and the E will pick up on this kind of thing very quickly.

In the end the Rotel unit though (and it hasd some problems) did sound better in this high end system and it costs about the same money. The Rotel managed to be plausible when over its head and that's a compliment to any amp.

For what it's worth - my dealer(who doesn't sell gear anymore but seems to have one room to himself to try out stuff) carries both brands - I'm not going to buy either one he knows it and i know it so there is no point to Lying - I mentioned the positive reviews to him and he brings in the NAD to listen to - it's got problems. But we compared them side by side - most people won't - He said the new Brystons have a similar problem - I can;t say because i have not heard the 3BSST in the system.

I can only go by what I heard - it may be a production problem - it may be the speaker revealing that issue that other lesser speakers (which are likely to be used with that amp) can not. I think it's in the design to make the cheaper amp sound bigger and more high endish than it is - it's a good illusion only if it works.

[RGA]

I've noticed that also, I am a Diana Krall fan as well. I used to own a old Marantz amp and at first liked what the NAD did, but realize that it is a form of trickery in the sound.

Anyways, I am considering buy a new amp + speakers soon, and I was considering upgrading from my 320 BEE to the 352 or 372 to power Paradigm Studio 40 v3s. Anyone here think this would be a good combo? Would the 352 be enough or should I go for the 372.

Thanks

Can you move to a higher end amplifier? I would try tubes as well - someone on here has Jolida running Dynaudio so if they can drive Danes they can drive Paradigm. The best result I got with the Studio 100V2 was with the Sugden. In fact people always get on me about my Paradigm comments and yet I bought my amplifier on a listening session with the Studio100V2

The MF had a more expansive big sound the Sugden was more intimate and did smaller scale music much better(especially vocals).

The Audio Refinment Complete might be a good match on the SS front. It is made by YBA and is basically the YBA integre integrated but Audio Refinment is made in the far east rather than France - but the price is less than half for the "Complete." This amp is $999.00us.

I'd also be tempted to try some of the ASL tube amps as well as Jolida. I heard the older ASL AQ1003DT and it drove the B&W CDM 1NT with ease so the the Paradigms should be even easier - The new one is $200.00 more but it comes with remote and a nice removable cage, subwoofer outputs - and it looks really nice to boot - UHF reviewed the original version if you're interested I can find the review issue number and you can download it for cheap. The thing weighs a hefty 45 lbs and tube amps do need space as they get very hot - but if it's between the Nad 370 and this I'm leaning tubes. http://www.divertech.com/aq1003dt.html

[Asmo]

Can you move to a higher end amplifier? I would try tubes as well - someone on here has Jolida running Dynaudio so if they can drive Danes they can drive Paradigm. The best result I got with the Studio 100V2 was with the Sugden. In fact people always get on me about my Paradigm comments and yet I bought my amplifier on a listening session with the Studio100V2

The MF had a more expansive big sound the Sugden was more intimate and did smaller scale music much better(especially vocals).

The Audio Refinment Complete might be a good match on the SS front. It is made by YBA and is basically the YBA integre integrated but Audio Refinment is made in the far east rather than France - but the price is less than half for the "Complete." This amp is $999.00us.

I'd also be tempted to try some of the ASL tube amps as well as Jolida. I heard the older ASL AQ1003DT and it drove the B&W CDM 1NT with ease so the the Paradigms should be even easier - The new one is $200.00 more but it comes with remote and a nice removable cage, subwoofer outputs - and it looks really nice to boot - UHF reviewed the original version if you're interested I can find the review issue number and you can download it for cheap. The thing weighs a hefty 45 lbs and tube amps do need space as they get very hot - but if it's between the Nad 370 and this I'm leaning tubes. http://www.divertech.com/aq1003dt.html

I could quite possibly spend a lil more on the AMP, hard part is finding a good dealer that carries these amps to audition, I will definetly start looking around to see what I can find, that ASL amp looks very tempting, the sub outputs are nice too for 2chn + sub music listening.

I may also audition some other speakers, I am mainly considering Paradigms because I can get good trade in at my dealer with my current Paradigms I have now that I bought there. I'm planning a speaker/amp upgrade this spring, and I like to spend my time finding the perfect match. My current combo of c320BEE + Monitor 5s was great at the time I got a great deal on them, but now I can afford some more choices.

[RGA]

Tat's the problem we're always limited to the dealers we have access to. There are so many products I would like to hear but they're not sold in my area. I'm going to miss the CES show in Vegas this January but I will try to go next year - all the major players go and show of their new or best stuff. I wanted to hear the top end Audio Note system which goes up over a million dollars US I believe (2 channel).

But i would like to hear the Avantguards, and Von Sweikerts etc.

The Jolida 302B is very popular and uses the same tubes as the AQ1003DT from ASL and the 302B is a bit cheaper - no remote though but more power http://www.vacuumtube.com/JD%20302B.htm the 202A is $750 but the 302B people seem to think is their best unit. bigger pic http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd302b.shtml

[funnyhat]

Thanks for the help so far. Just to check, is the overall opinion that I need to spend either alot more than 500 and/or upgrade my speakers to have a significant improvement in sound, or would some of the NAD or other comparable integrated amps in that price range be worth it? Also, I recently moved from a 275 square foot apartment with rugs to a 600 square foot apartment with hardwood floors and I feel like I lost a lot of accuracy as well as lower frequency. I have experimented with the distance from the wall to the back of the speakers, but other than that are at a loss regarding speaker set up. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.