Upgrade time...maybe tube time?

[Mr Peabody]

I'm definitely not an expert on power supplies but I think it's like most things, you can find good and bad in each design. I'm not sure if having an external power supply is a guarantee of better results. The little Creek OBH-8 used an external power supply at under $200.00 and was an excellent phono stage, my Ph-1p retails around $1,600.00, it has an internal power supply and is regarded as an excellent phono stage in it's price range. I'd think an internal power supply with proper shielding would be less vonerable to interference than an external one would. Also anything I've used with power supplies have eventually shorted out at the plug or some where along the wire.

[Bernd]

Bernd,



The tauted advantage of the Pearl Tube Coolers is longer tube life -- up to 5 times, but they are also act as anti-microsonic dampers. Longer life might be a good thing if you've got rare, expensive tubes such as the CCa's. The Pearls for 9-pin mini-tubes like 6922's, are US$5.95 from Parts Connexion, which isn't a huge investment. Note that you do need a certain clearance around the tubes to mount them.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/NewTubes.html ... (see the right-most tab a the bottom of this screen)

The literature hints that there might be sound improvements but I can't say that I've heard any.

...for the link and info, Bill.
Just placed an order. See how it goes.

Interesting points about power supply (external or internal). My ART Audio Vinyl One had an internal power supply and was dead quiet. But in direct comparision to the Manley, with it's external power supply, it was also much less dynamic and missed some low level detail. Without comparing the two I would have never known.
I think that the Manleys power supply is very very good and over specified. Combine that with the very sensitive main unit of the steelhead and I can see now how hum was created in my set up. I agree that placemnet can make a huge difference. I never encountered or seriously considered that before this time. But moving the Power supply as far away as it will go cured all of the hum.
As for Mains products, if nothing else I like the peace of mind that my investment is protected should a power surge happen. The protection circuit in my Isoteks will trip before any damage is done.
Good luck Hiro with the new unit. Let us know, how you get on.

Peace

[basite]

actually, all the power centers & stuff...

would this make a difference too?
http://www.isoteksystems.com/multiway.asp

I only have a cheapo thing here (not even from a real brand or so, just some cheap stuff, no protection, no good contacts, nothing at all, just a box with powerplugs)

And Bernd,
I'm glad to hear you solved the hum problem,
Hum can be a real pain in the @ss sometimes...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Bernd]

actually, all the power centers & stuff...

would this make a difference too?
http://www.isoteksystems.com/multiway.asp

I only have a cheapo thing here (not even from a real brand or so, just some cheap stuff, no protection, no good contacts, nothing at all, just a box with powerplugs)

And Bernd,
I'm glad to hear you solved the hum problem,
Hum can be a real pain in the @ss sometimes...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

.....hums no more. Thanks Bert.

I think the Isotek would be a fine choice for you. If nothing else it would provide surge protection for your system and isolation between the different plugs. And later on, if you want to upgrade, you can implement the multiway or even have it upgraded.
I like Isotek products as it is the only thing that they do.
Hope this helps.

Peace

[Feanor]

Best, most tuby sound yet. A pair of used Amperex USA white letter 'PQ' 6922 tube: the smoothest, richest, most "musical" sound yet with no loss of detail.

The "new" tubes are in the gain stage. The inputs remain Siemens E88CC and the cathode followers, Sovtek 6922.

The Amperex came from eBay ...

[basite]

congrats

happy listening...

btw, does anybody know where Bernd is? haven't seen him for quite a while on AR...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Bernd]

Best, most tuby sound yet. A pair of used Amperex USA white letter 'PQ' 6922 tube: the smoothest, richest, most "musical" sound yet with no loss of detail.

The "new" tubes are in the gain stage. The inputs remain Siemens E88CC and the cathode followers, Sovtek 6922.

The Amperex came from eBay ...

.....that it's not only the tubes, but the circuit they are going into are as important as one another. Well done on scoring the BBs Bill.
When I had my Pathos Logos.I tried a pair and the sound became very dull and un-dynamic. Whereas several other people reported exactely what you found. If they work in your amp you found the right tube for you.

Enjoy.

Peace

[Feanor]

.....that it's not only the tubes, but the circuit they are going into are as important as one another. Well done on scoring the BBs Bill.
When I had my Pathos Logos.I tried a pair and the sound became very dull and un-dynamic. Whereas several other people reported exactely what you found. If they work in your amp you found the right tube for you.

Enjoy.

Peace

That is, that the circuit is important. I certainly haven't notice any lost of dynamics with the Amperex PQ's, but then the fully balanced design of the LINE 1 might be a big factor, especially in combo with the fully balanced, dynamic Monarchy amps. Also, with the PQ's I feel I'm hearing the greater sense of depth often attributed to tubes, but which I hadn't noted with the tubes I've tried heretofore.

Anyway, the LINE 1 has had mixed review over the years, which I'd suggest are the fault ot the standard Sovtek tubes. With the Sovteks the LINE1 sounded drier, brighter, and generally pretty solid state.

.

[Bernd]

That is, that the circuit is important. I certainly haven't notice any lost of dynamics with the Amperex PQ's, but then the fully balanced design of the LINE 1 might be a big factor, especially in combo with the fully balanced, dynamic Monarchy amps. Also, with the PQ's I feel I'm hearing the greater sense of depth often attributed to tubes, but which I hadn't noted with the tubes I've tried heretofore.

Anyway, the LINE 1 has had mixed review over the years, which I'd suggest are the fault ot the standard Sovtek tubes. With the Sovteks the LINE1 sounded drier, brighter, and generally pretty solid state.

.

.....but swapping from the stock Sovteks to Telefunkens E188CC was very obvious. When I then tried the Amperex I percieved a small loss of clarity and dynamics, but the BBs were way better than the Sovteks.
Your Buggle Boys are superb tubes and I wished I kept mine to try them out now in a different circuit.
Are you going to stick with some tubes in your replay chain now ? Tubes add some magic, don't you think?
Enjoy the warm glow and the music.
I have just scored a NOS matched pair of Tungsram E88CC. Looking forward to trying them out. I really liked there 12AX7s.

Peace

[Feanor]

.....but swapping from the stock Sovteks to Telefunkens E188CC was very obvious. When I then tried the Amperex I percieved a small loss of clarity and dynamics, but the BBs were way better than the Sovteks.
Your Buggle Boys are superb tubes and I wished I kept mine to try them out now in a different circuit.
Are you going to stick with some tubes in your replay chain now ? Tubes add some magic, don't you think?
Enjoy the warm glow and the music.
I have just scored a NOS matched pair of Tungsram E88CC. Looking forward to trying them out. I really liked there 12AX7s.

Peace

Just for clarification the 'PQ' Amperex are not Buggle Boys, but a different series. I'm a long, long way from being a tube conneseur but I believe the PQs are more highly regarded than the BBs, anyway the 'white label' ones seem to go for about twice the price. I found a reference at Audio Asylum from a guy who'd tried dozens of 6922 type tubes, and PQs were among his to top choices, (even above the CCa's !!). I'll try to locate that for you.

I like the sound from the LINE at the moment so I'll probably stick with the current configuration for now. Of course I'd heard about tube rolling before I got the preamp, but what really got me going was the LINE's sound which as scarcely any different from my former S/S preamp and really presented none of the signature tube sound people talk about. The Amperex PQs are now delivering a lot of that, especially the sense of depth, (not they're not microphonic!). The Siemens E88CC and Reflektors I tried where an improvement over the Sovteks but in the LINE 1 really didn't deliver all the goods.

Let us know what you think of the Tungsram when you've had a chance to hear them.

[Bernd]

...it. For some reason I thought you had BBs. Think I had a senior moment here. Those Amperex PQ white label are indeed very well regarded. I never had any of them. I also have a pair of Telefunkens E188CC, but to me, in the Manleys circuit, the Siemens CCa's sound a touch better. Again somebody else might hear that different.
I really rate Tungsrams, but they have to be originals with the small metal numbered tag.Will let you know how I get on. They are on their way to me as I type this.
It's great to hear that you enjoy the SF and that it all worked out.
Have a good one.

Peace

[Bernd]

....E88CC.

Hi Bill,

The tubes were waiting for me yesterday as I got home. Will install them today and see what they will do.
I hope you can see the little metal numbered tag inside the tube. It's just behind the "T".There are quiet a few Tungsram copies about, who were made in eastern germany. These will not have the metal tag. Just a point of info for those who are interested. Also these come with the original Hungarian instructions (no good to me, as I can't read hungarian) and numbered run. All very promising.

Have a great weekend

Peace

[Feanor]

....E88CC.

Hi Bill,

The tubes were waiting for me yesterday as I got home. Will install them today and see what they will do.
I hope you can see the little metal numbered tag inside the tube. It's just behind the "T".There are quiet a few Tungsram copies about, who were made in eastern germany. These will not have the metal tag. Just a point of info for those who are interested. Also these come with the original Hungarian instructions and numbered run. All very promising.

Have a great weekend

Peace

Good luck with the Tungsrams, Bernd, and let us know how they work out.

By the way here's the reference from AA I mentioned a few days ago. This chap covers of his experiences with 12AU7, 12AX7, and 6922-type tubes. Seems he never tried any Tungsram examples, though ...
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d...ubes.html#6DJ8

Sorry, can't actually find the inside number tag you refer to. The retail price for Tungsrams is out of my range (e.g. at Upscale Audio); same for CCa, and for that matter Siemens E88CCs. I got mine Siemens on eBay for a good deal less than half retail. Of course, one runs a much greater risk of counterfeit there than from a reputable dealer.

[jrhymeammo]

One question for you Bill,

Have you tried going to back to you stock tubes, and see what you think them now?

SF sounds to be a great bargain, but not so much after spending alot of money retubing.


JRA

[Feanor]

One question for you Bill,

Have you tried going to back to you stock tubes, and see what you think them now?

SF sounds to be a great bargain, but not so much after spending alot of money retubing.


JRA

And no, I haven't yet swapped back the Sovteks: yes, there is a risk I might find the upgrades weren't really worth it. I doubt it though -- after these 35 years of listening to hi-fi.

No doubt I didn't take the optimal course for the result I now like best. Knowing what I know now, I would buy the Amperex white label PQ's and try them put them in the gain position, leaving the Sovteks in the other two positions. This is the configuration I ought to try next.

Anyway, you have the BAT VK-3i now which you will doubtless love, so it's no issue for you.

[Mr Peabody]

Feanor, you and Bernd are slowly becoming my heroes with all this tube rolling discussion I haven't yet become confident enough to try such a thing. CJ discourages it and I'm happy with my sound but you never know.

JRA, I didn't realize you had a BAT, how do you like it and what else is in your 2 channel set up? I saw BAT was one of the first to use the, 6H30?, something like that, the super tube, once the tube became available to other manufacturers ARC started using it. This may be a coincidence but around the same time ARC's sound became colder and what I can only call an industrial or gray feel to the music. ARC's earlier gear's sound stuck in my mind and what eventually led me to seek out some tube gear but by that time the ARC sound turned me off. I am just curious how you would describe the BAT sound, if neutral or if it gives the presence like tube gear can sometimes do.

[Bernd]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody]Feanor, you and Bernd are slowly becoming my heroes with all this tube rolling discussion I haven't yet become confident enough to try such a thing. CJ discourages it and I'm happy with my sound but you never know.

QUOTE]

Good Morning Mr P.,

Just try it, it's good fun and in the long run you might find a tube that works much better in your amps circuit than stock tubes. Especially the small signal tubes can make a big difference. I must track down some of those US Amperex PQ Bill is using.

Peace

[Bernd]

....to hijack Feanor's thread.
At last I have a free weekend, so I thought I post a little update.
Bill, I have not tried the Tungsrams yet. Will hopefully have some time to do so over the weekend.

Well, the Sphinx amps got here and they are as good as new. Sounding superb. Very Hifi like, fast and clean. I am not sure if the sound is for me, as I love my Tubes.
So along came another great offer I couldn't pass.
Took delivery yesterday of Unison Research Unico DM.
Valves (ECC82s) in the input stage and class A Mosfets in the output. Bridged these put out 500W.
So now I have an integrated all tube amp, hybrid power amp and all solid state power amp.
I do prefer the sound of tubes in my replay chain. So I think I will sell the Sphinx to someone who likes their solid state presentation.
The Manley Steelhead and the Unico DM sound almost more Tube like than my Unison Research Performance. Ultimately the Performance is a better amp with just that little bit more of everything. But it's nice to have a choice, and the family sound of Unison Research, which I like, is present in both.
Hope everyone is well and enjoying their tunes.

Have a great weekend.

Peace

[basite]

well congrats, Bernd,

I can only imagine how music sounds there.
and I'm sure the 500 watts of power certainly made a big impact


You too,
Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[jrhymeammo]

C Bernd,

Very cool my man.

I received my new toy as well, and am still looking to power it with something.
I've been looking for a pair of used PS AUdio A-100 and others, but I just can't help myself from look at tube amps such as Rogue M-150 and others with blalanced inputs.

I'm just not sure if I can get away from comfort of tubes as you have found out.

Keep'em Glowing my man.

JRA

[Feanor]

....to hijack Feanor's thread.
At last I have a free weekend, so I thought I post a little update.
Bill, I have not tried the Tungsrams yet. Will hopefully have some time to do so over the weekend.

Well, the Sphinx amps got here and they are as good as new. Sounding superb. Very Hifi like, fast and clean. I am not sure if the sound is for me, as I love my Tubes.
So along came another great offer I couldn't pass.
Took delivery yesterday of Unison Research Unico DM.
Valves (ECC82s) in the input stage and class A Mosfets in the output. Bridged these put out 500W.
So now I have an integrated all tube amp, hybrid power amp and all solid state power amp.
I do prefer the sound of tubes in my replay chain. So I think I will sell the Sphinx to someone who likes their solid state presentation.
The Manley Steelhead and the Unico DM sound almost more Tube like than my Unison Research Performance. Ultimately the Performance is a better amp with just that little bit more of everything. But it's nice to have a choice, and the family sound of Unison Research, which I like, is present in both.
Hope everyone is well and enjoying their tunes.

Have a great weekend.

Peace

Bernd,

Thanks for the updates. I hadn't heard of the Sphinx. They look very compact: are they "digital"?

I still suspect that tube amps work by adding pleasant distortion to mask less pleasant forms, but regardless, as I've learned, the one can prefer the end result.

[Bernd]

Bernd,

Thanks for the updates. I hadn't heard of the Sphinx. They look very compact: are they "digital"?

I still suspect that tube amps work by adding pleasant distortion to mask less pleasant forms, but regardless, as I've learned, the one can prefer the end result.

Hi Bill,

No, they are not digital. Pure ss. The dutch cable manufacturer "Siltech" used to have a little side line run by a small team of really dedicated guys that handbuild the "Sphinx" electronics.
The sound is very clean, detailed and fast with a nice soundstage, but I think the most important thing is that they are very stable and easy drive tough loudspeaker loads. Ideal for planars I reckon.
I think I am just hooked for good on Tubes. Just wanted to try a pair of Sphinx amps, and the offer was really good. Damn fine amps they are, just lacking a bit of soul for me.They also made a hybrid power amp. The Project 14 I think, rare as hens teeth.

Peace

[Bernd]

C Bernd,

Very cool my man.

I received my new toy as well, and am still looking to power it with something.
I've been looking for a pair of used PS AUdio A-100 and others, but I just can't help myself from look at tube amps such as Rogue M-150 and others with blalanced inputs.

I'm just not sure if I can get away from comfort of tubes as you have found out.

Keep'em Glowing my man.

JRA

Congrats. on the new toy J. I am glad it went well. You could try and locate a Unison Research Unico DM. It has true balanced and single ended inputs. You can run it either as a straight forward stereo amp or as bridged mono. I reckon it would work well with your BAT.
Good luck with the hunt. It's good to have some spare time and catch up with you all.

Peace

[Mr Peabody]

Bernd, how much power are the Spinx and what price range are they in? It would be interesting to hear their sound, Siltech makes some impressive cables. I wonder how they would compare to other solid state such as Krell or Pass.

It's not the distortion I like about tubes, I do prefer more defined images of solid state, the addicting thing about tubes to me is the presence. It's hard to describe, it's the thing that fools you more into believing the performance is in your room. One guy once said it's "putting the flesh on the bone".

It sounds like everyone is enjoying the hobby though, carry on.

[Bernd]

Bernd, how much power are the Spinx and what price range are they in? It would be interesting to hear their sound, Siltech makes some impressive cables. I wonder how they would compare to other solid state such as Krell or Pass.

It's not the distortion I like about tubes, I do prefer more defined images of solid state, the addicting thing about tubes to me is the presence. It's hard to describe, it's the thing that fools you more into believing the performance is in your room. One guy once said it's "putting the flesh on the bone".

It sounds like everyone is enjoying the hobby though, carry on.

Hi Mr.P.

I don't like distortion either. Putting flesh on the bones is a great way to describe the tube sound. But then again, not all tube gear sounds the same. Some real stinkers about.

No question about the quality of Sphinx amps. As I said, just a bit too clinical for my liking.
Here are some figures for the Project 12:

Powerrating: 150Watt / 8 Ohm

250Watt / 4 Ohm

300Watt / 2 Ohm

Bandwidth: dc - 5 MHz; dc - 300 KHz after inputfiltering

Powerbandwidth: dc - 1,5 MHz; dc - 300 KHz after inputfiltering

Propagationdel.: 103 nSec.

Slewrate: 100 V/uSec.

Dampening: >2000 dc - 300 KHz

THD: < 0.002% 1 Watt 8 Ohm

<0.1% 150 Watt 8 Ohm

Sensitivity: 0,9 Volt = 150 Watt 8 Ohm

And it does sounds that there are some happy audio people about. Carry on indeed.

Peace

Bernd