Recommendations for power Infinity Kappa 9's pease

[blackraven]

You might want to consider this AVA amp with the double die option rated at 220wpc @ 8 ohms and can drive 1ohm loads.

http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=...166&Itemid=209

or this FET Valve hybrid amp with the triple Die option rated at 280wpc at 8ohms, over 500wpc at 4ohms and can drive 2 ohm loads.

http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=...153&Itemid=209

[efertheredfish]

At 500$ there is no amplifier on the market expect the HCA2200 that can drive such low impedance loads the Kappa 9's will visit.
The guy doesn't want to spend more than 400$, so I think a better suggestion like the HCA2200 in that price range doesn't even exitst.

Its not the most musical amp, but it works....

[Feanor]

At 500$ there is no amplifier on the market expect the HCA2200 that can drive such low impedance loads the Kappa 9's will visit.
The guy doesn't want to spend more than 400$, so I think a better suggestion like the HCA2200 in that price range doesn't even exitst.

Its not the most musical amp, but it works....

Or maybe there is if you're will to consider a pro amp, e.g. this Yamaha P2500S, here.

[Raj J]

Hey Stefan,

Funny thing this post was initially done somewhere in Sept 2010... and here we are still giving our expert advice, this guy has probably forgotten us by now!
Driving Kappa's with some mediocre amp, trying to get the best out of it will no doubt result in blown up units or will completely shut down; I truly hope he manages to find someting decent eventually...

Speaking of Krells: they don't really tickle me, they just have enough muscle to drive about anything, other than that the musicality factor is missing a great deal!
With regards to solid state I prefer Mark Levinson or Pass Labs, or Bryston on a more affordable level that can also drive about anything out there. However, I personally don't like solid state sound!
To me Threshold is really not up to the mark when compared to any of the other top brands I just mentioned, even MacIntosh or McCormack sounds far better to my tastes. I also happened to listen to a pair of massive 800watt Threshold monoblocks driving a pair of huge B&W Matrix 800 (7ft tree trunks!); in terms of power, dynamics, guts, bass to rip your clothes off and of course bring down a few tiles from the roof it was all there. BUT there was absolutely no MUSIC! My 60watt conrad johnson MV60SE with KT120 tubes beats the overall sound by a FAR margin; Tubes rule!

I understand you have the Audio research M300 amps, nice! They are very fine amps, and is a hybrind design of course which I have had the pleasure of listening to driving a glorious pair of Apogee Divas. They were in mint condition, and the sound was very musical indeed. Compared to Threshold, no way not even close! There really is no point trying to compare solid state with tubes...

There are many music lovers, audiophiles, enthusiasts etc who will strongly stand for solid state - so be it! They enjoy there music through transistors and enjoy listening to their favorite tracks via solid state gear, that's great mate!
As for me and the other vast majority of true music lovers, there will always be tubes somewhere in the chain, you cannot deny that! In all of my 25 years & over dealing with 2 channel audio systems in various forms, shapes & sizes - I can still place a little tube amp side by side against a massive solid state monster, and at once notice the natural tones of music through that tube amp regardless of the brand.

I now have the Quad ESL 2905's being driven with a simple pre-power combination from conrad johnson and a vacuum tube CD player; this is musicality at it's finest!

We all sincerely know, and cannot deny it that "under driving" quality speakers will get you no where... That's why I keep telling those enthusiasts to first get your amplifiers; build your system around the amp and not the speaker, unless you have the big bucks!

Trust you are enjoying your music to the max and very satisfied with those lovely M300's!
What speakers and preamp are you using by the way?
Have a good one,
cheers, Raj J

[Mr Peabody]

I understand where you are coming from Raj, but "musicality" is in the ear of the beholder. The thing that Krell does that I have yet to hear tubes match is bone jarring transient response. The sound is also very quick and nimble. Just saying some may feel that type of presentation is more musical.

[efertheredfish]

Hello Raj,


They are good amps for the woofers, but they can't handle the transparency in the midrange and tweeter region.
The Thresholds are almost perfect and becouse the STASIS circuit makes them sound like a tube amp. If you do not want to have retube and it is a perfect match for Infinity hence it makes appear the ribbon to become crystallic clear which on the other hand doesn't work with the Krells.
John Gordon Holdt and Arnie Nudell seleted therefore the Thresholds as an fabolous soloution to the Infinitys if you do not like to have a tube amp. If you use a tube pre your as good as with the M300's. There is not much sound difference in my setup no matter what i use becouse i pair it correctly. ( tube pre)
The STASIS Series were tested on the IRS, Gamma, Beta, RS-1 and they sounded like a dream!
The M300's have many disadvantages they are not working stable at 230V here in Europe and if the tests points aren't set correctly they are a disaster. They are expensive in repair. I retube once a year and the costs aren't cheap. They aren't my favourite stuff. Conrad Johnson is better, but you can also use a tube pre and the Threshold for the Kappa 9's and they sang as good in the lower frequency region even better than the M300's.
Match the components right. Thats the glue.
When Arnie selected Threshold as an option you can't go wrong. You just do not like the sound of this amp, but its pairs nearly perfect!
What you want with Bryston. They are far too low powered for all the Infinitys and noone would recommend them.
The Adcoms cannot drive this speaker. They have a good circuit, but they are not a high current design. My suggestion for 500$ on Craigslist, the HCA2200 works nearly perfect and it was tested during that time with the Kappa 9's. It is not a new amp where nobody knows if it works or not. It does pretty well. It isn't the most musical option, but I understand this guy.
We here have an Inflation about 4%. Its pretty silly to drive to car wash and pay 12$ when you select the cheapest washing programm. SILLY???
The Pass nearly have the same circuit and I agree that they sound well on the Kappas.
Also your infos that a 200 Watt tube amp sounds fine and a higher powered one better.
Man, the output transformer has to be designed with two ohm windings switched with another one parallel or one ohm windings at the output tap to match the low impedance with the Kappa 9's.
There are 50 watt tube amp outside that sound better than your suggestions here in the forum!

We all know there are a lot possibilities, but we should come back to the origin of this post to recommend very low priced affordable electronics to drive the K9's. Anything else is good to hear, but wont help this guy much.

My suggestion is a 300$ tube pre from Prima Luna and the HCA2200 to drive the whole speaker.

That should work and shound quite fine!
Cheers
Stefan

[efertheredfish]

Some other working amps come in my mind, but i do not know how they are dealt in the US.

Nakamichi PA7E
FORTE 1A ( a pair to drive the kappa 9's)
Vincent D150

[Mr Peabody]

I have to disagree, the larger Adcom 5500/555/545/5400 are high current design, that's a fact, whether enough to drive K9's not sure. Interesting you'd put them down since they too are Pass designed. I used the 5400 & 5500 on Dynaudio 4 ohm speakers, which are pretty stable, the amps rocked them without breaking a sweat.

Also, Bryston are rock solid high current amps which are in an entire higher level from Adcom.

[efertheredfish]

I have to disagree, the larger Adcom 5500/555/545/5400 are high current design, that's a fact, whether enough to drive K9's not sure. Interesting you'd put them down since they too are Pass designed. I used the 5400 & 5500 on Dynaudio 4 ohm speakers, which are pretty stable, the amps rocked them without breaking a sweat.

Also, Bryston are rock solid high current amps which are in an entire higher level from Adcom.

Both the Adcom and the Bryston cannot deliver the current Kappa's need. If you drive them in extended mode, it switches off pretty fast. The Parasound and Vincent still work very well.


The Adcoms and Brystons are good amps, but they can't handle the low impedance the Kappa 9's will visit. I have two of them here for repair :-)


Cheers
Stefan

[Feanor]

Both the Adcom and the Bryston cannot deliver the current Kappa's need. If you drive them in extended mode, it switches off pretty fast. The Parasound and Vincent still work very well.


The Adcoms and Brystons are good amps, but they can't handle the low impedance the Kappa 9's will visit. I have two of them here for repair :-)


Cheers
Stefan

I'm bemused by this whole topic. If the Kappa 9's are indeed as difficult to drive as Efertheredfish makes them out to be, then I suggest they're more trouble than they're worth, (given the huge variety of great speakers out there).

As ever, it's not just the impedence range but also the volumes that count -- an amp might handle 2 ohms at 20% of rated output but not at 100%. Cooling is a factor too; fans might be necessary.

If one must live with such an impractical speaker and, at the same time, have a limited budget, then consider a good professional amp. E.g. a QSC PLX1802 that can deliver 900 wpc into 2 ohms.continuously; about US$900.

[Mr Peabody]

The 9's are, a bear. I don't believe amps like Vincent or regular Parasound deliver more current than Bryston.

[efertheredfish]

The 9's are, a bear. I don't believe amps like Vincent or regular Parasound deliver more current than Bryston.

I had it on the bench and they are able to handle the short musical transiens better and for a longer time. The slew rate seems to be better fitted within the tolearance of the capable current than on the other amps. This is what i measured here in my home.
I also noticed that the caps at the .78 ohm load @ 38 Hz have still enough enegry.

Harnman in Germany tested those amps during the early 90's and they worked pretty well. Measurement and protcols can be ordered via mail from harman in Germany, but only for payment as far as i know.

If you do not believe, its up to you.

No, this loudspeaker isa joy to listen if you pair them right. I never said that Infinitys are cheap. They preformance is beyond most other speakers even the most expensive ones if you power them right

I only know the Bryston 4B and 3 and they don't have the power to drive the Kappa's quite well. The larger models can do that, but I assume they are far over 500$???

Cheers
Stefan

[Raj J]

thanks for your messages and advice folks, no doubt seems like this guy has a dinasour to drive...
which is excatly my point; doesn't have the budget to spend on a good quality amp to drive the kappa's to their true full potential - therefore it will never be a Kappa! and that is my point.
he's better off selling the thing and getting a pair of fine mini-monitors with a sweet tube amp that will give him endless hours of musical perfection, but it seems like musicality is probably not the factor here so forget that!

Manley monoblocks 350 watt tube design, mac amps, or even the big VTL's will drive these babies with ease. solid state I would think Krell's, Pass Labs, ok Threshold for crying out loud, and of course none other than Audio Research - tube or solid state AR will defintely drive Kappa's no sweat.
anything else, forget it! not even interested...
cheers, and have a good one!
RJ

[Panagiotis Melas]

Hello from Greece.

May 2012 be a Prosperous, Healthy, Peaceful and Happy Year for everyone in this community.

This is ny first post and the thread drew my attention, when I was searching for information about the Infinity 9 Kappa speakers impedance.

I am also an owner of an Infinity RS 9 Kappa pair. I purchased these speaker from a hi-end store in Orleans, back in December 1991. I loaded them on a tanker vessel, a ship under my responsibility, when I was working as a sup't engineer in a shipping company. They travelled North Atlantic up to Italy, and from there by truck all the way to Greece. Since then, they have been my reference speakers (together with a pair of Mirage M3-si ones, which are located in a different space).

I tried first to drive them with a Sansui AUX-911DG integrated amplifier, a very fine one (110 WRMS/ch), but it was obviously inadequate for them. Then, I tried a powerful Carver TFM-45 (375 WRMS/ch), but its sound was fairly muddy. Then I obtained a Hafler XL-600 (305 WRMS/ch), which seemed to drive them much better, but still something was missing.

Soon I got a second XL-600 and I hooked both Haflers with bi-amping configuration. The sound became much more open, not because there was more power, but probably because the mid and high frequency sections had their own amplification unit to drive them, ditto with the bass units.

Then I discovered Musical Concepts. I ordered my first modification kit, the PA-1 and I modified one of the XL-600's, leaving the other as it was. I used the modified Hafler alone to drive the Infinities. The sound was indeed bettered. Unfortunately, I had to sell this execellent modified XL-600, which later on turned to be a big mistake. But I couldn't settle.

After about one or two years from that event, the PA-3B Elite kit became available from Musical Concepts. This was a major improvement of the first (and second) generation kits. The Elite kit, except the electronics (boards, transistors, resistors, capacitors, etc.), it also included a pair of toroidal transformers, to replace the original "boxy" transformer in the XL-600. When I found myself again in the US, I ordered that kit and I carried it back home. I modified the remaining Hafler with it and there it was:

A sound revelation with full details and glory!!

I tried the Infinities again with a newer Hafler, the 9500 TransNova (250 WRMS/ch). The TransNova drove them well, but not like the modified XL-600. I settled with the XL-600 since then.

Certainly, I expect that much more expensive units, coming from Krell, ML, Audio Research, McIntosh, Threshold etc. would add a lot to the sound of these speakers, but........we live in hard times and I believe that an afoordable AND good solution, a real "value for money", can be everybody's target.

Good day to all.
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