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  1. #1
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    pulled trigger on class d audio

    Well after hearing a lot of press about them I finally decided to pull the trigger on a class D audio amp and it is ordered and on its way. i decided to give the 440c amp a try since it have more than enough power for almost any speaker I will likely be getting in the future and should be a good match with my Dynaudios. I will be retiring my Adcom to use it for a rear channel amp since it is getting older and needs a more relaxed job and the rear channels in my system should be a good place for that. Will let you guys know what I think after it comes in and I have a chance to listen to it.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  2. #2
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    Congrats, keep us updated. I'm really interested in how they drive the Danes.

  3. #3
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07 View Post
    Well after hearing a lot of press about them I finally decided to pull the trigger on a class D audio amp and it is ordered and on its way. i decided to give the 440c amp ...
    Hope you enjoy it, Harley. We await your impressions.

    I've generally enjoyed my 258, the most transparent amp I've owned and the best for accurate instrument timbres. IMO, the CDA amps are by no means "tube-like" as their descriptions say (or used to). They are the antithesis of "veiled" or grainy but don't deliver "harmonic richness" or long "decays" that aren't actually in the recording. They are ultra-neutral but some will fine them bright.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Hope you enjoy it, Harley. We await your impressions.

    I've generally enjoyed my 258, the most transparent amp I've owned and the best for accurate instrument timbres. IMO, the CDA amps are by no means "tube-like" as their descriptions say (or used to). They are the antithesis of "veiled" or grainy but don't deliver "harmonic richness" or long "decays" that aren't actually in the recording. They are ultra-neutral but some will fine them bright.
    That almost sounds like a good description of my Counterpoint amp.

  5. #5
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07 View Post
    Well after hearing a lot of press about them I finally decided to pull the trigger on a class D audio amp and it is ordered and on its way. i decided to give the 440c amp a try since it have more than enough power for almost any speaker I will likely be getting in the future and should be a good match with my Dynaudios. I will be retiring my Adcom to use it for a rear channel amp since it is getting older and needs a more relaxed job and the rear channels in my system should be a good place for that. Will let you guys know what I think after it comes in and I have a chance to listen to it.
    Congrats! The 440C looks like a great deal. I can't wait to hear your impressions.

  6. #6
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    Congrat's Harley. I wonder of digital amps need time to break in like tubes or ss...you will be finding out soon.
    My audio lab:
    Qinpu A-6000 MK ll Integrated Amp
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    HHB CDR-850
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    Parasound Zamp V.3/Parasound ZPre2 Preamp
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Congrats!. I think that you will really like the smooth sound of these amps. They produce a very nice tight and deep bass and have no grain. I do however find the sound to lean a little bit on the sunny side. Placing some 0.5ohm resistors in my MMG's fixed the problem
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
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    Parasound A21 amp
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  8. #8
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Congrats Harley! I cant wait to read your thoughts..I wonder how well it will do with your NU-FORCE preamp. Are you going to try that configuration?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  9. #9
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    I cant seem to find that amp at CLass D Audio....do you have a link?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  10. #10
    Ajani
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    Last edited by Ajani; 03-01-2012 at 04:24 PM.

  11. #11
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Thank you sir!
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    W10 i5 Quad core processor 8GB RAM/Jriver 20/ Fidelizer Optimizer/ iFI Micro DSD DAC-iUSB 3.0/Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/MS Phenomena ll+/Canton Vento 830.2

  12. #12
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    yes sir I am going to try the Nuforce preamp with the class d audio to see how it works together. I should think it should work fine and I ordered balanced cables since both units use balanced cables and I will let you know when it gets here and I get a chance to hear it for myself and see if it lives up to what people are talking about.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  13. #13
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    but don't deliver "harmonic richness" or long "decays" that aren't actually in the recording.
    Built in reverb feature? Which products should we avoid in that regard?

  14. #14
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Built in reverb feature {"decays")? Which products should we avoid in that regard?
    Dunno, ask RGA, he's the guy who talks about decays and how they're missing from solid state amps and generally most things except SETs.

  15. #15
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Dunno, ask RGA, he's the guy who talks about decays and how they're missing from solid state amps and generally most things except SETs.
    I see. You've never heard this phenomena yourself. Perhaps you are misstating something he's said. Can you point to anything in particular?

  16. #16
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    I see. You've never heard this phenomena yourself. Perhaps you are misstating something he's said. Can you point to anything in particular?
    No, I'm not misstating him; perhaps I'll look for quotes at some point.

    Decay? Yes, the trailing edge of notes, e.g. of piano, revealing instrument timbre as sound dies away. Yes, I've heard that. It is RGA's contention the tube amps, especially SET, have more natural sound of decays -- i.e. one he likes better.

  17. #17
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Yes, I've heard that. It is RGA's contention the tube amps, especially SET, have more natural sound of decays .
    Well, that is clearly different from "long decays that aren't in the recording".

    I would agree that some amplifiers render micro dynamics better than others.

  18. #18
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Feanor
    Yes, I've heard that. It is RGA's contention the tube amps, especially SET, have more natural sound of decays.
    Well, that is clearly different from "long decays that aren't in the recording".
    ...
    I think not; he has described s/s decays as being "short".

    "Long" decays would presumably be related to the "harmonic richness/fullness" characteristic of (some) tube amps. As I've stated on many occasions, my hunch is that this is an artificiality of these designs.

  19. #19
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I think not; he has described s/s decays as being "short".
    Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    "Long" decays would presumably be related to the "harmonic richness/fullness" characteristic of (some) tube amps.
    Presumably? You cannot "extend" a decay with harmonic distortion. You can change its tone, but not duration. That's reverberation.

    Still wondering what you read you give you this strange notion that tube amps add reverberation to recordings.

    You say you've never heard that before. Neither have I! before.

    Edit: did a search on "decay" by RGA. What I find is he uses this term somewhat differently than do I. First of all, he says panel speakers never get this right. Huh? Right. Nearly massless drivers cannot convey the time domain correctly.

    Anyway, I found one reference to "better decay" as in the qualitative sense. Its that low level detail to which I earlier referred.

    What I also found was something that completely contradicts your assertion that it is the additive harmonic content (which you cannot hear - and I've proven that to myself with tests) is responsible. Read this post again:

    distortion only affects..
    Last edited by E-Stat; 03-03-2012 at 06:57 AM.

  20. #20
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    ...
    You cannot "extend" a decay with harmonic distortion. You can change its tone, but not duration. That's reverberation.

    Still wondering what you read you give you this strange notion that tube amps add reverberation to recordings.
    Extended decays are RGA's notion, not mind. As for reverberation or "false ambience" as I've described it, I heard this from my tube preamp.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    ...
    Edit: did a search on "decay" by RGA. What I find is he uses this term somewhat differently than do I. First of all, he says panel speakers never get this right. Huh? Right. Nearly massless drivers cannot convey the time domain correctly.
    I'm with you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    ...
    Anyway, I found one reference to "better decay" as in the qualitative sense. Its that low level detail to which I earlier referred.

    What I also found was something that completely contradicts your assertion that it is the additive harmonic content (which you cannot hear - and I've proven that to myself with tests) is responsible. Read this post again:

    distortion only affects..
    The "something" you refer to in in this instance is assertion by RGA which I don't necessarily agree.

    How about this gem of concentrated rubbish?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    ...
    In other words the great tube amp may be giving you 95% of what is on the recording and adding 5% in various distortion artifacts but it a SS amp may only be providing 70% of the recording and .0005% distortion but it has missed 25% of what is really there on the recording
    ...
    I don't know what causes tube artifacts, I have only hypothesised that it's distortion. You assert that you have proven to yourself that you can't hear tube distortion; have you run the same sort of test to determine whether you can hear .001% THD that contains levels of high-order distortion produced by decent s/s amps?

  21. #21
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Extended decays are RGA's notion, not mind. As for reverberation or "false ambience" as I've described it, I heard this from my tube preamp.
    Added noise alone will add false ambience when your comparison is to using no preamp - as I have done. That has nothing to do with the nature of the active device or its harmonic structure. Or, you just had a poor example of tube electronics. Is that company still in business? How many different tube line stages have you heard ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    You assert that you have proven to yourself that you can't hear tube distortion
    What I assert is that using the online distortion test I posted about years ago, I could not resolve lower than 2% harmonic distortion. I invited you to challenge your preconceptions and you declined.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    ; have you run the same sort of test to determine whether you can hear .001% THD that contains levels of high-order distortion produced by decent s/s amps?
    I have not but would expect a very different result. First of all, you remain stuck in the static world. Circuits, especially those with negative feedback, perform differently in the dynamic world than the static and averaged world - where such measurement are taken. Instantaneous distortion can be many multiples of steady state.

  22. #22
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    ...
    What I assert is that using the online distortion test I posted about years ago, I could not resolve lower than 2% harmonic distortion. I invited you to challenge your preconceptions and you declined.
    ...
    I'm willing: lend me you VTLs for a couple of months.

  23. #23
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I'm willing: lend me you VTLs for a couple of months.
    It is sad that while the internet has brought us together from afar, we can rarely share the experience together.

    I know there are some guys here who have been able to meet each other and share listening. I was able to visit a retired engineer from AA during a business trip. I ended up leaving way after midnight and had an early appointment the next day. There just wasn't enough time.

    BTW, the amps were shipped strapped together on a pallet via trucking line. They weigh more than I do.

  24. #24
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    It is sad that while the internet has brought us together from afar, we can rarely share the experience together.

    I know there are some guys here who have been able to meet each other and share listening. I was able to visit a retired engineer from AA during a business trip. I ended up leaving way after midnight and had an early appointment the next day. There just wasn't enough time.

    BTW, the amps were shipped strapped together on a pallet via trucking line. They weigh more than I do.
    I'd love to hear 'em. You have a standing invitation to visit whenever you're in this neck of the woods, BTW.

  25. #25
    Charm Thai™
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    Interested to see your thoughts after you try it out harley.

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