Pro Amps I.e. Crown, Qsc

[E-Stat]

That said, I am very interested in hearing what you are referring to in the above discussion about Joules and explosive dynamics.

So, in Carmina, what exactly am I listening for?

My reference is the 1981 Telarc version with the ASO and Chorus. I confess bias to this version because my long term friend, mentor, and ex-TAS reviewer JWC has been a bass in the chorus for thirty years.

There are two sets of passages that exhibit huge contrasts, both containing steep initial attacks and abrupt returns to silence. Using Sound Forge as a visual guide, even my Telarc Rite of Spring does not contain such massive swings. The first one is about six minutes into In Taverna. The chorus refrain of Wafna, wafna! will knock you off your seat live.

Here is a Sound Forge representation:


The last minute or so is worth hearing as well. The second passage is found in the last couple of minutes at the end of Fortune No.25. Again, the impact is heightened by the return to silence. Here again is Sound Forge:



Here's another one just for grins. This rates at least two pampers on the HP scale. It is fromYim Hok-Man's Marco Polo recording of Chinese drum music.



Hearing this on the Grand Exoticas is a joy to behold.

Enjoy your comparisons!

rw

[kexodusc]

My reference is the 1981 Telarc version with the ASO and Chorus. I confess bias to this version because my long term friend, mentor, and ex-TAS reviewer JWC has been a bass in the chorus for thirty years.

Ahh, the ASO...Probably what I miss most about Atlanta...I no doubt have had the priviledge of witnessing your friend perform.

[E-Stat]

Ahh, the ASO...Probably what I miss most about Atlanta...I no doubt have had the priviledge of witnessing your friend perform.

And then you journeyed to Parts Unknown. How is the weather this time of year in PU?

rw

[kexodusc]

And then you journeyed to Parts Unknown. How is the weather this time of year in PU?

rw

Err...yeah, I really should update that now that I know where I am...

Getting damn cold fast. NB, Canada is a long way away from Georgia...in soooo many ways. Not all of them bad.

[E-Stat]

Getting damn cold fast. NB, Canada is a long way away from Georgia...in soooo many ways. Not all of them bad.

I'm sad to say I've never traveled to New Brunswick (my wife has once). All my other trips to Canada, however, have been quite enjoyable. I've been to Ontario and Alberta - but not NB nor BC. Sometime, I need to consult RGA about Vancouver.

Last month I hiked Glacier Park in Montana and crossed the border and visited Waterton Park. Climbed Bear's Hump. Gorgeous.




rw

[nightflier]

E.,

OK, I don't have the 1981 Telarc, but I do have a couple of others, including the Donald Runnicles/Atlanta Symphony Orchestra SACD, so that should do. Now, I know the passages well, a short section of In Taverna is actually on one of my home-made eval CD's that I bring to the stores to audition stuff.

So what would be some of obvious the differences between a high-joule amp and a lesser one? I did a quick pass last night with the finale ('cause it's nice & short) comparing my HCA-2 amps against an obviously less powerfull unit, a NAD C320BEE integrated. While there are differences, I'm not sure what was listening for, last night.

[E-Stat]

So what would be some of obvious the differences between a high-joule amp and a lesser one? I did a quick pass last night with the finale ('cause it's nice & short) comparing my HCA-2 amps against an obviously less powerfull unit, a NAD C320BEE integrated. While there are differences, I'm not sure what was listening for, last night.

First of all, the differences may fairly be considered subtle, not "obvious" to all. That depends upon your passion for getting the music right. I've come to learn that the best path to achieving wide dynamic range is to plumb the depths, not the height of the scale. Keep the peak levels matched as best you can. Here are real questions: (1) which amp takes you down further in level with content? and (2) which amp is more at ease whilst delivering a FFF crescendo? The most powerful passages should ultimately be rendered with absolute control and grace. While Class T switching amps run digitally, the Audio Research 105.2, for example, still has 144,000 uf of capacitance in its powr supply. The need for power supply stiffness is not limited to conventional class A or class AB amps.

It is here where better cables of all sorts can help achieve a "blacker" background. There is missing detail to be found in most systems, not from the top, but from the bottom of the dynamic scale. Which when salvaged, increases the overall range. Such higher resolution systems remove a somewhat tinny "haze" over the entire image - resulting in a sound that initially seems darker and somehow rolled off. What's missing is not more detailed musical content, but a subtle glare cast over the music. The highs become better defined and more delicate once that mist has been lifted.

rw

[theaudiohobby]

E-stat, your last post omitted a smaller matter called efficiency, The audio research NEEDS a larger capacitive storage because of much larger losses both in the PSU and amplification stages. The two approaches are an antithesis of each other, one uses brute force and other is much more nimble (efficient).

[nightflier]

"...The most powerful passages should ultimately be rendered with absolute control and grace..."

I hear the word "control" a lot in reviews, but I'm not sure I'm getting it. I'm not sitting in front of my speakers right now, so I can't verify what I'm describing, but I don't think either the HCA-2 or the NAD have trouble with control. The HCA-2 has noticeably deeper, more powerfull bass, but coming up the scale, both amps seem to be able to do quite well above ~100Hz. or so. Even with sudden FF passages.

"...can help achieve a "blacker" background."

Colors have always confused me. I realize that to express music in words is difficult, but what do you mean by "blacker" ?

"There is missing detail to be found in most systems, not from the top, but from the bottom of the dynamic scale. Which when salvaged, increases the overall range."

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a correction. If there is missing material as a result of the system, it should be missing all across the scale. Aren't we simply saying that our ears are not as capable of discerning the missing material in the upper frequencies - but that it is still missing? True, some equipment will be able to play lower bass, but I don't think that is what we are referring to here, in the discussion of explossive dynamics. In short, to come up from a lower frequency will be more apparent, but that says nothing about the manner in which said amp climbs up the scale. This is what I think we are talking about with "control," but I am having a hard time hearing it.

"Such higher resolution systems remove a somewhat tinny "haze" over the entire image - resulting in a sound that initially seems darker and somehow rolled off."

Now I'm confused again. I don't hear any "haze," although I do hear that the NAD is warmer by a tad. It seems less crisp and less detailed.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I am really trying to quantify some of these things I'm supposed to be hearing. The HCA-2 should be vastly superior to the the NAD, especially considering the differences in rated specs, but I haven't found vast differences, and I have usually used other terms to describe them.

Has anyone else done some side-by-side testing of two amps after reading this discussion? I suppose a side-by-side test of a pro audio amp and a home audio amp, would be appropriate here.

[E-Stat]

I hear the word "control" a lot in reviews, but I'm not sure I'm getting it. I'm not sitting in front of my speakers right now, so I can't verify what I'm describing, but I don't think either the HCA-2 or the NAD have trouble with control.

Everything is relative. The differences may not be significant between those two units.

"...can help achieve a "blacker" background." Colors have always confused me. I realize that to express music in words is difficult, but what do you mean by "blacker" ?

A lower noise floor, especially evident at the lowest levels. At first blush, everything sounds somewhat darker or rolled off.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a correction. If there is missing material as a result of the system, it should be missing all across the scale. Aren't we simply saying that our ears are not as capable of discerning the missing material in the upper frequencies - but that it is still missing?

I am referring to a masking effect where musical detail is lost or blurred in the relative noise floor.

In short, to come up from a lower frequency will be more apparent, but that says nothing about the manner in which said amp climbs up the scale. This is what I think we are talking about with "control," but I am having a hard time hearing it.

The control or authority I refer to is not really a frequency specific sort of thing. An authoritative amp exhibits an utter sense of ease in the upper octaves as well as the lower ones. I too, find it difficult to sense without a point of comparison. The first amp I heard demonstrate that quality was a C-J Premier One back in 1980. I was recently rereading a TAS from 1978 for JWC's report on the first Telarc Recording. As I was thumbing through it, I also found a review of the Dynaco ST-416 amp and C-100 storage box. Following the lead by long term Dyna modifier Frank Van Alstine, Dynaco offered an outboard box containing an additional 100,000 uf of capacitance. The review compared the amp without and with one, two, or three of the C-100s. They opined that one was a definite improvement, two seemed to help at the highest levels, but three was no better than two.

Now I'm confused again. I don't hear any "haze," although I do hear that the NAD is warmer by a tad. It seems less crisp and less detailed.

Here I'm referring to the benefits offered by aftermarket power cords or power regenerators. Recently, I bought some Harmonic Technology power cords for the monoblocks in the main system and moved the existing cords to my vintage music system and to the HT. In the vintage system, I am hearing a darker, clearer presentation rendered with more subtle detail. Imagine two pictures, one that contains a bit of glare from the sun and the other not. The details of the one containing glare are less well defined while the other photo is crystal clear.

The HCA-2 should be vastly superior to the the NAD, especially considering the differences in rated specs, but I haven't found vast differences, and I have usually used other terms to describe them.

Well, "vast differences" are not what you are likely to find between those two amps. Other than power, I've yet to draw any direct correlations to quality musical reproduction and rated specs that are alleged to draw qualitative distinctions such as THD.

rw

[pelly3s]

i read the word blacker and the only thing that comes to mind is spinal tap with their black album in which there is "none more black"