Pass Labs X150.5 Audition.......Almost

[Jack in Wilmington]

You would first have to define what you mean by league? Because Bryston, Avre and Krell certainly make amps in that same league...whatever it may be.

I guess what I mean by a league is a level of enjoyment. Like minor league baseball compared to major league baseball. The parts that make up the whole are better and the enjoyment increases. Like I said also, there are way too many variables to come up with a set up measurements to rate such things. That's why I asked for opinions as many of the guys have had different makes of amps.

[frenchmon]

I guess what I mean by a league is a level of enjoyment. Like minor league baseball compared to major league baseball. The parts that make up the whole are better and the enjoyment increases. Like I said also, there are way too many variables to come up with a set up measurements to rate such things. That's why I asked for opinions as many of the guys have had different makes of amps.

Most hi end manufacturers make several amps...preamps... and so on, in different audio classes. You have entry level all the way up to the highest you can go. So when you talk about the very highest you can go, take Pass Labs Xs300 which retails at $85,000 a pair. And take the Audionet Max mono block amps which retails for $26k a pair. You would think the Pass Labs was in a different league, but not so. The price does not always dictate what class or league a component is in. And there are always trade offs on what different gear in the same calss can do....its always a trade off....no one component is perfect at what it can do. Here is a review of a few amps including the Pass and Audionet among a few others....mind you, its about a few years old, but you get the idea of what I am getting at. All the amps perform in the same league and class. Scroll down to where it says AMP II MAX monoblocks vs. other mighty power amps


and you can see what the finding were in a shoot out....Pass Labs included.

Innerworld Audio - Audionet Amp Max Monoblocks

[harley .guy07]

Well I read the test and they tested a X350.5 against the Audionet. I am surprised that they did not choose something form Passes XA or XS series. The X350.5 is a $11,500 dollar amplifier not a $85,000 XS series from which you mentioned. I will say that I would have liked to see a XA, or XS go against the Audionet and see how the outcome would be and I would bet it would be different. The X.5 series are now Passes lowest line of amps and even though they are some of the best in their price category the XA and XS represent a even higher end sound that is a true reference. Even thought I doubt I will ever get past the x.5 series if a person is going to spend this kind of money on gear and wants a true reference comparison at least they can get the best from these companies and compare them. In fact it looks like the other brands represented were the top or near top models from these companies but not the Pass. I just don't think this is a real reference comparison. iTs kind of like of Ferrari took there top car and did performance comparisons against the Porsche Boxster, well yeah the Ferrari will come out on top. Now if Ferrari tested their top car against a Porsche 918 then that would be a true reference test.

On a different note I just heard from another member from another forum that Pass Labs is introducing another series to their amps lines called the X.8 series. It would seem that this series is going to take some of the technology and sound from the XA, and XS series but have the power output of the X.5 series. It will bridge the gap between the X.5 and XA/XS series price wise as well. I do not know yet how much difference there will be between the X.8 and X.5 but they will start selling them sometime in 2014

[Jack in Wilmington]

Well I read the test and they tested a X350.5 against the Audionet. I am surprised that they did not choose something form Passes XA or XS series. The X350.5 is a $11,500 dollar amplifier not a $85,000 XS series from which you mentioned. I will say that I would have liked to see a XA, or XS go against the Audionet and see how the outcome would be and I would bet it would be different. The X.5 series are now Passes lowest line of amps and even though they are some of the best in their price category the XA and XS represent a even higher end sound that is a true reference. Even thought I doubt I will ever get past the x.5 series if a person is going to spend this kind of money on gear and wants a true reference comparison at least they can get the best from these companies and compare them. In fact it looks like the other brands represented were the top or near top models from these companies but not the Pass. I just don't think this is a real reference comparison. iTs kind of like of Ferrari took there top car and did performance comparisons against the Porsche Boxster, well yeah the Ferrari will come out on top. Now if Ferrari tested their top car against a Porsche 918 then that would be a true reference test.

On a different note I just heard from another member from another forum that Pass Labs is introducing another series to their amps lines called the X.8 series. It would seem that this series is going to take some of the technology and sound from the XA, and XS series but have the power output of the X.5 series. It will bridge the gap between the X.5 and XA/XS series price wise as well. I do not know yet how much difference there will be between the X.8 and X.5 but they will start selling them sometime in 2014

I read that also Harley, and that could mean that some people will be trading up and there could be more .5s on the used market, which is a good thing. Mark at Reno HiFi is taking trade-ins from what I've read, and giving full value if your unit is 4 months old or newer.

[frenchmon]

Well I read the test and they tested a X350.5 against the Audionet. I am surprised that they did not choose something form Passes XA or XS series. The X350.5 is a $11,500 dollar amplifier not a $85,000 XS series from which you mentioned. I will say that I would have liked to see a XA, or XS go against the Audionet and see how the outcome would be and I would bet it would be different. The X.5 series are now Passes lowest line of amps and even though they are some of the best in their price category the XA and XS represent a even higher end sound that is a true reference. Even thought I doubt I will ever get past the x.5 series if a person is going to spend this kind of money on gear and wants a true reference comparison at least they can get the best from these companies and compare them. In fact it looks like the other brands represented were the top or near top models from these companies but not the Pass. I just don't think this is a real reference comparison. iTs kind of like of Ferrari took there top car and did performance comparisons against the Porsche Boxster, well yeah the Ferrari will come out on top. Now if Ferrari tested their top car against a Porsche 918 then that would be a true reference test.

On a different note I just heard from another member from another forum that Pass Labs is introducing another series to their amps lines called the X.8 series. It would seem that this series is going to take some of the technology and sound from the XA, and XS series but have the power output of the X.5 series. It will bridge the gap between the X.5 and XA/XS series price wise as well. I do not know yet how much difference there will be between the X.8 and X.5 but they will start selling them sometime in 2014

Hi Harley...I got the wrong amp.

The xs-300 is $85k...not the Xs-350.5...my bad

Reno Hi-Fi

But with all that, you focused on the review rather than my point which is All those amps are in the same league as far as hifi is concerned. All those amps are great! All those amps have the highest and best engineers, all those amps are built like tanks. All those amps have the highest performance. None of the amps are perfect. It becomes a matter of system matching and preference at that level. Sure you are biased towards Pass Labs, thats understandable but there are trade offs with each and every one of those amps. I would be happy with any one of those amps. And yes....Just because an amp cost $100k and another amp cost $75k they can be considered in the same league.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Hi Harley...I got the wrong amp.

The xs-300 is $85k...not the Xs-350.5...my bad

Reno Hi-Fi

But with all that, you focused on the review rather than my point which is All those amps are in the same league as far as hifi is concerned. All those amps are great! All those amps have the highest and best engineers, all those amps are built like tanks. All those amps have the highest performance. None of the amps are perfect. It becomes a matter of system matching and preference at that level. Sure you are biased towards Pass Labs, thats understandable but there are trade offs with each and every one of those amps. I would be happy with any one of those amps. And yes....Just because an amp cost $100k and another amp cost $75k they can be considered in the same league.

I don't think that you are being fair to Harley by calling him biased towards Pass Labs. That would indicate that he can't find any other amps appealing besides Pass, and that is not what he has indicated so far. Should we say you are biased towards Vincent, certainly not. You can still appreciate the products that other companies produce. Now our old friend RGA we could probably say was biased towards Audio Note.

[harley .guy07]

I am not biased toward anything, I just know that for the sound character that I have searched for for many years the Pass designs seem to fit this sound the best out of what I have heard. And you are right when it gets up to that price area a difference of $50,000 does not guaranty better. But my point is that the reviewer should have stated that his reviews for for a certain price max and under and stated that there are better versions of Pass and Plinius designs out there that might be better than anything he had heard in that whole test by a far margin. i would think if I were to do a test like that I would set a price maximum and try to find the "reference" top level products up to the max price and if there were any that were not the best that particular company has to offer I would take note of that mentally and otherwise. I think for a audio reviewer it is a duty to notice and take note of things like this in a review as to not misinform potential customers of these companies of what they can get if they are looking for absolute reference price is no object audio products. I know that most or all of us here have our personal set limitations of how much we can spend on audio and keep everything else going and not be divorced and broke so most of this does not apply to us. I know I love my Pass amp and feel fortunate to be able to find one at a used/more affordable price and I might not ever see myself going up to the XA or XS level and that is fine with me because in my everyday life my X series does my music due diligence. I just think some reviewers don't realize that they have a duty to inform and educate people on products and when true reference products are called for in a review get true reference products and not entry level products facing reference products. That was all I was trying to say.

[frenchmon]

I am not biased toward anything, I just know that for the sound character that I have searched for for many years the Pass designs seem to fit this sound the best out of what I have heard.

Well that is biased Harley. Nothing wrong with that

And you are right when it gets up to that price area a difference of $50,000 does not guaranty better. But my point is that the reviewer should have stated that his reviews for for a certain price max and under and stated that there are better versions of Pass and Plinius designs out there that might be better than anything he had heard in that whole test by a far margin. i would think if I were to do a test like that I would set a price maximum and try to find the "reference" top level products up to the max price and if there were any that were not the best that particular company has to offer I would take note of that mentally and otherwise. I think for a audio reviewer it is a duty to notice and take note of things like this in a review as to not misinform potential customers of these companies of what they can get if they are looking for absolute reference price is no object audio products. I know that most or all of us here have our personal set limitations of how much we can spend on audio and keep everything else going and not be divorced and broke so most of this does not apply to us. I know I love my Pass amp and feel fortunate to be able to find one at a used/more affordable price and I might not ever see myself going up to the XA or XS level and that is fine with me because in my everyday life my X series does my music due diligence. I just think some reviewers don't realize that they have a duty to inform and educate people on products and when true reference products are called for in a review get true reference products and not entry level products facing reference products. That was all I was trying to say.

I agree...the guy should have been more up front with the reviews.

[frenchmon]

I don't think that you are being fair to Harley by calling him biased towards Pass Labs. That would indicate that he can't find any other amps appealing besides Pass, and that is not what he has indicated so far. Should we say you are biased towards Vincent, certainly not. You can still appreciate the products that other companies produce. Now our old friend RGA we could probably say was biased towards Audio Note.

Well yes I am biased towards Vincent some what. But that does not mean I cant find other amps that are just as good...because I have. I meant no disrespect.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Well yes I am biased towards Vincent some what. But that does not mean I cant find other amps that are just as good...because I have. I meant no disrespect.

According to the dictionary:

Biased is an inclination of temperament or outlook to present or hold a partial perspective and a refusal to consider the possible merits of alternative points of view.

You don't have a bias and neither does Harley. You may favor Vincent or Musical Fidelity or Music Hall.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Most hi end manufacturers make several amps...preamps... and so on, in different audio classes. You have entry level all the way up to the highest you can go. So when you talk about the very highest you can go, take Pass Labs Xs300 which retails at $85,000 a pair. And take the Audionet Max mono block amps which retails for $26k a pair. You would think the Pass Labs was in a different league, but not so. The price does not always dictate what class or league a component is in. And there are always trade offs on what different gear in the same calss can do....its always a trade off....no one component is perfect at what it can do. Here is a review of a few amps including the Pass and Audionet among a few others....mind you, its about a few years old, but you get the idea of what I am getting at. All the amps perform in the same league and class. Scroll down to where it says AMP II MAX monoblocks vs. other mighty power amps


and you can see what the finding were in a shoot out....Pass Labs included.

Innerworld Audio - Audionet Amp Max Monoblocks

Frenchmon, I was only comparing the amps that I've heard. The Krell Evolution 2250e, the Ayre V-5xe, and the Bryston 4B-SST2. These are all in the $8,000 to $5000 range.

[harley .guy07]

Frenchmon, I was only comparing the amps that I've heard. The Krell Evolution 2250e, the Ayre V-5xe, and the Bryston 4B-SST2. These are all in the $8,000 to $5000 range.

you are very right. My problem with this comparison was the fact that the person was comparing Audionet reference cream of the crop amps against amps that were not the best that these particular companies put out and most were not even in the same price class as the Audionet Mono blocks. If he would have put Pass XA mono blocks up against the Audionet amps then it would have been a much more realistic comparison. It would be the same kind of comparison if I took my Pass amp and compared it to an Emotiva XPA-2 or something like that, it would have power for sure but my Pass would stomp it otherwise. I just like comparisons that are fair to begin with.