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  1. #1
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    Cool Ordered my first tube electronics today

    I placed an order today for a Rogue Cronos Magnum Integrated Amp.-- http://www.rogueaudio.com/images/enl...CronosBack.jpg

    This is my first purchase of any kind of tube electronics so I am not really sure what to expect. I will be paring up the Rogue with my System- Audio Aura 1 speakers, Stello DA 100 Signature DAC, Stello CDT 100 Transport, Blue Marble Audio Speaker wire, Blue Marble Audio Digital Coaxial cable,Blue Marble Audio IC's, and a Rel R-528 Sub (currently using the Rel for H.T.). Power cords are WireWorld Aurora 5-2's and Pangea AC-9. Eventually I will add a power conditioner/surge protector.

    New speaker stands are also on the way as well, Sanus Euro Foundations 28" stands:
    Sanus - Euro Speaker Stands-Audio Advisor

    Any tube advice from you experienced tube guys would be most welcome.

    LeRoy
    Last edited by LeRoy; 01-04-2012 at 08:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    > Any tube advice from you experienced tube guys would be most welcome.

    Congrats on your purchase.
    Two suggestions:
    * Try not to judge the new amp until it has broken-in. Some people claim electronics do not need any break-in phase, but I have have noticed audible changes over the first 50 to 200 hours. The first 30 seconds of a newly built amp are absolutely horrid.
    * Install the amp where it has adequate air circulation. Allow at least 10" vertical clearance if there is a shelf above it. There's no immediate damage if you do not do this, you'll just shorten the life of it.

    Regards

    A rebuilt Heathkit AA-151 w/o tone controls:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ordered my first tube electronics today-heathkit_pp.jpg.w560h420.jpg  

  3. #3
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    Congrats! I don't think you will be disappointed. Looks like a nice unit and rogue has a good rep.

    What I cannot find is a description of it's circuit. How does this amp work? Is it Tube Pre and SS output? If yes, this is a pleasing combination.

    I have a Hybrid Power Amp which is tube input and ss out.

    Anyway, the only real negative comments I could find was that it can be grainy and that it lacks a bit on the bottom end, but that does not mean it won't sound good or you won't love it.

    As Blue_z said, let it play for a while. You want at least 50 hours on the tubes alone. The amp will get better after a few hundred hours and level out.

    Hey Blue, beautiful Heathkit. Takes me back to the days of watching my brother building them on the kitchen table. My first stereo was a Heathkit integrated/receiver he built for me.

  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Some fine day I`ll try another tube preamp. I recently sold my all-tube Sonic Frontiers Line 1 which was a notoriously solid state-line component. Next time I`ll go for something with a more traditionally tube reputation.

    In fact I`m open to suggestion, (the Rogue?), but I`ve got to have excellent resolution, tight bass, and remote control (!!!). A late model Conrad Johnson for instance, if I could afford it, or ... ?

  5. #5
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Smile

    Congrats! Once you go tube you never go back (except for Feanor).
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
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    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
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  6. #6
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    Thanks guys...

    So, when I get the tubes in place and turn it on for the first time should I simply leave it on for 8-10 days to allow for burn in or should I go ahead and put a disc on repeat and walk away for 8-10 days?

    By the way I did order it with a remote too.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_z View Post
    > Any tube advice from you experienced tube guys would be most welcome.

    Congrats on your purchase.
    Two suggestions:
    * Try not to judge the new amp until it has broken-in. Some people claim electronics do not need any break-in phase, but I have have noticed audible changes over the first 50 to 200 hours. The first 30 seconds of a newly built amp are absolutely horrid.
    * Install the amp where it has adequate air circulation. Allow at least 10" vertical clearance if there is a shelf above it. There's no immediate damage if you do not do this, you'll just shorten the life of it.

    Regards

    A rebuilt Heathkit AA-151 w/o tone controls:
    Ya, I will keep the Integrated on the top shelf for proper ventilation.

    Nice pic on the Heathkit....what kind of tubes are in the AA-151?

  8. #8
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    Hi BR

    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Congrats! Once you go tube you never go back (except for Feanor).

    I still have not forgotten about the tube dac from V.A. I have heard a Belles Tubed Pre with a Lektor tubed CDP and man that was one of the very best musical parings I ever heard. So, if I feel like the Stello Signature DAC is not giving me what I want then I will be looking at an option for a tubed DAC.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeRoy View Post
    Ya, I will keep the Integrated on the top shelf for proper ventilation.
    Perfect!
    Nice pic on the Heathkit....what kind of tubes are in the AA-151?
    Thanks.
    GZ34/5AR4 rectifier; 6AN8 for splitters; EL84/6BQ5 power tubes.
    About 14 watts per channel.

    I now prefer vintage equipment/circuits over typical modern amps primarily because vintage uses tube rectification, whereas modern amps use solid-state rectification. Valve rectifiers provide a built-in soft-start or slow rise of the B+ high voltage, which can increase power tube life. (Also, one study revealed that tube rectification produced less hash noise, with TV damper diodes providing the cleanest DC output.) With SS rectification such as your new amp, allow the amp to warm up at least 30 seconds before playing anything. Even after break-in, a tube amp needs about 10-20 minutes of warmup to stabilize and sound its best.

    Also turn off the volume before powering off the amp. This avoids something called "cathode stripping", which shortens the life of the power tubes. Until the capacitors in the power supply are drained, there will be audio output even though the filaments are no longer receiving AC power, and this type of operation of the amp allegedly can deplete the cathodes.

    Re break-in: use the amp for background music or serious listening. It might sound a bit harsh or fatiguing, so reserve judgement until it has had at least 50 to 200 hours of play time.
    Last edited by blue_z; 01-05-2012 at 11:31 PM.

  10. #10
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Some fine day I`ll try another tube preamp. I recently sold my all-tube Sonic Frontiers Line 1 which was a notoriously solid state-line component. Next time I`ll go for something with a more traditionally tube reputation.

    In fact I`m open to suggestion, (the Rogue?), but I`ve got to have excellent resolution, tight bass, and remote control (!!!). A late model Conrad Johnson for instance, if I could afford it, or ... ?
    Grant Fidelity. Ian is a recording engineer and used Bryston in the studio for 20+ years. And the Rita, for example, will have no problem with a Maggie panel.

    Or if you just can't go all the way the PM 150 monoblocks - 300watts into your 4 ohm Magnepan with grip out the wazoo might do the trick - and they're not even expensive - and you already have a preamp.

  11. #11
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeRoy View Post
    Thanks guys...

    So, when I get the tubes in place and turn it on for the first time should I simply leave it on for 8-10 days to allow for burn in or should I go ahead and put a disc on repeat and walk away for 8-10 days?

    By the way I did order it with a remote too.
    Don't be silly about this - listen to the thing. Electronic gear has no actual "motion" - Break in makes sense for speakers - like brake pads on a car or shoes. This a physical material - I have had a pair of speakers that made rather loud popping sounds like popcorn for the first 10 hours and a couple times over the next 20 - that is very audible break in - and this from a lowly $250 set of B&W speakers.

    Tube Electronics can take some time - tubes themselves undergo some noise occasionally and certain capacitors like Black Gates are known to have some time needed on them - but to me it's still overblown because even these amps still sound good out of the box - they may sound better over time but it should still sound pretty decent.

    Part of the fun of the hobby side to audiophilia is the note taking aspects - you can report to us about the break-in - was it a big deal or not so much what did you notice during their recommended break in time - if anything. Just playing them when not listening to it seems like a waste of electricity to me.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the feedback RGA. I simply recall reading a bunch of reviews where the reviewer stated the plug in the tube whatever for a few days and walk away to allow for break-in and therefore a better listening experience.

    Actually, I am pretty excited about the whole thing as I've always wanted tube electronics of one kind or another.

  13. #13
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Grant Fidelity. Ian is a recording engineer and used Bryston in the studio for 20+ years. And the Rita, for example, will have no problem with a Maggie panel.

    Or if you just can't go all the way the PM 150 monoblocks - 300watts into your 4 ohm Magnepan with grip out the wazoo might do the trick - and they're not even expensive - and you already have a preamp.
    A preamp would be were I start -- and maybe finish too.

    As you know, my belief, (not quite confiction), is that the virtue of tubes is their filtering ability more than their amplication ability, so I maybe get a sufficient dose of the with just the preamp.

    Seems to me that Grant Fidelity is starting is starting to go up-market. Cheapest tube preamp is $900 which isn't necessarilty out of my range, but everything else is a lot more.

  14. #14
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    I would never walk too far away from my tube gear and not for very long. When I'm not listening lt's switched off. Leaving a tube amp on constantly only shortens tube life and wastes electricity.

    If you've been playing your amp and turn it off it's best to wait at least 5 minutes before turning it on again. I allow my tubes to warm for 5 minutes or longer before playing.

    Switching on order:

    Turn on source - wait 10 seconds - turn on preamp - wait 10 seconds - turn on power amp

    Switching off order:

    reverse of switching on order

  15. #15
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    I'll be interested to hear how you like the Rogue, they have quite a fan base on another forum. Units may be different depending on parts and brand but my gear takes a good 30 minutes or more of being on before it sounds it's best, I will notice better bass response and sort of an opening up of the sound stage as it warms. If you have a good memory put on a CD and let it play then after the end play the first track again to hear the difference. This warm up can actually be a drag sometimes if time is a premium.

    I agree with Poultrygeist, tubes have a limited life so why burn away a week of it without listening. And the experience of knowing if the unit changed over time.

    Feanor, before buying tubes again you may want to investigate preamps by companies who build Class D amps. I've recently have been doing some looking into Class D and I get the impression although it's very accurate there are attributes to the music like the benefits of tube gear. Harley seems to really like the NuForce he bought. Another suggestion may be to audition a preamp by Audio by Van Alstine, his gear is said to be "musical" on other forums. Another interesting thing is he uses tubes in some of his gear but it is only in the voltage area as Blue_z was talking about.

  16. #16
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Hi LeRoy! When do you expect the Rogue to be in? I need to get that package to you as soon as possible. When I first got my tubes They sounded horrible, but I continued to play through, and the sound increasingly improved. I think it can be that way for new tubes. Also I have a surge protector that turns on all my gear in order. IF you still have any SS amps around, its kinda fun to go back and forth to listen to the difference. Also, take note of the name of the tubes that Rogue uses as well. You may want to do some tube rolling. I have a buddy up in Cincinnati that purchased the Cronos Magnum last year and he loves it loves it. He has it going though his AV receiver when watching movies and switches it off the AV receiver for two channel. Phono imput is the weakest link in that amp. You may want to join the Rogue family over at Audio-Asylum where there is a loyal following of Rogue lovers. They will have the best info for you about your new toy.



    Cheers.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 01-07-2012 at 09:42 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  17. #17
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I'll be interested to hear how you tubes have a limited life so why burn away a week of it without listening. And the experience of knowing if the unit changed over time.

    . Another suggestion may be to audition a preamp by Audio by Van Alstine, his gear is said to be "musical" on other forums. Another interesting thing is he uses tubes in some of his gear but it is only in the voltage area as Blue_z was talking about.
    The tube gear from AVA is very musical, especially his new gear. His hybrid tube gear is the most musical giving the best of both tubes and SS. In addition, tube life is very long in the hybrid gear as the tubes do not see much voltage. Tube life will be in the thousands of hours.

    I will be doing a review of the new Van Alstine Preamp and DAC sometime in the next 2 weeks. Frank wants me to take home both and give a review. I recently did a review of his new 600R amp.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
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  18. #18
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    I read your review on the 600R, I was planning to try one, I guess I can let the cat out of the bag, I saw he took back a 400R and jumped on it for the discount and before prices go up when the line goes to silver faceplate. It will be interesting to see if is an improvement over my MV60's.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I read your review on the 600R, I was planning to try one, I guess I can let the cat out of the bag, I saw he took back a 400R and jumped on it for the discount and before prices go up when the line goes to silver faceplate. It will be interesting to see if is an improvement over my MV60's.
    I saw that you were interested in one on the AC forum. I don't think that you will be disappointed. Plus, if you don't like it, he has a 30 day return policy. That's a great deal that you got there. I would love to have one. Maybe next year!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    I would never walk too far away from my tube gear and not for very long. When I'm not listening lt's switched off. Leaving a tube amp on constantly only shortens tube life and wastes electricity.

    If you've been playing your amp and turn it off it's best to wait at least 5 minutes before turning it on again. I allow my tubes to warm for 5 minutes or longer before playing.

    Switching on order:

    Turn on source - wait 10 seconds - turn on preamp - wait 10 seconds - turn on power amp

    Switching off order:

    reverse of switching on order
    After reading the feedback in this post..it's clear I should stick around during the operation of the unit. Thanks for the info on following a sequence for on/off operation in order to extend the tube life.

    Leroy

  21. #21
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    Mr P. - I will be sure to post my thoughts on the Rogue once I get it into play. I might be getting it in before CES begins but there is also the possibility that it might arrive after CES. Thanks for your input Mr. P.

    Frenchmon- I plan to do some tube rolling in the future but not sure how soon I am going to want to scratch that itch. I think I need to get my ears and brain familiar with the whole tube sound for a period of time before I start trying to change things up. Thanks for the tip in joining up with A.A.

  22. #22
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Oh..yes, Its better to listen to your new tubes for a while...at least for 6 months, you might actually like the stock tubes. And then if you want to tweek the sound, switch them out.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  23. #23
    Forum Regular bajaed's Avatar
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    I've have had my Cronus Magnum since June and love it. Tons of power and the sound has that 'WOW" factor. A great combination of warmth with accuracy and punch.

    Setting bias is easy and all four output tubes have stayed at 35 mA, no adjustment needed in almost 8 months.

    I have not been motivated to roll yet because it sounds so good, but I'm going to try it to see how the sound changes. The guys at Rogue can suggest some tubes but I would wait at least 6 months. They told me a change of the center 12AU7 Preamp tube makes the biggest difference.

    Happy to answer any questions that I'm qualified to. The good news is that the factory is very helpful if you need anything.

    Hey Frenchmon, how you doin? When are you going to audition those Vapor Audio speakers?

  24. #24
    Forum Regular bajaed's Avatar
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    BTW, when I was looking for the best buy in an integrated tube amp in the 2k price range, the Rogue Cronus Magnum was the #1 recommendation by a wide margin at nearly every AV site I visited.

  25. #25
    Currently seeking Sansui Registered Member
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    Tube vs Sansui?

    Hello all, Im wondering what would be the difference between a tube system and my Sansui G-8000. I love my power and clarity of the Sansui but have yet to hear a system such as the Rouge Crono Magnum. (Health Kit)?

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