New Class D Audio Complete Amplifiers

[Ajani]

It is going to be a few months before I can buy it, probably during the summer unless the tax man is good to me.

Don't worry, I'm patient

I actually loaned out my headphone rig (in my signature) since Christmas to my little brother. So I can wait a few months for your review.

[blackraven]

Having just bought a used sub and now bidding on a vintage Tube Tuner, my wife would not be too happy if I dropped $700 on an amp.

[Poultrygeist]

I have a gain control on my Aric preamp and it's a PITA to adjust.

I do think a tube preamp with the class d is the way to go. If I use a ss pre with my class d board amp it doesn't compete with the MW SET but if I add a tube pre it gets a lot closer.

[Feanor]

I have a gain control on my Aric preamp and it's a PITA to adjust.

I do think a tube preamp with the class d is the way to go. If I use a ss pre with my class d board amp it doesn't compete with the MW SET but if I add a tube pre it gets a lot closer.

I'm thinking that I might try another tube preamp in conjunction with my Class D Audio amp. I used a tube preamp before but it didn't have typical tube sound so there were fewer benefits.

[blackraven]

I use the Grant Fidelity DAC-11 as a preamp and DAC with my CDA-254 and have used the Maverick D-1 (which has a more tube like and warmer sound than the DAC-11) with it as well. It's a good combination. Even my Dayton DTA-100a amp sounds much better when paired with the Maverick.

Feanor, I would consider an AVA T-8 preamp. Its all tube and is affordable. I wish I had bought it instead of the AVA Ultra II hybrid preamp. The T-8 has this nice romantic sound.

[Poultrygeist]

This Bottlehead Foreplay preamp can be found on A'gon for under $400 but it may go for as little as $350. I paid that for mine. There's nothing for twice the price that can come close. It's point to point rather than pcb which makes it simple to service or modify. The Bottlehead builders are an anally retentive bunch so you get very high build quality for their over the top efforts. The joy for them is in the build so they lose money on a sale just to finance another build.

[Ajani]

The Bottlehead builders are an anally retentive bunch so you get very high build quality for their over the top efforts. The joy for them is in the build so they lose money on a sale just to finance another build.

Then they are a really silly bunch of people. No need to make over-the-top profits, but HiFi is not a charity, they should make a reasonable return on their investments.

[Poultrygeist]

Lots of guys practice catch and release.

[blackraven]

That bottlehead preamp looks interesting. It looks like something to keep in mind for the future for my system in my basement or for my son.

[Poultrygeist]

BR,

It's obvious that you've never heard a Bottlehead.

[Ajani]

Lots of guys practice catch and release.

Sure. When they're fishing, but generally not as a means of running a business. The odd low price promotion to gain some market share and/or attention is one thing, but why should an established company lose money on sales? A quality product can be sold for a reaonable price.

I don't know about the finances at Bottlehead, but I have an issue when I hear persons complain about all the mainstream HiFi brands being overpriced then bring up brands run as a mere hobby of some millionaire (who could care less about making any profit on the hobby). I think those brands brainwash consumers into believing that they should not have to pay for a quality product, that manufacturers should make little or no profit on every sale. I don't support inflated prices, but persons should be able to make a decent return on their business. That is hard to do when others are giving away / underpricing goods for the hell of it...

[Poultrygeist]

Ajani,

You're not catching my drift. All Bottleheads are DIY kits and there's a huge community of support and loyalty unlike anything I've experienced in audio. Did you ever build a model airplane or car only to lose interest in it after you'd built it? There are many DIY'ers who just get off on the build. Bottlehead Inc. keeps introducing better mods and higher priced models to keep these guys happy. The basic designs have been around forever and are totally glitch free. Thousands have been built them and if you have any issues the support online is unreal. FWIW you have to be approved and with good reason to become a BH forum member. They really only cater to owners or prospective owners. Very cliquish.

The prices have steadily risen on their kits. 2a3 mono-block SET kits like mine go for around $1500. I was lucky to find mine on CL for $200 from a EE going through a divorce. The Foreplay Preamp is way better than the Conrad Johnson tube pre I had. They may look homespun but they kick serious ass.

[Ajani]

Ajani,

You're not catching my drift. All Bottleheads are DIY kits and there's a huge community of support and loyalty unlike anything I've experienced in audio. Did you ever build a model airplane or car only to lose interest in it after you'd built it? There are many DIY'ers who just get off on the build. Bottlehead Inc. keeps introducing better mods and higher priced models to keep these guys happy. The basic designs have been around forever and are totally glitch free. Thousands have been built them and if you have any issues the support online is unreal. FWIW you have to be approved and with good reason to become a BH forum member. They really only cater to owners or prospective owners. Very cliquish.

The prices have steadily risen on their kits. 2a3 mono-block SET kits like mine go for around $1500. I was lucky to find mine on CL for $200 from a EE going through a divorce. The Foreplay Preamp is way better than the Conrad Johnson tube pre I had. They may look homespun but they kick serious ass.

If what you're refering to are persons who sell a Bottlehead Amp that they assembled as a DIY project for a low price, that's cool. Nothing wrong with a DIYer building a kit, upgrading the parts and then selling it for a low price to finance a new project. The DIYer is just engaging in a hobby (not running a business).

However, If you mean that Bottlehead (the company) sells either their kits or completed amps (they will assemble them for you for a charge) at a loss, then that would not be good business.

[harley .guy07]

I have done more listening to my 440 and it seems to be really growing on me as to what this amp really brings to the table that other amps have not and at first I think I was in denial in to how good it really is since I could not think it could be possible at the price range it is in and thinking about other amps I have heard at price levels way above this amps and they don't hold a candle to it in any category. I will let you know as time goes by as to how burn in effects it or as I listen to different music and really get some time doing more critical listening.

[Enochrome]

I too will go the kit route as soon as I sell of my Jolida. I want to know that I have a good quality/ereputable product that I built myself that might even be unique by the looks. I have not decided yet to go the Decware Set Kit direction or the Bottlehead direction.

In relation to Ajani's last post: there is a guy on Audiogon selling a completed Bottlehead kit for $100 over the kit price itself, only because he had a professional build it for him for $250. That is lame, don't charge other people if your lazy arse cant build it yourself; consequently it has not sold.

What is your opinion on these kits for SET amp?

[blackraven]

Glad to hear that you are liking the amp Harley. I too have come to really appreciate my CDA-254 and my Grant Fidelity DAC-11 combo. In the last 5 hours of listening, the DAC-11 has broken in and warmed up. The combo with my Magnepan MMG's is very dynamic, transparent and resolving and I paid $180 for the used CDA-254.

[Ajani]

I have done more listening to my 440 and it seems to be really growing on me as to what this amp really brings to the table that other amps have not and at first I think I was in denial in to how good it really is since I could not think it could be possible at the price range it is in and thinking about other amps I have heard at price levels way above this amps and they don't hold a candle to it in any category. I will let you know as time goes by as to how burn in effects it or as I listen to different music and really get some time doing more critical listening.

Really good to know. Assuming I don't give up on audiophilia and settle down with a simple pair of active monitors, the SDS 440 or 470 are on my short list of potential amps.

[Feanor]

I use the Grant Fidelity DAC-11 as a preamp and DAC with my CDA-254 and have used the Maverick D-1 (which has a more tube like and warmer sound than the DAC-11) with it as well. It's a good combination. Even my Dayton DTA-100a amp sounds much better when paired with the Maverick.

Feanor, I would consider an AVA T-8 preamp. Its all tube and is affordable. I wish I had bought it instead of the AVA Ultra II hybrid preamp. The T-8 has this nice romantic sound.

The Van Alstine Transcendent Eight+ is doubtless a nice preamp. But new it's $1600 with remote control: used would be my only option.

[Poultrygeist]

For $1600 you get a printed circuit board?

[BoJonJovi]

I am in the same boat as the original poster. I have a few sets of Maggies around but nothing good to drive them. I came to this sight today as I had not visited in years probably. Anyway they are 4 ohm speakers and I just want something good to drive them and be done with it. I am in the 400 dollar price range as far as what I am willing to spend. I looked at the Yaqin as well as Sound Angel. have also been looking at old NAD's but I really do not have a clue as to what I really need to drive the Magnapans and get some great sound out of them. I am really not an audiophile but I do like good sound. Once I get get good sound I probably won't want to give my system a second thought for a few years. So again, looking for suggestions.

[Feanor]

I am in the same boat as the original poster. I have a few sets of Maggies around but nothing good to drive them. I came to this sight today as I had not visited in years probably. Anyway they are 4 ohm speakers and I just want something good to drive them and be done with it. I am in the 400 dollar price range as far as what I am willing to spend. I looked at the Yaqin as well as Sound Angel. have also been looking at old NAD's but I really do not have a clue as to what I really need to drive the Magnapans and get some great sound out of them. I am really not an audiophile but I do like good sound. Once I get get good sound I probably won't want to give my system a second thought for a few years. So again, looking for suggestions.

Welcome to AR Forums, BoJonJovi.

What do you mean by a "few sets of Maggies"? Do you have more than one pair? Which models?

Are you looking for an integrated amp or a power amp, (i.e. if the latter, you've got a preamp of some sort)?

[blackraven]

I am in the same boat as the original poster. I have a few sets of Maggies around but nothing good to drive them. I came to this sight today as I had not visited in years probably. Anyway they are 4 ohm speakers and I just want something good to drive them and be done with it. I am in the 400 dollar price range as far as what I am willing to spend. I looked at the Yaqin as well as Sound Angel. have also been looking at old NAD's but I really do not have a clue as to what I really need to drive the Magnapans and get some great sound out of them. I am really not an audiophile but I do like good sound. Once I get get good sound I probably won't want to give my system a second thought for a few years. So again, looking for suggestions.

With out knowing which model of Maggies you have, I would recommend at least 150 wpc at 4 ohm and high current if possible. You could get by with less power if you don't like to listen at moderately loud levels.

Consider one of the Class D Audio amp Kits if you are handy-

Class D Audio Build Your Own Class D Audio CDA Series Amplifier - Complete Kits - Amplifier Kits

Class D Audio CDA-254L Kit - Amplifier Kits

Class D Audio SDS-254 Kit - Amplifier Kits

These are just amps and you will need a preamp.

I am a Maggie person and have a pair of 1.6s but also a pair of MMG's that I run with a CDA-254 amp and a Grant Fidelity DAC-11 Preamp/DAC combo that sells for $325 and it sounds great. Deep controlled bass, air and transparency, good detail.

Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 D/A Converter

[BoJonJovi]

The more I read the more I have become interested in the Type D amps for their power/cost ratio. I talked to the Class D owner and he pretty much sold me. I am a small business owner so I really do try to deal with small businesses and the Class D Audio truly is a small mom/pop business in every sense. It is also in the USA so I liked that. The class D amps from Class D Audio seem like a no brainer for a plug, play and forget about for it for a few years or until you get the next wild hair in a few years like myself.Now I am thinking I may need a preamp to go with it. Any suggestions for an inexpensive preamp would be appreciated.

I find it interesting that sound audio has changed much over the past few years. Everything seems a little more efficient. After all my nosing around I am thinking of also buying a a small inexpensive class T amp and some small Infinity bookshelf speakers. For a couple hundred bucks that should make a very nice kitchen system. It has also led me to believe I need to clear out my SS Harmon Kardons and just go with these little Class D and Class T amps with good efficient speakers.
.
I do have three pairs of maggies. Two of the pairs are MG-1 so that is what this amp will be pushing. I want to thank everyone on this board that has led me to the Type D amps, I think it is very sound advice; no pun intended. I also thinnk I will be getting a little more than I had hoped for and be within what I was willing to spend. Again suggestions on an inexpensive preamp would be appreciated.

[blackraven]

. Again suggestions on an inexpensive preamp would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

I would strongly consider the Grant Fidelity DAC-11 Preamp/DAC combo. It is a tube preamp-dac. After it breaks in it has a very nice slightly warmer sound. Initially it was a little on the bright side of neutral. I have one and run it with the CDA-254 Class D audio amp. It has usb, analog and digital inputs. It can be used as a Preamp, DAC or both. For $325 it is a very good deal.

If you want to go cheaper, take a look at the Maverick TubeMagic DAC-1 which is also a tube Preamp/DAC for $200. But you need to get the tube upgrade for an additional $20 and you need to replace the on board op amp for $10 to get really good sound. The Op amp replacement is easy and takes about 1 minute. The is no soldering. I bought one for my son and it has excellent sound.

Maverick Audio - TubeMagic D1 DAC

If you want a nice cheap digital amp to run with some efficient speakers, take a look at the Dayton DTA 100a amp. It is perfect for efficient speakers 6-8ohms. I have one driving a pair of Monitor Audio S1 speakers and it sounds great. The S1's are rated at 89dB so they are not real efficient.

Dayton Audio DTA-100a Class-T Digital Amplifier 50 WPC Provides Power To Computer Speakers, Bookshelf Speakers, Headphones, And More! 300-383

[BoJonJovi]

Blackraven thanks for your input. I think you are right on the mark for what I am looking for and the price range. I am seeing what Tom can do a 254 with the connections but not the case. I think I would like to build my own cabinet but use his connections so I don't have to go on the hunt for them. I also like the Grant Fidelity DAC -11 and the Tube Magic DAC. I will probably go with the Tube Magic and rebuild per your suggestions. Depending on what Tom can do for me I should be under 5 bills for the two.
For the cheaper kitchen system I am thinking of the
Dayton Audio APA150 or Lepai Tripath Class-T with the
Klipsch Icon V VB-15 or
Infinity Primus Two-way 6 1/2-Inch Bookshelf or
Dayton B652 6-1/2
For a preamp I was thinking of the Gemini PA7000 but I am not sure it makes sense as I could get the Tube Magic for a 100 more.
Oh well, it is all fun.