New Class D Audio Complete Amplifiers

[Feanor]

It will be going into the Grant Audio DAC. I can go either way RCA or S/PDIF or digital. It will be traveling the Grant Audio/Class-D 254/Magnepan route. The Grant Audio has S/pdif, Digital Toslink, RCA, and USB. I just want sound connection/card that will maximize the sound without being a weak link.

Using the Grand Fidelity or any external DAC, the way to go is coaxial S/PDIF from the sound card to the DAC. I'm tempted to say that the M-Audio would work very well this way -- unless, BTW, you computer happens to have a S/PDIF output built in. In that case, try the built-in connector first to see if you like well enough.

According to some sources the coax connecting the computer to the DAC ought to very short, i.e. <1 foot, or very long i.e. 30+ feet. This is alleged to reduce jitter caused by any impedance mismatch the might exist between the two. I usse a 30' coax between my M-Audio Rev 71. and my "El Cheapo" DAC; it works very well indeed.

[BoJonJovi]

Oddly, when I got the Grant Audio and hooked it up to the computer via the digital output on the computer I got garble, then the sound card stopped working completely. I may need to just reset it. I recently built a different computer using a Sabertooth 990FX board. The sound from it was much better that the sound from the other computer I want to stream from; that actually kinda started this whole quest.
Currently I am running the system from my telephone, which is doing a surprisingly good job.
I will probably get the M-Audio and the difference can fund some other upgrade.

[BoJonJovi]

Blackraven
Do you have any thoughts, biases, opinions, preferences... on PC soundcards?

[Poultrygeist]

I'm not so up on all this but why would you need a fancy sound card if you had an outboard DAC?

[BoJonJovi]

I'm not so up on all this but why would you need a fancy sound card if you had an outboard DAC?

You make a good point.
My card went out this past week; Murphys law I guess. I am going to replace it, so I thought I may as well get a good one. I also seem to move computers form room to room and in and of use. The computer I plan to use for streaming is the one that went out but prior to it going out I could see a significance difference in it and the on board card on my newer mother board.
For 80 bucks M_Audio isn't that much more than an entry level card.

[Feanor]

I'm not so up on all this but why would you need a fancy sound card if you had an outboard DAC?

Don't know about "need", but the two most common methods of getting the digital signal to the DAC are (1) USB, and (2) S/PDIF.

Of the two, S/PDIF was considered the more jitter-free method. That's not so much the case any more with the advent of asynchronous USB methods which, however, vary in effectiveness and are still not prevalent in lower cost DACs.

Some motherboards come with S/PDIF output, some do not. Of those that do, some have only optical (Tosklink) connectors which are considered very jitter prone except for very short distances. Coax is better and maybe best over longer distances, i.e. 30+ feet. If your computer doesn't have built-in S/PDIF (or it doesn't work or you don't consider it good quality), then a soundcard with S/PDIF output is the other option.

[Poultrygeist]

I used a USB connection with my Audio GD NFB-11 DAC and now use a USB with my Marantz SA8004 SACD player which has an accessible DAC. Both work well without a fancy sound card through USB.

[harley .guy07]

I know a lot of people prefer the results of s/pdif over usb. In the last year or so it seems there have much more concentration on companies using usb for computer audio and the newer dacs have usb inputs that can handle up to 24 bit 192 klh operation for super high quality digital music. I could have seen usb being not the way to go a few years ago but now with the many options available I would say it would be more than up to the task.

[BoJonJovi]

Cool. I fiddle farted around with my card yesterday and reset it in a different slot and got it going. The Optical still does not work. I think I will forego the card for a week or two and concentrate on getting the amp up and running. I did get the Grant Audio DAC up and running yesterday and alll I can say is wow. What a huge difference it made to this system. It was being run from the questionable card through a very old HK AVR 20 (probably goes on ebay for about 20 bucks) and I have to say it sounded very good. IU have probably put better receivers in the goodwill box.
I am looking forward to getting this built out over the next week. I think Poultrygeist and Feanor have nurtured an addiction. I am continuing to read my book, Getting Started in Electronics. That has greatly added to my knowledge and is a pretty simple read. At least I know what a transformer, capacitor, and ohms really mean now :>) Can't say I really had a grasp on that two weeks ago. I have really appreciated the patience of you guys and your continuing input. I know my questions seem pretty odd and uneducated at times. I am working on that.

[blackraven]

Blackraven
Do you have any thoughts, biases, opinions, preferences... on PC soundcards?

I use to be up on all the latest and greatest computer gear as I have built a few high end systems for my son. The last system I built has a Creative Labs XFI Titanium Fatal1ty Champion series card that I picked up for a huge discount. It sounds great but is more for gaming.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series Sound Card w/ I/O | Creative Labs Online Store

This sound card is supposed to be excellet for audio with audiophile components-

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD PCIe Sound Card powered by THX TruStudio Pro | Creative Labs Online Store


The Asus Xonar Essence is excellent as well from what I have read-
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sound card

By the way, I am glad to hear that you like the Grant Fidelity. It is a bang for the buck piece of kit!

[BoJonJovi]

It dawned on me today that if I use the 254 as my amp then I have no port for a subwoofer. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[JoeE SP9]

It depends on the subwoofer. If your sub (s) has line level in and out connectors use them for the pass through from preamp to power amp.

[blackraven]

It dawned on me today that if I use the 254 as my amp then I have no port for a subwoofer. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Use the solid state output of the Grant Fidelity for your sub out. The Tube out and SS out are always on. Also, if your sub has speaker line inputs you can hook directly to the amp or daily chain off your speaker terminals on the speakers..

[BoJonJovi]

Use the solid state output of the Grant Fidelity for your sub out. The Tube out and SS out are always on. Also, if your sub has speaker line inputs you can hook directly to the amp or daily chain off your speaker terminals on the speakers..

Excellent!!
My sub is powered and it does have RCA and speaker line inputs. Would you suggest one over the other or does it matter much?

[blackraven]

Excellent!!
My sub is powered and it does have RCA and speaker line inputs. Would you suggest one over the other or does it matter much?

The sound will be the same which ever you use but there will be less wires with the RCA. You may need a Y splitter to connect to your sub though.

[Poultrygeist]

I would go with a line level connection to the sub. It's nice that the Grant has two outputs that can be used at the same time. I thought you had to select one or the other.

[BoJonJovi]

I would go with a line level connection to the sub. It's nice that the Grant has two outputs that can be used at the same time. I thought you had to select one or the other.

I finally got my Class D and the Grant going together.
Fantastico!!!!

I wanted to make sure I thanked you Poultrygeist and Raven for your recommendations, help, support. You two have been awesome!

My next project is to get the Sure amp going but I am still waiting for power supply from connex.

Then I will turn my attention to another room and another system.

Anyway
Thank you both very much.
It has definitively been worth the journey; and the path continues.

[Poultrygeist]

You're welcome. How bout some pictures?

[blackraven]

BoJonJovi, I'm glad that you like the combo. Now just sit back and enjoy the music and have a beer or 2 for me!

Larry

[BoJonJovi]

Sorry, I am still learning how to post. I hope the picture comes out.



The bad thing is now that I can hear things a little better, I have become Mr Discerning. I find myself picking my speakers apart. For 80 percent of what I listen to they are very good. For Rock and Roll, not so good or anything with a lot going on. For voices, piano, light jazz, most alternative, blues they are great; which is good since that is what I listen to most. Miles Davis is magnificent as is Paul Desmond -Cool Imagination, Lisa Hamilton-Seduction, Amel Larrieux-Get Up and on and on. I find music that I did not care much for is suddenly great.

But Alas, one is always looking for the Holy Grail. Little does one realize that the search itself is the Holy Grail. I am hoping to start making some in the next month or two.
I don't know if I can improve on what I have but I would like to try.
Heck, I might just learn something.

I still have a pair of old Jenson Electrostatics I can put on the end of the wires. I am not sure what I got laying around here that might be great.

[BoJonJovi]

Looks like the picture did not come out. I put it on Picassa and uploaded it so it would give me a URL. Then used the attach picture icon. Nada. There must be an easier way or something I am missing.

[BoJonJovi]

Ok I found the how to attach photos link. I was making it too complicated.

I like the way the amp case came out. It was a pain but the redo would be a snap compared to this proto. It was much harder than the actual amp build. Probably due to my typical woodworking tools being inaccessible at the moment. It was basically built using a compound miter saw and that was pretty much it.

I pulled out my old Janszen speakers that I purchased 40 years ago at age 14; I washed a dish or two for those. Frankly I am amazed at how good they sound all things considered. They have been reconed twice and have sat unused for nearly 15 years. I think they deserve a rebuild.

Arthur Janszen was one of the pioneers of electrostatic speakers and designed the KLH Nine electrostatics. I could never afford those. Probably still cant. I was pleased to find Davd Janszen his son started making speakers in 2005. I would love to hear them. I wrote him for suggestions for a rebuild and he responded within the morning. He gave some good things to consider. That was pretty cool.

You can check the new
Janszen Speakers out.The website provides a good history of electrostatics the precursor to the Magnepans.