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Thread: More power

  1. #1
    dr bud
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    More power

    I am finally in the position to upgradeI am looking for an amp upgrade for either just my fronts or a 5 channel.I need more power for my fronts mainly.Currently own a rotel rmb 1095(200x5).Been a while since i posted.Been looking on e bay audiogon etc.The new icepower amps by d sonic seem like the would do the job from what i've read.I never see them for sale used so that tells me people are very happy with them and don't want to part with them.I see sunfire amps for sale alot.The 400 plus watt ones.Another option perhaps.Any advice would be great. Probably want to stay under 2000.I know thats not alot to spend but buying used you can get good deals at times.

  2. #2
    Ajani
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    Just for your mains, I'd pick up the Musical Fidelity 550K Superchargers from Audioadvisor for under $2K:

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1MF550K

  3. #3
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    I would check out Emotiva for big power at an affordable price. To tell you the truth though, you're going into danger land past 200 watts for most speakers. Be careful of your speakers, and your hearing too.

  4. #4
    Audio Hobbyist Since 1969 Glen B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr bud
    I am finally in the position to upgradeI am looking for an amp upgrade for either just my fronts or a 5 channel.I need more power for my fronts mainly.Currently own a rotel rmb 1095(200x5).Been a while since i posted.Been looking on e bay audiogon etc.The new icepower amps by d sonic seem like the would do the job from what i've read.I never see them for sale used so that tells me people are very happy with them and don't want to part with them.I see sunfire amps for sale alot.The 400 plus watt ones.Another option perhaps.Any advice would be great. Probably want to stay under 2000.I know thats not alot to spend but buying used you can get good deals at times.
    Details about your other equipment, speakers, room size and how loud you like to listen are helpful when asking for recommendations. What don't you like about your present amp/system ? Are you looking for quality or quantity improvements ? 200 watts is already plenty, unless you have very inefficient speakers and like to listen very loud.

  5. #5
    dr bud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Just for your mains, I'd pick up the Musical Fidelity 550K Superchargers from Audioadvisor for under $2K:

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1MF550K
    Will check into it.Thanks.

  6. #6
    dr bud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen B
    Details about your other equipment, speakers, room size and how loud you like to listen are helpful when asking for recommendations. What don't you like about your present amp/system ? Are you looking for quality or quantity improvements ? 200 watts is already plenty, unless you have very inefficient speakers and like to listen very loud.
    I actually posted a couple years ago and you responded.I was asking about more power then tooI found a rotel rmb1090 and am thinkin about it.I need more head room and volume because yes at times i like it LOUD!Speakers are 91sensitivity 8ohm,and can take 500watts rms.And i have put 500 to them with a friends amp.I was definitly content.Room 12 by 20

  7. #7
    dr bud
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I would check out Emotiva for big power at an affordable price. To tell you the truth though, you're going into danger land past 200 watts for most speakers. Be careful of your speakers, and your hearing too.
    Actually talked with them last week.Vincent was a great help.Very nice guy.Seems like a good company.

  8. #8
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr bud
    I actually posted a couple years ago and you responded.I was asking about more power then tooI found a rotel rmb1090 and am thinkin about it.I need more head room and volume because yes at times i like it LOUD!Speakers are 91sensitivity 8ohm,and can take 500watts rms.And i have put 500 to them with a friends amp.I was definitly content.Room 12 by 20
    I know that people often forget what a big difference listening volume makes to one's power requirements. I often hear statements that a given speaker requires some specific power minimum, e.g. that my Magneplanars need, say, 300 wpc.

    But this is nonsense: my typical maximum listening level is about 72 dB and peaks might be 85 dB, (this is for classical music). My 120 wpc monoblocks are more than adequate. But if your comparative figures are 82 and 95, your needing 10x the power.

  9. #9
    dr bud
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    I looked the sight up and read some reviews.interesting concept.i don't like the idea of having to use two more outlets considering i already have to plug in my center and main speakers (definitive tech)

  10. #10
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr bud
    I looked the sight up and read some reviews.interesting concept.i don't like the idea of having to use two more outlets considering i already have to plug in my center and main speakers (definitive tech)
    Are you referring to the Superchargers? I was actually suggesting using them as power amplifiers rather than to Supercharge your Rotels.

  11. #11
    dr bud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    Are you referring to the Superchargers? I was actually suggesting using them as power amplifiers rather than to Supercharge your Rotels.
    Yes.As i understood from the sight you basically run them in between your amp and speaker.

  12. #12
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr bud
    Yes.As i understood from the sight you basically run them in between your amp and speaker.
    Yep... that's the way to use them as Superchargers... but they can also be used as normal monoblocks...

    The Supercharger concept was more for preserving the sound of a high quality, but low powered amp... I haven't tested this, but odds are that the Supercharger as a Power Amp is higher quality than the Rotel Amp, so there would be no point 'preserving the sound' of the Rotel... Better to just use the superior (sounding), higher powered amp...

  13. #13
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    Dr Bud,

    What are the specific speakers? Your 91 db speakers could really be 85 db. I've seen much worse exaggeration of efficiency.

    Most speakers make a modest gain at best in going beyond 200 w due to power compression and the fact that they are not designed for higher output so they will sound stressed. In my system I have a 230w and 650w amp and I've used both to drive my mains.

    I'd look elsewhere for your upgrade. If you run your mains high passed at 80 Hz you will effectively increase the power ie less power is needed for a smaller bandwidth.

    You may also be better upgrading the speakers and looking at higher efficiency. Consider this. Hifi speakers rated at 100w will have some compression when driven with 200w. Here's a real example. Beyma make a 6.5" pro mid that is 98 db sensitive and is used in many large commercial cinemas. It has a 125w rating and at that power level it has nearly 6db of power compression. Try driving hifi drivers with 200w and already you are losing a lot of power through compression. In this example even with 125 w, you lose 6db which is making your amp act like about 30w! If you go from 200w to 400w at best you can get 3db increase but that gain is offset by extra power compression and lower SQ as drivers start finding their thermal and mechanical limits. You end up with maybe 1.5 db increase which is barely audible. The advantage is perhaps that the higher powered amp isn't clipping. So perhaps if you are clipping your Rotel, you might get slightly more laid back sound, not as harsh when pushed due to the absence of clipping. But here the most significant issue is that the speakers themselves are most likely being pushed beyond what they are designed for. Unless you have speakers that are designed to work with very high power.

    What you really want IMHO is something more like this:
    http://www.ai-audio.com/products_esp12.html

    with your current amp. Available now as kits as discussed on the diy forum from Gedlee:

    http://www.gedlee.com/abbey.htm

    I'm planning on doing something similar myself, similar approach but my own design.

  14. #14
    dr bud
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    Never heard of them.thats some serious spl!My speakers are def tech bp2000tl's.They can take 600watts rms.As i stated i have run them with 500 watts behind them and it was louder no doubt.The amp pushing them was an A/B international.Wasn't crazy about the sound quality compared to the rotel.I also wonder since i don't have a dedicatd 20Amp for just all my stereo stuff that i could be running out of current from the wall.

  15. #15
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    If you want serious power and precission, perhaps you need to consider the likes of the Genelec 8260A, (here), internallly tri-amped studio monitors. Genelec also makes non DSP version, the 8060A, (here).

    Of course the above are pricey. Genelec does make some lower priced models that would be suitable for your room which isn't overly large.

  16. #16
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    Dr,

    Your speakers have pretty good efficiency and quite high power handling. In general the ideal is to run speakers with an amp rated for twice the power of the speakers. 400 - 500w isn't a bad idea. For serious power, the Emotiva amps are worth considering. Another option is running a pro amp.

    If you find that you like to turn them up a lot, then you will get a better result with more efficient speakers, as long as they don't achieve that extra efficiency in ways that add coloration.

  17. #17
    dr bud
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    emotiva

    I have talked to them.They were very pleseant and helpful.The draw back though is having two mono blocks to plug in for the mains besides having the rmb 1095 for the surounds and center.I would be involuntarily castrated by the wife.I do have a chance to get a rotel rmb 1090(380x2) that should get me the extra headroom and a touch more loudness than my 1095.She aint goin to like that set up much better,but i got to put my foot downAny rmb 1090 owners want to chime in?Can anyone compare its output to the 1095?

  18. #18
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    XPA2 - 2 x 500w into 4 ohms

    but really that Emotiva is a bit of a wimp compared to Behringer Europower EP4000. Useful for arc welding among other things. Or if you want an amp that makes the Behringer look like a wimp, sprechen sie mit Lab Gruppen!

  19. #19
    Lurker Hyfi's Avatar
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    I would consider an Odyssey Stratos Extreme version for your budget.

    Stratos Stereo:
    base model specifications:

    * $1,195 USD
    * 2 x 150 Watts RMS @ 8 Ohms
    * 2 Ohm load stable
    * Class A/AB
    * 2 - 400,000 Hz frequency range
    * 60,000F memory
    * 45 amps current delivery
    * <0.04% THD (not audible)
    * >500 continuous damping factor
    * Input impedance 22K ohms
    * DC offset <1 mV
    * RCA & XLR (bridged) inputs
    * 400 VA Plitron transformer
    * Sanken Epitaxial Planar Transistors 2SA1216 & 2SC2922
    * Anti vibration dual thickness PCB
    * Power consumption when idle 30Watts
    * 4 internal fuses 250V/6.3A, 5x20mm, fast blow
    * Additional electrical protection fuse
    * 54 lbs weight / 24.5 kg
    * Dimensions: 19 width x 18 deep x 7 height (in) /
    48.3 width x 45.7 deep x 17.8 height (cm)

    Stratos Stereo Plus:
    improvements over base model:

    * $ Call us
    * Additional 60,000F memory bank for 120,000F total
    * 55 lbs / 25 kg weight

    Stratos Stereo Extreme:
    improvements over Plus model:

    * $ Call us
    * Additional 60,000F memory bank for 180,000F total
    * >60 amps current delivery
    * Additional 400 VA Plitron transformer for 800VA total
    * Higher performance parts:
    Nichicon Muse capacitors, Vishay/Dale resistors, extra WIMA metal film capacitors
    * Power consumption when idle 35Watts
    * 70 lbs / 32 kg weight

    http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products...os-stereo.html

    Hyfi
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Main - Rotel 1072 > VAC CLA1 MKII > Counterpoint NPS 400 > Clearfield Continentals > Synergystic Research
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Secondary - Oppo 93 > Hafler 945 Pre-Tuner >Odyssey Stratos Plus > JM Labs Tantal 509s > Tara Labs

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    But this is nonsense: my typical maximum listening level is about 72 dB and peaks might be 85 dB, (this is for classical music). My 120 wpc monoblocks are more than adequate. But if your comparative figures are 82 and 95, your needing 10x the power.
    I'm sorry to step in, but I gotta ask this..how on earth do you know the number of dB you're listening at? It'd be nice to know how much my system can pump out

  21. #21
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    Don't tell me you all have Db meters?? Crazy lol

  22. #22
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klif570
    Don't tell me you all have Db meters?? Crazy lol
    Yes... a lot of us do. I know, we're a little

  23. #23
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klif570
    Don't tell me you all have Db meters?? Crazy lol
    Best $40 - $50 you'll ever spend. I've had mine going on 25 years now.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  24. #24
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    Hmm, I may have to join ya club then as I do want to know how loud it is in numbers as well. At least I'll know I'm not the only one haha

  25. #25
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    There is an iPhone app for a SPL meter. If you're not using an iPhone there is always the Rat Shack meter. I've had mine since the late 70's.
    ARC SP9 MKIII preamp,VPI HW19jr, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1 head amp, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts
    Marantz CD63SE CD,Yamaha DVD-S1800, MSB DAC
    Accuphase T101 tuner,Nakamichi LX-5, ZX-7 Teac V-7010
    Lexicon MC8 surround processor
    2 Adcom GFA-545,2 radically modified Dynaco MK3's,2 bridged Crown XLS-402, Paradigm X-30, Behringer CX2310, DSP1124P
    2 12" Transmission Line Subs (PASS DIY El-Pipe-O), Acoustat Spectra 22 ESL's (fronts), Acoustat Model 1 ESL's/SPW-1 Woofer (rears)

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