McIntosh preamp?

[blackraven]

Looking at the inside of the BAT goes against the "less is more" philosophy. But at least it looks like you are somewhat getting your money's worth compared to the spartan insides of some line stage preamps that sell for thousands of dollars with just a few hundred dollars of parts.

[Feanor]

Looking at the inside of the BAT goes against the "less is more" philosophy. But at least it looks like you are somewhat getting your money's worth compared to the spartan insides of some line stage preamps that sell for thousands of dollars with just a few hundred dollars of parts.

Right, well fully balanced circuitry basically doubles all components; also each channel seems to have its own transformers, i.e. this is or is close to "dual mono".

There is quite an array of heat sinks as we see; these are likely to provide cooling for separate power supply regulator chips used in various parts of the circuit; this separate regulations is generally a good thing. Also, the numerous, large capacitors are likely used in the power supplies and aren't in the signal path. {edit} Actually according to BAT, the new VK-53se has replaced output capacitors with transformers, so I guess so of the gold-colored capacitors near the top of the photo are in the signal path. {/edit}

On the other hand that design uses eight dual-triode tubes and one wonders how these are all used, especially in that supposedly none are cathode follower output buffers. Given their type, they presumably aren't used for power supply, which is presumably solid state.

[blackraven]

I was considering a VK-32 preamp that was on Agon for $2600 but it was missing the remote and it costs $500 for a new one. I called BAT and they admitted that it was outrageously expensive. When I told the guy that the remote for the Atma sphere was $950 he didn't feel so bad. I would have bought the Atma Sphere MP-3 that Upscale Audio has for sale but it does not come with a remote which is a deal breaker. Adding the remote would drive the cost up to much.

BAT says the VK-32 is warmer and smoother than the older 51se but the 51se was more detailed and dynamic. You can upgrade the 32 to an se version for about $3K. You can take it all the way up to a 33se if you want.

I just put in a bid on the VK-51se, so we will see what happens.

[blackraven]

Well, the guy has accepted my bid on the BAT. Any one want to buy a Pass Labs X1 preamp?

I will need to buy tubes for the BAT. It takes 6H30's x 8 tubes. I am going to buy the Electro Harmonix gold pin, matched pairs. I will also need a pair of RCA to XLR adapters for my DAC.

[Mr Peabody]

I'll be anxious to hear how the BAT sounds, you are the first person I know who has one.

6H30, used to be called "the super tube" for it's long life. I thought those were only Russian. BAT did have them exclusive until ARC some how worked a deal for them, I'm not sure if they are more widely used today or not.

[blackraven]

All the 6H30's are made in the same Russian plant that made the old military (and highly coveted) 6H30 DR tubes. The Reflektor plant makes the Sovtek and Electro-Harmonix gold pin 6H30's which are basically a higher voltage 6DJ8.

[Jack in Wilmington]

All the 6H30's are made in the same Russian plant that made the old military (and highly coveted) 6H30 DR tubes. The Reflektor plant makes the Sovtek and Electro-Harmonix gold pin 6H30's which are basically a higher voltage 6DJ8.

Is it a lot more expensive to stock it with similar tubes that the last owner had in it? Do you think the RCA to XLR adapters will work as well as a full XLR connection?

[Feanor]

... Do you think the RCA to XLR adapters will work as well as a full XLR connection?

I'm sure that that the RCA > XLR will work, i.e. blackraven will get sound, but get a relative 6 dB reduction in overall gain. I'd tend to assume that the BAT will simply process the "+" signal from the DAC and won't attempt to derive the "-" by some means such as a transformer or active circuit. That is a question he might want to pose to the BAT folks: does the VK-51se construct a balanced signal from an SE input. I suspect the answer is, "No", if for no other reason than the 51se provides only balanced input connections.

That being the case, his X250 will be getting a single-ended input (even if XLR cables are used). The long & short of this is that, using his existing single-ended DAC, he won't be enjoying the benefits of balanced circuitry notwithstanding that he has a fully balanced preamp.

[frenchmon]

All the 6H30's are made in the same Russian plant that made the old military (and highly coveted) 6H30 DR tubes. The Reflektor plant makes the Sovtek and Electro-Harmonix gold pin 6H30's which are basically a higher voltage 6DJ8.

You may also use 6H30Pi/ 6H30n-EB / 6N30Pi tubes if you can find them.

[blackraven]

I talked to BAT and there is no problem using the XLR adpaters and they did not think that there would be a loss of sound quality. As for the Pass, I did not notice any improvement in going from RCA to XLR. My DAC still is single ended into the Pass Preamp. Any decrease in sound quality will be offset by the much greater improvement that the BAT brings. Eventually I will get a new DAC or high end CD or SACD player with XLR. I think that the BAT has an adjustable gain much as the Pass X1 has.

Concerning the tubes, they still make brand new Sovtek and EH 6H30 Pi tubes for about $29 per Sovtek and $33 per EH gold pin. They are not hard to get and my local tube dealer here in the Twin Cities has the EH's in stock and they will match them for me. The DR's are the NOS and there are a lot of phony DR's around and they are of questionably better sound depending upon the review that you read. Actually, I am glad that there are not a lot of different 6H30's because it will keep me from tube rolling and wasting money. I went through at least a dozen pairs of 6CG7's before finding some that I liked.


I also have found a pair of high quality Cardas XLR adapters for $69 pr.

[frenchmon]

Are you still going to get the Cardas Parsec interconnects?

[blackraven]

Are you still going to get the Cardas Parsec interconnects?

Yes, but it will be a while before I buy them due to the expense of the BAT and the tubes.

[Feanor]

I talked to BAT and there is no problem using the XLR adpaters and they did not think that there would be a loss of sound quality. As for the Pass, I did not notice any improvement in going from RCA to XLR. My DAC still is single ended into the Pass Preamp. Any decrease in sound quality will be offset by the much greater improvement in that the BAT brings. Eventually I will get a new DAC or high end CD or SACD player with XLR. I think that the BAT has an adjustable gain much as the Pass X1 has.
...
I also have found a pair of high quality Cardas XLR adapters for $69 pr.

That's my guess too. The inherent character of the BAT will be more significant than balanced vs. single-ended. Balanced vs. SE has made no noticeable difference in my experience even with amps that are tweaked for balanced. The Cardas female RCA to male XLR should work fine to connect your DAC, though I see that Cardas make two types and don't seem to describe the differences. I assume you will use XLR between the BAT and the Pass.

I'll be very interested indeed to hear your impression of the BAT vs. the Pass X-1 vs. your Van Alstine.

[blackraven]

I saw the 2 different XLR adapters form Cardas. I will buy the cheaper pair for $69pr vs 150pr. Parts express sells cheapies for $5 which I will use for my sub.

[Feanor]

I saw the 2 different XLR adapters form Cardas. I will buy the cheaper pair for $69pr vs 150pr. Parts express sells cheapies for $5 which I will use for my sub.

Sounds like a plan. Another option, maybe especially for your sub, would be hybrid cables, e.g. from Monoprice ...

[blackraven]

I saw that cable but read this review on it-


As always Monoprice has the best products that your money can buy.
Was this review helpful to you?

Rating: (8 out of 10) Reviewer: John Jamieson from Sault Ste Marie, MI
8/21/2012 9:34:50 AM
Good ONLY for balanced to unbalanced
Pros: Great cable for connecting a balanced output to an unbalanced input

Cons: Do NOT mistake this cable as being the proper way to connect an unbalanced output to a balanced input (e.g. a consumer CD player to a audio mixing board).

I love monoprice cables in general, and this cable is good. At the time of this review, the writeup is incorrect when stating that this should be used to connect an unbalanced output with a balanced input.

To connect an unbalanced output to a balanced input, a two conductor (+ shield) cable is needed.
On the unbalanced end, the red conductor should connect to the tip, the black to the ring (the shield should not be connected).
The XLR connector should be wired with the shield connecting to pin 1, the red to pin 2, the black to pin 3.
You now would have 30-80db of noise rejection.

For more reading:

This Rane document has the best chart on proper wireing.
Sound System Interconnection

This is a more technical document that tells us why.
AV: Connecting Unbalanced Outputs To Balanced Inputs?And Vice-Versa - Pro Sound Web


All the adpaters that I am looking at have the correct pin connections, this cable does not

[Feanor]

I saw that cable but read this review on it-

As always Monoprice has the best products that your money can buy.
Was this review helpful to you?

Rating: (8 out of 10) Reviewer: John Jamieson from Sault Ste Marie, MI
8/21/2012 9:34:50 AM
Good ONLY for balanced to unbalanced
Pros: Great cable for connecting a balanced output to an unbalanced input

Cons: Do NOT mistake this cable as being the proper way to connect an unbalanced output to a balanced input (e.g. a consumer CD player to a audio mixing board).

I love monoprice cables in general, and this cable is good. At the time of this review, the writeup is incorrect when stating that this should be used to connect an unbalanced output with a balanced input.

To connect an unbalanced output to a balanced input, a two conductor (+ shield) cable is needed.
On the unbalanced end, the red conductor should connect to the tip, the black to the ring (the shield should not be connected).
The XLR connector should be wired with the shield connecting to pin 1, the red to pin 2, the black to pin 3.
You now would have 30-80db of noise rejection.

For more reading:

This Rane document has the best chart on proper wireing.
Sound System Interconnection

This is a more technical document that tells us why.
AV: Connecting Unbalanced Outputs To Balanced Inputs?And Vice-Versa - Pro Sound Web

All the adapters that I am looking at have the correct pin connections, this cable does not

Indeed, I'm familiar with the Rane document and I would would follow that advice.

I'm a little confused by the review however. The cable I pictured would be to the one to go from the BAT to your subwoofer, i.e. balanced to unbalanced, i.e. female XLR to male RCA. I really don't know whether the Monoprice cable is correctly wired in accordance with Rane, but the reviewer does say, "Great cable for connecting a balanced output to an unbalanced input".

Rane shows two balanced to unbalanced: one for one wire + shield (#4) and another for two wire + shield (#6). A few years ago I fabricated a pair of balanced to unbalanced per #6 and an unbalanced to balanced per #17.

[frenchmon]

Sounds like a plan. Another option, maybe especially for your sub, would be hybrid cables, e.g. from Monoprice ...

High end gear like Pass and Bat connected with 5 dollar interconnect? That should never be. I guess the only way youd know is to do a shootout with this and a Cardas or some other reference cable.

[Feanor]

High end gear like Pass and Bat connected with 5 dollar interconnect? That should never be. I guess the only way youd know is to do a shootout with this and a Cardas or some other reference cable.

I don't buy generally buy $5 interconnects myself, then again I've heard little to no difference among interconnects up to the $200 level. At least do the shoot out before you declare, "That should never be".

BTW, I think good advice would be to put your adaptor on the UNbalanced end of the connection, whether source or target.

[frenchmon]

Feanor,,,,I use to own those same balanced cables from MONO PRICE and gave them away. Not a bad cable but compaired to more pricey ones they fail of refinement.

[blackraven]

I am only going to use the cheap XLR adpaters for my subwoofer. I am using some cheap RCA's to connect my sub to my preamp. I have not noticed a drop off in sound from my higher end sub cable that I broke.

[Feanor]

Feanor,,,,I use to own those same balanced cables from MONO PRICE and gave them away. Not a bad cable but compaired to more pricey ones they fail of refinement.

I'm not counselling anyone to buy cheap cables. Actually I only linked the Monoprice cables to illustrate what a hybrid XLR female to RCA male cable would look like.

I own some Blue Jeans Cable XLRs that use Belden cable, and also a pair from Take Five Audio using cryo treated Neotech cable. Both would be considered medium priced, the BJC on the lower end, the Take Five a bit higher. I can't hear any difference though.

[blackraven]

Ok, I sent out the check for the BAT VK-51se. I should have it in about 7-14 days. I already purchased the tubes. I am excited to say the least. If it works out, then my next upgrade will be my DAC and then possibly the Magnepan 1.7's or 3.7i's in a couple of years.

[Mr Peabody]

I think we will all be waiting to hear about the BAT.

Jack, if you are still wanting a tube pre I know where you can get a like new Premiluna, it's the one that sells for around $3200 and he is asking $2k. The guy bought it and decided he didn't want tubes and bought a Levinson pre. I haven't heard it but my friend says it's more neutral sounding which I found surprising from what others have said about the brand. If interested email me and I will give you the contact info. Or, if no dealers in your area maybe you want a Levinson