Jolida or other Tube amps for Martin Logans?

[Peter_Klim]

Has anyone experienced Jolida's integrated amps? In particular their low powered (25 - 75 watts/ch), low priced (around a grand) tube int. amps?

I was thinking of them since they are low in price and I've heard that tubes sound mellow (which would be good for my sensitive and damaged ear).

Below is an e-mail I sent Jolida that you can read to understand my situation better and, if you please could, assit me into making a correct purchase (maybe suggesting other amps that fit what I am seeking):

Hi,

I damaged my ears (due to listening to loud music) to
the point where even low/moderate levels of music
makes them feel funny and pop the next day (from
things like dishes hitting each other).

So, I am looking for a low power integrated amp.
Currently, I am using an old 1988 45watt/ch Onkyo
receiver and it never overheats with my Martin Logan
ReQuest speakers. Even playing it with the volume
turned up 3/10th of the way is bad for my ears. So
even 45watts/ch is good enough for me.

Given my situation, would the JD 102B be OK with the
Martin's in not overheating? I know more power will
make them sound better, but I don't want to spend more
money if I will be going deaf some day. Plus, I am
happy with the sound of the Onkyo (except that one
channel cuts out at low volumes) and I am not seeking
the best possible sound anymore.

In addition, can you send me a list of authorized
dealers in the NJ/NYC area?

[okiemax]

Has anyone experienced Jolida's integrated amps? In particular their low powered (25 - 75 watts/ch), low priced (around a grand) tube int. amps?

I was thinking of them since they are low in price and I've heard that tubes sound mellow (which would be good for my sensitive and damaged ear).

Below is an e-mail I sent Jolida that you can read to understand my situation better and, if you please could, assit me into making a correct purchase (maybe suggesting other amps that fit what I am seeking):

Hi,

I damaged my ears (due to listening to loud music) to
the point where even low/moderate levels of music
makes them feel funny and pop the next day (from
things like dishes hitting each other).

So, I am looking for a low power integrated amp.
Currently, I am using an old 1988 45watt/ch Onkyo
receiver and it never overheats with my Martin Logan
ReQuest speakers. Even playing it with the volume
turned up 3/10th of the way is bad for my ears. So
even 45watts/ch is good enough for me.

Given my situation, would the JD 102B be OK with the
Martin's in not overheating? I know more power will
make them sound better, but I don't want to spend more
money if I will be going deaf some day. Plus, I am
happy with the sound of the Onkyo (except that one
channel cuts out at low volumes) and I am not seeking
the best possible sound anymore.

In addition, can you send me a list of authorized
dealers in the NJ/NYC area?

I'm sorry about your hearing problem. I don't have experience with the Jolida amps, but the JD302B model's reviews on this site are impressive(a pefect 5 out of 5 with 17 reviewers). Another possibility is a used Conrad-Johnson CAV 50(4.9 out of 5 with 20 reviewers), which you may be able to find for around $1,000. While I haven't used this model, I have used some of this maker's other tubed amps and preamps, and was pleased with resale value and service.

I would be interested in Jolida's reply to your request for information, if you care to share it. I also wondered about what Martin Logan might say.

[RGA]

The ML's can be pretty tough to drive - don't know off hand about the Requests. Tube amps can certainly drive electrostats from Quad - but some ML's have very low impedence swings. If your ML is reasonably benign and doesn't go much under 4ohms - no lower than 3 - and the Jolida has a 4ohm tap then you're probably fine - the 302B is the way to go.

BUT, the volume level on the knob and the watt rating are not the same. Your present amp if it is driving the speaker should be okay.

It is not really true that tube amps are mellow. There are many you would probably not tell much difference from a Bryston. The 302b - and Jolida generally - follow the tube stereotype a bit more than Antique Sound Labs in that they have a bit of warm sound about them - how they would work with an electrostat? Never seen that done and my dealers carries both.

Also Onkyo generally has a slightly warmer presentation than other receivers which is probably why people gravitate to them - I liked the Onkyo's better than my Marantz - but needed a particular feature that Onkyo didn't offer - and the Marantz was acceptable sound wise for a receiver.

Unfortunately I don't know what to say because a hearing issue is a difficult thing. If loud and high pitch is a problem and causes pain then you would probably have to listen at much lower volumes. Panels and high sensiticvity speakers are usually the best at low volume listening.

[Peter_Klim]

I'm sorry about your hearing problem. I don't have experience with the Jolida amps, but the JD302B model's reviews on this site are impressive(a pefect 5 out of 5 with 17 reviewers). Another possibility is a used Conrad-Johnson CAV 50(4.9 out of 5 with 20 reviewers), which you may be able to find for around $1,000. While I haven't used this model, I have used some of this maker's other tubed amps and preamps, and was pleased with resale value and service.

I would be interested in Jolida's reply to your request for information, if you care to share it. I also wondered about what Martin Logan might say.

What did you say?? (jk) Thanks.

And thanks for the response. I have read those 17 reviews. Actually, the 302B is the one I was considering even before I wrote Jolida, but just wanted to see how much he would try to upgrade me (if I said the 302B up front, then maybe he still would've tried to upgrade me?) ( I have read on the M. Logan Owner site that one person is successfully using a 30W tube on his MLs.) But the reliablity on Jolida's I've been reading on numerous sites is making me cautious of them. And a remote would be nice too.

I looked at the CJ after reading your reply (thanks again). Used (I saw in on audiogon.com) - it about the same as the 302B.

It took Jolida a few days to repsond:

I would go with the 202A, I think the 102 will not have enough power. Tubes will help with low level resolution.]

Call Response audio at 607-785-3440.

Michael Allen

[Peter_Klim]

The ML's can be pretty tough to drive - don't know off hand about the Requests. Tube amps can certainly drive electrostats from Quad - but some ML's have very low impedence swings. If your ML is reasonably benign and doesn't go much under 4ohms - no lower than 3 - and the Jolida has a 4ohm tap then you're probably fine - the 302B is the way to go.

BUT, the volume level on the knob and the watt rating are not the same. Your present amp if it is driving the speaker should be okay.

It is not really true that tube amps are mellow. There are many you would probably not tell much difference from a Bryston. The 302b - and Jolida generally - follow the tube stereotype a bit more than Antique Sound Labs in that they have a bit of warm sound about them - how they would work with an electrostat? Never seen that done and my dealers carries both.

Also Onkyo generally has a slightly warmer presentation than other receivers which is probably why people gravitate to them - I liked the Onkyo's better than my Marantz - but needed a particular feature that Onkyo didn't offer - and the Marantz was acceptable sound wise for a receiver.

Unfortunately I don't know what to say because a hearing issue is a difficult thing. If loud and high pitch is a problem and causes pain then you would probably have to listen at much lower volumes. Panels and high sensiticvity speakers are usually the best at low volume listening.

I agree - ML's load, 302, gains defintely do very on different models and everything else you wrote about.

Actually, before I made this thread, I read alot of using info from you at other threads while researching Jolida int amps. You got me thinking of the ASL - better warrenty (not necessarily meaning it's more reliable, but I haven't read anything so far about it having poor reliability), and the remote. Currently, I use my remote to quickly turn down the volume durring the high (louder) passages in the music before it gets a chance to hurt my ear (it's never even loud, but still hurts it).

I've also increased the distance of my seat from the speakers so the sound pressure is decreased (headphones, played at even lower volumes, can really make you go deaf!) But it still hurts unless it's like TV set low

Hopefully the recent tinitus (last week. pain started months ago) is due to just the ear drum damage. The outer and inner ear damage can be fixed. But if my inner ear is also bad, then there is nothing that can be done to fix it. Will find out more when I see my doc again on Monday.

Thanks again guys!!

[Mr Peabody]

I love the ReQuests. I personally feel they sound even better than some of the ML more current models. In my opinion I think the Onkyo drives them because of it's high current amp section. The high current is also good for maintaining good sound at low levels. I think the ReQuests would present a problem to many other receiver brands. I'm not familiar with Jolida. As another option you might give a listen to Rotel which is also mellow and would still drive the ML's pretty well. You may also consider a new or used Classe integrated. Classe would drive the ML's great and sound wonderful. Classe to me seems to have a polite sound but they do not sacrafice the highs. Rotel and Classe are solid state amps. In my opinion Classe is much better. I have heard entry level tube gear can be noisy which could aggrevate your condition further, for this reason and the better driving power, I recommended the solid state. Rotel and Classe are the only 2 solid state amps that I have heard personally that would meet what your are looking for. There are many low powered British amps that would drive your speakers but I don't think they would sound to your liking.

Try to find a shop that will let you have an in home audition.

[RGA]

Perhaps the doctor can provide some sort of screen out - when I go to a rock concert I try and get ear plugs becuase it's so loud that even with them in the music is loud but the treble glare is greatly reduced.

The ASL AQ1003dt is a nice unit. UHF magazine reviewed their older version and were impressed. You could actually ask UHF for a suggestion via e-mail becuase they would likely be able to provide some alternatives. http://www.uhfmag.com/

[Peter_Klim]

Perhaps the doctor can provide some sort of screen out - when I go to a rock concert I try and get ear plugs becuase it's so loud that even with them in the music is loud but the treble glare is greatly reduced.

The ASL AQ1003dt is a nice unit. UHF magazine reviewed their older version and were impressed. You could actually ask UHF for a suggestion via e-mail becuase they would likely be able to provide some alternatives. http://www.uhfmag.com/

Yes, the AQ1003dt model is the one I've seen you right about before. That one is about the same price as the 302B.

I have used an ear plug for the one ear (a silicone one that build a seal on your outer ear @ ~ $1 ea) durring my listening, but in that ear I loose all the highs and mids, but not bass. It give an unbalanced sound. Plus, every sneeze, anything you say, and depending how hard you are breathing (sometimes I work out to music) - you here yourself (conductive sound?). I am considering getting musician ear plugs (kinda costly @~$150pr) which have a better ability to attenuate the full frequency range at the same DB level.

[Peter_Klim]

I love the ReQuests. I personally feel they sound even better than some of the ML more current models. In my opinion I think the Onkyo drives them because of it's high current amp section. The high current is also good for maintaining good sound at low levels. I think the ReQuests would present a problem to many other receiver brands. I'm not familiar with Jolida. As another option you might give a listen to Rotel which is also mellow and would still drive the ML's pretty well. You may also consider a new or used Classe integrated. Classe would drive the ML's great and sound wonderful. Classe to me seems to have a polite sound but they do not sacrafice the highs. Rotel and Classe are solid state amps. In my opinion Classe is much better. I have heard entry level tube gear can be noisy which could aggrevate your condition further, for this reason and the better driving power, I recommended the solid state. Rotel and Classe are the only 2 solid state amps that I have heard personally that would meet what your are looking for. There are many low powered British amps that would drive your speakers but I don't think they would sound to your liking.

Try to find a shop that will let you have an in home audition.

Classe vs Rotel?? Aren't they a whole world of difference?

I actually did consider a Rotel pre (RC 1070) and a matching amp before my problem occured and I was wanting to crank it up. And considered the Halo Parasound stuff. If Classe, it would've been used for sure.

What do you mean that tubes make noise? Besides, don't tubes in general create less listeners fatigue?

[Peter_Klim]

Perhaps the doctor can provide some sort of screen out - when I go to a rock concert I try and get ear plugs becuase it's so loud that even with them in the music is loud but the treble glare is greatly reduced.

The ASL AQ1003dt is a nice unit. UHF magazine reviewed their older version and were impressed. You could actually ask UHF for a suggestion via e-mail becuase they would likely be able to provide some alternatives. http://www.uhfmag.com/

If I got the AQ1003dt, does/could upgrading the tubes increase the power? Or is it just for sound quality?

I ask because Jolida said their 25W/ch amp would not be that great for the MLs. And the AQ1003dt is only 5 watts more. But I like AQ1003dt remote feature.

[RGA]

Problem is that people usually don't match tube amps with Martin Logan. And I have never tried it. If I owned a stat - other than Quad - I would be looking for big watts.

Perhaps a tube preamp and SS power amp. Or just a good solid state amplifier.

Frankly I would post your whole question over on the amplifier or speaker forum at Audioasylum - you don't need to register. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/bbs.html

[Mr Peabody]

I really am out of my element when talking tubes. I have heard some Audio Research and VTL, no entry level. I have been told that entry level tube amps were noisy, I pressume they meant like background noise or a higher noise floor than solid state. I am a solid state guy and I don't get listening fatigue with my system. I would think that ML's would be a good speaker for your condition because the electrostatic panel don't move the air in the same way as a dynamic speaker. When auditioning ML's that is the one thing I missed from them was the physical aspect. I guess really that would depend on what triggers your pain, the sharpness of the sound or the pressure. If it's sharpness, the ML's are revealing, maybe something like a Vandersteen may be better for you. I just mentioned the SS amps as an option, if I had ML's I would pursue tubes as well. My 2nd favorite system I ever heard was those ReQuests driven by an Audio Research system. The presence in the midrange was haunting.

Just curious how bass effects you? I'd say if it's a problem for you, you may want to down grade to an old Aerius that only has an 8 inch woofer and really has a rolled off bass sound.

[Mr Peabody]

Didn't notice the Rega before, is that new?

[Fred70433]

This thread is pretty old, but I thought I'd bring it back with a twist. Being definately in the market for a new pair of speakers (the Zu Omen Def thread here was of great interest to me), I recently found a Maggie dealer not far from where I live. Thought I'd like to stop in and have a listen to the 1.7s.

My big concern is that I recently purchased a Jolida 502B with its 65 watt rated output. While the amp has 4 ohm taps, I wonder whether it can deliver enough current to adequately drive the Maggies. In my rather small listening room my preference is to keep the volume moderate to low. Now the Jolida weighs in at a hefty 48lbs, most of which is centered on the backside where the transformers are located. I know that Jolida claims an emphasis on the quality of their power transformers. I wonder if this amp would adequately drive a pair of 86db electrostats? Anybody have an answer to this?

I plan to call Jolida this coming week to talk with them about this question. One of the guys in my audio club swears that the Maggies need at least 300 watts. I find it curious that Mangenpan's own website states that they use a meager 35 watt NAD at their factory. They emphasize high current and absolute stability with a 4 ohm load as the key a successful pairing.

BTW, having come from a solid state background getting used to the Jolida is kind of like changing brands of scotch. It's taking some getting used to. On the one hand I really like the sound, but the noise floor is irksome still. I wonder if I could improve that by rolling out the stock Tung Sol 6550's for a quad of the Shugang Treasure KT-88's. Has anyone here ever tried those tubes?

[RGA]

Tube power typically sounds as powerful as SS at double to three times the rated power. The jolida will have ZERO problems with the Magnepan 1.7. My dealer happily runs the Audio Note Soro (18 Watts) with the 1.7 - best sound I have ever heard from Magnepan and I played it reasonably loud to boot. But the transformers are outstanding and have plenty of power reserves.

Don't believe the BS about them needing mega watts - it is because SS amps sound like dreadful crap that they need to get more and more power - too much is better even when the speaker itself can't handle 300 watts. These clowns have never bothered to audition "good" low powered amplifiers. Sugden's original A21 single ended Solid state amp was HUGELY popular with Quad electrostats. The Sugden was 10 watts and halved at 4ohms - (so about 5 watts). Quad themselves designed relatively low powered tube amps directly for their Quad ESLs - but that doesn't stop the ignorant from claiming you need 1000 watts to get good sound. It's so irritating to talk to these people who never actually audition anything but regurgitate rubbish they read from other people who regurgitate rubbish.

Here is what Magnepan THEMSELVES use and recommend

"We are asked this question every day. But, individual tastes vary so greatly that a definitive answer is not possible. We are using a 35 watt receiver in the lobby to our factory." (Magnepan)

My dealer carries top of the line Bryston, Musical Fidelity, McIntosh, Ayre, Sim Audio, YBA, NAD, Rotel, Classe. That is quite a powerful line up of powerful amps. What do they choose to listen to the 1.7 and the other Magnepan speakers on? An 18 watt Soro http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/...ro_se_01.shtml and it sounds SO MUCH BETTER. Your Jolida is not only powerful enough - it is overkill.

I am surprised by the noise floor issue you are having - perhaps check the tube biasing or have it serviced. My amp is dead quiet and my ASL headphone amp is even quieter. They are both tube amps.

[Mr Peabody]

Fred you may want to ask this question on a new thread, there are several members here who actually own Maggies. For the record Maggies aren't electrostats.