Mixing amps a sin? or Another tube vs. SS experience.

[RushM3]

I have never considered myself an audiophile; perhaps a weekend warrior with a passion for technology at best. But, I heard a sound so sweet yesterday that has made me reevaluate my priorities.

The sound came from a pair of Quad ESL speakers hooked up to a conrad-johnson Premier 17LS tube pre-amp and a Quad CD player, but it was none of these that made the sound so rich, so full, so deep. It was the amp. A tube amp nevertheless.

As a techno junky, I have always been skeptical of tubes. After all, the technology has been around since my dad was a kid. So, dare I say naively, I confined my search for an amp to solely solid state. Who can blame me? The specs are better, the sound quality can be wonderful, and the prices are a bargain (relatively speaking).

It was yesterday that I took a trip to the local high-end audio store to continue my hunt for that illusive solid state amp that would knock my socks off. I auditioned the conrad-johnson MF2500, C-J's 2x240watt SS amp. The sound was smooth and non-fatiguing, but lacked in certain ranges. At least some instruments seemed more subdued than others. As an experiment, the sales-assistant disconnected the pre-amp and speakers from the amp and plugged them into the C-J Premier 140, a tube amp with 140watts into two channels. The sound: sweeter than anything I have ever heard.

Tchaikovsky was powerful, the instruments had noticeably more texture, and the soundstage was vivid and detailed. Jazz was rich, smooth, and lively. I can honestly say that I have never heard a better sounding amp and my skepticism of tubes has diminished. I know there's somewhat of a cultish following for tubes (and a group of skeptics to match), and I certainly don't mean to get anyone riled up. Just recounting my experience and awe.

Well, now that my lovely story has been told, there is another issue that is pressing my mind. My original intention was, and still is, to build a home theater. I would use the system solely for music, however, the rest of my family will be using it for a 5.1 HT. The c-j Premier 140 sure as hell ain't cheap, so to build a 5.1 system around 3 of them would be prohibitively expensive for me, and probably somewhat impractical. So finally, would it be a sin to mix that wonderful c-j 2 channel amp with a multi-channel amp from, say, Rotel? Mixing SS with tube, not to mention brands? The question is not whether it would work or not, because I'm sure it would. The question is if the tonal, timbre, etc. qualities would noticeably differ. Is it even worth it?

[RGA]

Lots of people mix and match with success. You don't have to spend the CJ prices either to get good tube gear. Antique Sound Labs and Audio Note make good tube gear and sell preamps for less money --- and of course more money than CJ.

[RushM3]

Lots of people mix and match with success. You don't have to spend the CJ prices either to get good tube gear. Antique Sound Labs and Audio Note make good tube gear and sell preamps for less money --- and of course more money than CJ.

I'll certainly look into those, but it was the c-j that left me in awe. And I'm not looking for a tube amp in particular, it just so happens that the amp I was amazed by was a tube despite my skepticism. As for preamps, like I said, I'm building a 5.1 system so I'd be looking into a surround processor. Possibly the Rotel, Anthem, or Aragon.

I'm glad to hear that people have success mixing & matching. I just thought mixing a c-j tube amp & SS multi-channel amp made by someone like Arcam, Rotel, or B&K might be a little extreme. I am a purist in some regards, particularly in maintaining the same audio equipment, so in defiling my purist tendencies by mixing amps, I'm hoping to achieve the same surprising results as I did when putting my tube doubts to the test.

[RGA]

You should not have tube skepticism...it's a pity that so many buy into the spec sheet and Solid State manufacturers whoi leave out certain measurements - re-write the definitions of others just so their products look better on the spec sheet.

Stereophile has tested and reviewed several products. The Best DAC ever to go through their publication was a tube design, there are many tube amps that measure dead flat - inadible distortion and when they do distort is proven that they distort in a more pleasing manner - and not just into clipping. You want watts How about 400Watts per channel from VTL - it also re-biases the tubes each and every track with a digital display of temperature and how the tubes are running.

What does SS offer exactly that makes them in any way superior other than size and weight - ZIP.

[RushM3]

You should not have tube skepticism...it's a pity that so many buy into the spec sheet and Solid State manufacturers whoi leave out certain measurements - re-write the definitions of others just so their products look better on the spec sheet.

Agreed, and given my recent experience, I've learned to trust my ears over my eyes. I'm not looking to get into another tube/SS debate, goodness knows there are enough of them on the forum. My main question was pertaining to mixing different amps. In the experiences you mentioned with mixing in matching, you noted that lots of people have success. How do you define success? Have you heard horror stories? Thanks for your help.

[topspeed]

As you'll be listening to music in two channel, it sounds like you'd like a 2x tube for the mains and a 3x ss for the center and surrounds. Personally, I don't take HT nearly as seriously as two channel music and you may feel the same way. Because of this, I doubt you'll have a problem running the mains off the C/J and the center and surrounds off a good ss amp...you simply won't notice. I'd try to get a warmer sounding ss amp to make the timbral match as close as possible and the 3 you've listed are all good. B&K and Audio Refinement also make great amps that lean toward the warmer side of neutral so you might include them on your list. FWIW, my friend just picked up a nip C/J 5600 on ebay for $2k. That is a sweet sounding amp and would be a nice match for the C/J tubes, although you'll have 5 channels to play with. Maybe use the 5600 for HT and get a nice passive pre w/ theater bypass hooked up to your tubes for two channel?

Good luck on building your system.