It's better an amplifier that sound warm or one that sound cold?

[Feanor]

You may wish to follow this link to a pdf file that is pretty self explanatory: http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf

On page 6 see the column, "Probability Result Due to Chance". There you will see that the were several instances where identification was very unlikely to be due to chance, viz. ...

Counterpoint vs. NAD: 5.6%
Futterman vs. Levinson: 4.6%
Futterman vs. Hafler: 5.5%

This refutes the simple assertion that differences cannot be heard -- on the contrary, it strongly implies that they can, at least between certain amps in a given setup.

[ruadmaa]

On page 6 see the column, "Probability Result Due to Chance". There you will see that the were several instances where identification was very unlikely to be due to chance, viz. ...

Counterpoint vs. NAD: 5.6%
Futterman vs. Levinson: 4.6%
Futterman vs. Hafler: 5.5%

This refutes the simple assertion that differences cannot be heard -- on the contrary, it strongly implies that they can, at least between certain amps in a given setup.

In the area to the far right, directly above listener comments the article clearly states: "But for now, the evidence would seem to suggest that distinctive amplifier sounds, if they exist at all, are so minute that they form a poor basis for choosing one amplifier over another. Certainly there are still differences between amps, but we are unlikely to hear them".

[musicoverall]

You may wish to follow this link to a pdf file that is pretty self explanatory: http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf

I'll have to check it out when I get to work in the morning. My ancient computer at home is struggling to open it.

I hope it's better than the Master's tests! Perhaps this one shows the protocol and the ancillary gear, etc? Sadly, most of what I've read so far is not very forthcoming about how they derived their results. Deliberate obfuscation rarely strengthens a point of view. But I'll definitely give it a read. Thanks!

[Feanor]

In the area to the far right, directly above listener comments the article clearly states: "But for now, the evidence would seem to suggest that distinctive amplifier sounds, if they exist at all, are so minute that they form a poor basis for choosing one amplifier over another. Certainly there are still differences between amps, but we are unlikely to hear them".

You and Master can ignore them if you like, but they they are. To his credit, Masters included them.

Bear in mind, it is in the nature of DBTs that they cannot prove that differences do not exist, only they could not be reliably identified under the circumstances of the given test. But in this case the results strongly suggest that differences did exist at least between certain units.

[musicoverall]

You and Master can ignore them if you like, but they they are. To his credit, Masters included them.

Bear in mind, it is in the nature of DBTs that they cannot prove that differences do not exist, only they could not be reliably identified under the circumstances of the given test. But in this case the results strongly suggest that differences did exist at least between certain units.

Nor could I get anything to come up when I entered the link in my address bar. Usually I can open pdf files so I'm not sure what's going on. But it sounds like a typical naysayer "let's draw errant conclusions from faulty information" test.

I'll try it again later.

[E-Stat]

Nor could I get anything to come up when I entered the link in my address bar. Usually I can open pdf files so I'm not sure what's going on. But it sounds like a typical naysayer "let's draw errant conclusions from faulty information" test.

It is an unusually well documented test using good associated stuff like an ARC pre and Maggies. The question of musical familiarity was not really addressed other than a reference that someone brought their own music.

The notion that this one test, however, answers for all time the question is kinda amusing though. As you indicated, there are other ABX tests that have proven otherwise.

rw

[musicoverall]

It is an unusually well documented test using good associated stuff like an ARC pre and Maggies. The question of musical familiarity was not really addressed other than a reference that someone brought their own music.

The notion that this one test, however, answers for all time the question is kinda amusing though. As you indicated, there are other ABX tests that have proven otherwise.

rw

You said someone "brought" their own music which would indicate the tests weren't done using the participants home system. I know you have a wonderful system, E-Stat, but I'm not sure I could pick out audible differences between two amps right off the bat. That's the same issue I have with the power cable test that was circulating around a few months ago.

Still can't open the silly thing! Grrrr....

[E-Stat]

I know you have a wonderful system, E-Stat, but I'm not sure I could pick out audible differences between two amps right off the bat. That's the same issue I have with the power cable test that was circulating around a few months ago.

No, I cannot. It takes me a while to get acclimated to any really good system. Especially spectacular systems.

Still can't open the silly thing! Grrrr....

It took me a while (at broadband speed) to initially open the document. It is a fairly large PDF.

rw

[musicoverall]

No, I cannot. It takes me a while to get acclimated to any really good system. Especially spectacular systems.


It took me a while (at broadband speed) to initially open the document. It is a fairly large PDF.

rw

I'm not able to open any of the pdf's on that site. I checked my acrobat reader and it's functioning fine so I'm not sure what the problem is. If it lists ancillary gear, it's one of the better reports on blind testing around so I'd like to give it a read. I'll keep trying.

BTW, I may be going solid state - at least on the power amp side. I have an opportunity to acquire a used Edge ML-300 which I've also had the opportunity to try out in my own system with the Maggie 20.1's. It's a much better match than the Hurricanes. The Edge exhibits none of the traits I associate with solid state gear - no electronic grain, no harshness, no (chuckle) edginess, no fatigue. It's solid state like I've never heard before, giving the Maggies a little extra juice in the nether regions. The nice thing is that the current owner and I may be making a trade (rather than me forking over cash) for some items I've been thinking about selling anyway. I thought I was past the transistors but I gotta go with my ears. Granted, there may be tubed amps with as much power that would perform better but they have proven inaccessible to me for one reason or another, usually cost.

[accastil]

different brands have different sound signatures. it is very important to realize and understand this for one to be able to set up a well balanced over all system set up. cd players, pre amps, amps, and speakers. may sound dull, bright, or balanced, depending on the brand, price category, etc. if you want an extreme example, listen to marantz and after wards, listen to harman kardon, or vice versa.

[jtgofish]

If you can't tell the difference between amps then the most likely cause is that one or more other components are in your system are not accurate.This is the ultimate definition of coloured I suppose.Bad speakers will do this.
Many people would not be able to tell the differences between wines but that does not mean that there are not describable differences.[to more evolved taste buds].

[basite]

And... can you make some examples of 'firms' (Nad, Technics, Cambridge, ecc.) that privilege a warm sound and others that privilege a cold one?

Thanks

i think that that's different for anybody.