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  1. #1
    Now with Almonds!
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    A decent 2 channel amp/int amp for MMGs

    I am going to go with a pair of MMGs, and would like advice on driving them. I am putting my YAMAHA in the family room so I need a good 2 channel @4ohm. What can I get in the $500 range? I was looking at the Creek 4330. Can anyone comment on how an Adire RAVA sub will sound with these? Thanks everyone.
    Last edited by KRiTiKaL; 09-02-2006 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Is the 86db sensitivity of the MMGs going to be a problem?

  3. #3
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Not necessarily

    Quote Originally Posted by KRiTiKaL
    Is the 86db sensitivity of the MMGs going to be a problem?
    MMGs are ironic: they require reasonable power on the one hand, but on the other they have a limited "loudness" capability.

    On the requirement side, Magnepan recommends 50 watts or more (into 4 ohms) for the MMGs. 50 watts is none too conservativ, although some people claim to drive MMGs satisfactorally with 30 watt tube amps. 100 watts is better if you want to play moderately loudly, but that raises the other issue.

    Regardless of power MMGs simply loose it if played too loud. This is especially noticable in the bass, of course, but the whole frequency range starts to sound "compressed", that is, to loose its sparkle. This is due to the inherently limited ability of the MMGs to "move air" and it won't matter if you amp is 100 watts or 1000 watts. The only solution to this is to use a subwoofer to carry the lower frequencies. It is important to use a high-pass filter to feed the amp driving the MMGs with only frequencies above 80 Hz. In this sort of configuration the MMGs can be played to quite good volume in a medium sized room without sounding too "compressed".

  4. #4
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    any reccomendations on an amp/preamp or integrated amp? I think I can go up to $1000 for something. Also any better advice on a clear sounding speaker other than the MMGs?

  5. #5
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    What type of listening do you do, ie. volume, style of music? What did you budget for the speakers?

    The Krell 300i is selling used for around $1k. It's rated at 150 wpc but the power seemed limitless. May not be a good choice if your sources aren't up to that level. Arcam integrateds have incredible speakers drive capability and sound very good. You mentioned Creek who also has very nice integrated amps. Many of the tube integrated amps start around $1k from brands like PrimaLuna and Cayin.

    My speaker preference is Dynaudio. If you drive them with quality electronics they will be clear and concise. Dynaudio builds all the speaker components themselves and have a fine product.

  6. #6
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    I listen to alot of The Eagles, Metallica, Joss Stone, Wolfmother(new fav), Eminem, etc;.... I am now seriously considering the Dyn 42s. How well will a NAD c352 drive these? there is one on audiogon. any experience with NAD and Dyn? Thanks much.

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    MMGs are hard to beat

    Quote Originally Posted by KRiTiKaL
    any reccomendations on an amp/preamp or integrated amp? I think I can go up to $1000 for something. Also any better advice on a clear sounding speaker other than the MMGs?
    No speaker comes to mind in the price range that can touch the Magneplanar MMG for acoustic music, whether classical, jazz, folk, international, or whatever. However they're not really the ticket for rock or amplified music because of the "loudness" issue I mention. Then again even there they will do not to badly if you use a subwoofer -- set the high-pass to 100Hz if possible.

    The MMGs will do justice to a very fine amp if you can afford one. Not too many sub-$1000 integrateds really offer a long term solution, IMO. One a few people have suggested is the Jolida JD 1501A which is a 100wt/ch tube/SS hybrid. If you're willing to buy use the are a lot more options, (such as the Krell Mr Peabody suggested).

  8. #8
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    I think NAD could drive the Dyn's pretty well. I personally found the NAD sound on the lean side but my NAD experience is very limited.

    For the type of music you like, if you could find the 300i at $1k that would be the ultimate and mated with Dynaudio is incredible. I guess age and market is the reason the 300i is sometimes sold that cheap, this amp is a monster. Not knocking anyone's product but the 300i is pretty far up the latter from NAD, Rotel or even Arcam.

  9. #9
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    you can also go for a denon int amp. i have the denon pma-700ae and i must say it's better than any amp in the house (even better than my dad's $1500 yamaha) it was'nt expensive ($450) also it's bigger brother the pma 1500 seems to be very good (it haves an eisa award for best int amp 2006) they should easily drive the dyn's.
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  10. #10
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    Whatever you you buy ...... make sure you have a certain amount of time to try it out, and you can return it for a full refund. Most good retailers will give you at least 7 days, because if you're not happy with your purchase , you'll not bother with them again.

    Just to throw some out there ...... the Dusssun DS99 is reputedly a gem, but only get a real one from a place called aaa-audio.com . Nad's lack resolution and highs in general to my ears ..... where Yamaha's RX and Denon's DRA series have too much treble. The only Denon integrated available to the US market is the 45lb. monster PMA-2000 IVR ..... but it is very smooth, unlike their cheaper receivers. The Music Hall A25.2 is nice. For not much , the Harman Kardon HK3480 is smooth and powerful.... don't dismiss it just because it's a receiver... it's got full pre/main in/outs with sub out. There's also the Outlaw RR2150 , which is coming back in stock later this month, it has about every input and output you'll ever dream of.

    You can get all the "advice' in the world ..... but until you bring something into your listening space ..... it's all just pie in the sky.

    Just try some and be happy !

  11. #11
    nightflier
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    How about the Musical Fidelity 3.2 (185W at 4 ohm). Here is a review:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-6-2003.html

    There is one on sale on Audiogon for $800 obo, which is a pretty good deal. I have not heard the amp myself, but it gets glowing reviews. Just out of curiosity, have you considered an amp/preamp combo? This will give you lots more options.
    I own the HK3480 and it's a very capable receiver, just a few features short of the Outlaw rr2150 which I did not like as much, by the way. That said, it's not really designed for low impedance speakers. I've driven a pair of 4 ohm tower speakers (MB Quarts) and I must say that the music sounded a bit thin and it could not really deliver solid bass these speakers are capable of. I am now driving a smaller pair of Vandersteen bookshelves and it sounds much better. I'm using the sub output to drive a seperately powered sub for the bass. Just don't try to drive two sets of speakers if either is 4 ohms / low efficiency.

  12. #12
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    I've been running my Audience 42's with a Plinius 8100 for about three years now and haven't felt the need to upgrade. I listen to some of the same music as you and I haven't been dissappointed yet.

    There aren't any on Audiogon at the moment, but I have seen 8100's and some 8200's used for around $1K. These are some of the best integrateds around for under $3K, IMO. Especially for 4 ohm, lowish sensitivity, neutral (or dry/sterile to some) loudspeakers like Totem, Audio Physic, Dynaudio, and planar/ribbon driver speakers. Do some research on Plinius.

    Another pairing that you may want to look into is Simaudio. You can find a used I-3 for around $1K as well, and the synergy is supposed to be excellent with Dynaudio. Dynaudio has used Simaudio gear to power some of their audio shows in the past.

    I know the Audience 42 is only a $900 speaker, but IMO driving them with NAD or HK is doing them a disservice. You will want to upgrade sooner or later. I did (from HK).

    Good luck in your search.

  13. #13
    nightflier
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    I agree with the Plinius plug. I have a Plinius preamp, and have yet to find a better value for the money - the most neutral I have ever heard (& certainly not dry IMO). Haven't tried their amps or integrateds, but if they are anything like their preamps, then I highly recommend the brand, certainly an order of magnitude better than NAD or HK.

  14. #14
    Audio Hobbyist Since 1969 Glen B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRiTiKaL
    any reccomendations on an amp/preamp or integrated amp? I think I can go up to $1000 for something. Also any better advice on a clear sounding speaker other than the MMGs?
    Class and Maggies work well together. A used Class CAP-100 or CAP-150 will run you about $1K.

  15. #15
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Excellent description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Regardless of power MMGs simply loose it if played too loud. This is especially noticable in the bass, of course, but the whole frequency range starts to sound "compressed", that is, to loose its sparkle. This is due to the inherently limited ability of the MMGs to "move air" and it won't matter if you amp is 100 watts or 1000 watts. The only solution to this is to use a subwoofer to carry the lower frequencies. It is important to use a high-pass filter to feed the amp driving the MMGs with only frequencies above 80 Hz. In this sort of configuration the MMGs can be played to quite good volume in a medium sized room without sounding too "compressed".
    I dercribed this as "congested" but you really nailed it here.

    I did quite well driving mine with a NAD 214 (80 wpc@ 4 ohms) but, consider also, that I was using a subwoofer thet took over below 70 hz or so.

    But, if metal and such is your chosen poison, then other speakers may be better for you.

  16. #16
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    MMGs are much better with a subwoofer

    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    I dercribed this as "congested" but you really nailed it here.

    I did quite well driving mine with a NAD 214 (80 wpc@ 4 ohms) but, consider also, that I was using a subwoofer thet took over below 70 hz or so.

    But, if metal and such is your chosen poison, then other speakers may be better for you.
    At US$550 they are huge bargain, though their value is diluted by the near necessity of using a subwoofer. The sub is virtually necessary, not only for rock, but also for classical orchestral cresendos.

    The MG 12s are significantly better and the Magneplanar MG 1.6QRs are much better still, though they're still not rockers. Of course the 12s are twice as much and the 1.6's are almost 4 times the price.

  17. #17
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    I traded the MMG's for the 1.6's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    At US$550 they are huge bargain, though their value is diluted by the near necessity of using a subwoofer. The sub is virtually necessary, not only for rock, but also for classical orchestral cresendos.

    The MG 12s are significantly better and the Magneplanar MG 1.6QRs are much better still, though they're still not rockers. Of course the 12s are twice as much and the 1.6's are almost 4 times the price.
    I would have considered the 12's but the trade in plan didn't allow that option.

    The 1.6's do go considerably louder cleanly but do require mucho power as opposed to the MMG's. They sucked the poor old 214 dry and it was easily audible on peaks. ...a loud KA-RAK when the rail voltage was exceeded. My heart stopped each time I heard it A Rotel RB-991 solved that problem but, with 300 watts at four ohms, it damn well better. It was a heckuva lot cheaper than a defibrillator.

    One other benefit with the 1.6's... I run them full range and have the sub n parallel with the preamp outs to the power amp and use only it's low pass feature, I have it set at 45 - 50 hz so it only fills in the very bottom end. The 1.6's are polite enough to simply not even try to reproduce what they aren't comfortable with.

    Asa system, it provides a clean, loud (as I would ever want), dynamic, wide range listening experience. On the right music it's almost spooky how well it emulates reality.

  18. #18
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    I'm using a Music Hall A25.2 intergrated with maggies

    Quote Originally Posted by KRiTiKaL
    I am going to go with a pair of MMGs, and would like advice on driving them. I am putting my YAMAHA in the family room so I need a good 2 channel @4ohm. What can I get in the $500 range? I was looking at the Creek 4330. Can anyone comment on how an Adire RAVA sub will sound with these? Thanks everyone.
    In my bedroom system. The Magnepan MC1's to be exact, and it works beautifully. The Music Hall has a pre-out so you can hook directly into a sub too. This 50wpc intergrated more than up to the task of driving the MC1's, or my 3.6's for that matter! There's nothing about it's sound that belies it's modest 50wpc rating, and I even like it BETTER than some of the higher powered amps I've used.

    Oh, I like classic rock too. Eagles to Led Zep, Fleetwood Mac to the Who, this amp rocked them all with aplomb.
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  19. #19
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    I wondered how those Music Hall amps were. Is the A25.2 the one that is Class A?

  20. #20
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I wondered how those Music Hall amps were. Is the A25.2 the one that is Class A?
    No, that was the now discontinued Mambo. The A25.2 is rated for 50 watts, but doubles to 100 watts into 4 ohms, and is rated to deliver current into 2 ohms. It NEVER sounded strained when driving my 3.6's.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  21. #21
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    Here's a used Plinius 8100 for $1100:

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1164120321

  22. #22
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1163723663

    Keep looking. Take your time and enjoy. Your budget will increase over time.

  23. #23
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    That's a gem

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1163723663

    Keep looking. Take your time and enjoy. Your budget will increase over time.
    Sounds like it's been rejuvinated too. You won't do much better, new or used, for under $500.

  24. #24
    nightflier
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    I've been using high powered amps for some time, but I decided to drive my MMG's with an old Adcom GFA535-II that I was using at the office, to see how that would work. It's only 60W per channel and I did have to turn the volume up a bit, but it had no problem with the speakers. Of course, that's not the type of amp I would choose for such dynamic speakers, and between my Plinius and the speakers, it looked a bit out of place, but if you're just looking for a little extra juice, that amp can be had online for the price of a few CDs.

  25. #25
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Look on audiogon for a used Adcom GFA-545 and an Adcom preamp or preamp/tuner such as a GTP-450. You should be able to buy both for around $400. The combo will have enough power for the Maggy's and if you don't like them sell them next near for what you paid for them. There is no receiver in the world that will give that kind of value. The GFA-545 is a 100wpc power amp.
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