Class D Amp

[Gradofan]

Apart from some burn-in which might be helpful, I would suspect the Monarchy M24 is obscuring some of the crispness and detail. I haven't owned the Monarchy M24, but I do know that the Monarchy is a device is that is endorsed by people, (e.g. Morricab at AudioAsylum), who prefer smoothness & warmth over maximum resolution. Tubes will frequently color and mask the sound. This could be a case of bad component synergy.

Well... I installed my DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core to analyze and correct the room acoustics... and... that cleared everything up - just seemed to be some poor room acoustics.

The Monarchy DAC / LS is pretty neutral and has great resolution, though the tubes do warm everything up a tad. It's more neutral and has better resolution than my Marantz SA-8001 SACD, which has a bit of a warm tone to it. And... this is tested with my Grado PS1000's and RS-1's, which are very revealing - moreso than any speakers available - because they eliminate the room acoustics. I was expecting the sound somewhat similar to those - it's now much closer.

I did try the Burson Soloist (all SS) before I tried the Monarchy, and it produced much the same sound - actually a little warmer, much like a Marantz.

Though, I would note that when I use DSPeaker as a pre-amp, it also helps to clear the signal up a bit - it's not as warm. Ultimately, I may get a SS pre-amp to make it as clear as possible. I used the Monarchy, because I expected a class D amp and the LS50's to be a bit cold and bright, which neither are.

I have some pretty great expectations of this combo - since a friend who has heard / had about every great set up there is reported that the with good electronics, the LS50's with the R400b sub, sound better than the Maggie 3.7's - a pretty high standard. We'll see.

[Gradofan]

Also - how are the gain adjustments on the back pannel used?

1. To correct imbalances between channels?

2. To adjust for low output from a source or pre-amp?

3. To adjust to the minimum or maximum power output of the 470C (i.e. to achieve the maximum 300 watts into 8 ohms do they need to be set to max gain)?

4. All of the above?

How are they used, and what are the cautions in using them?

I wish this amp had a manual... but... then I suppose they're intended for "technical" users.

[blackraven]

Bill, I think that you will get more transparency with a tube preamp. At least that has been my experience with my limited expereince with tube preamps and tube DAC's. I am going to get the Little Dot and roll some better tubes in it. I doubt that it will replace my AVA preamp but it will go to good use in one of my other systems- MMG's in my basement and work out area or my Monitor Audio S1's in my bedroom. It will probably be with my MMG's. I am planning to buy another Maverick to use as a tube DAC/Pre with that Dayton DTA-100a amp that I am using with my Monitor Audio's.

[Feanor]

Bill, I think that you will get more transparency with a tube preamp. At least that has been my experience with my limited expereince with tube preamps and tube DAC's. I am going to get the Little Dot and roll some better tubes in it. I doubt that it will replace my AVA preamp but it will go to good use in one of my other systems- MMG's in my basement and work out area or my Monitor Audio S1's in my bedroom. It will probably be with my MMG's. I am planning to buy another Maverick to use as a tube DAC/Pre with that Dayton DTA-100a amp that I am using with my Monitor Audio's.

The definition of "transparency" is key here.

Indeed, I have a tube preamp, my Sonic Frontiers Line 1, that I used for months with the SDS-258. The SF adds an increased "ambiance" (as I refer to it): a sense of greater depth or reverberance perhaps. (The SF is tonally neutral and adds none of the warmth often associated with tube pres.)

However this "ambiance" is not synonymous with "transparency" as I use the term. To me transparency is a combination of fine resolution plus the separation of instruments and voices in the soundstage -- some call this "air". Actually the "air" part is crucial because people some times confused the "etched" sound of some, mostly s/s, equipment which is not really the same as fine detail.

So while my SF preamp adds "ambiance", it doesn't add "air" or transparency. I consider that ambiance to be an artifact and that's why I when to a passive preamp, the Jolida, which is nothing but a decent quality potentiometer.

[harley .guy07]

You guys keep talking good things about these amps and I am going to have to try one for myself since they seem to be competitive with amps way above their price range and the build it yourself thing is something I grew up doing so that does not bother me at all. very very tempting.

[blackraven]

You guys keep talking good things about these amps and I am going to have to try one for myself since they seem to be competitive with amps way above their price range and the build it yourself thing is something I grew up doing so that does not bother me at all. very very tempting.

Harley, these amps have a different sound than SS and tube amps. They are somewhat similar to the Nuforce Model 9's in sound. I can't tell how similar because the Model 9's that I have heard are on my freinds reference system with an AR line stage tube preamp and PSB Synchrony one speakers. I guess they both sound smooth, grain free, with air and transparency. Treble seems similar. Bass is very tight and controlled. So you might really like the sound.

There is a guy on the AC forum that was having a hard time deciding whether he liked one of these amps better than his $14K class A amp which I find a little hard to believe.

[blackraven]

I agree with you Bill. What I have found with my limited experience with tube preamps and tube DAC's, mainly Van Alstine full tube and hybrid tube gear and the Maverick is that they add both air and transparency.
When I compared the AVA T-8 fully tube preamp vs his solid state pre and my current hybrid AVA pre, I found the T-8 and hybrid to have much more air, transparency and wider sound stage than the SS. The hybrid had the most air and transparency along with the widest sound stage but the T-8 was close behind. The T-8 had the warmest sound. I did not buy the T-8 because of slightly less bass and slightly rolled treble. I regret not buying it now.

All this proves is that air and transparency is dependent upon the type of gear you have. One other note, I have found that roling tubes can make a huge difference in both air and transparency. I have about 7 different brands of C6G7 tubes and they all sound different.

[Feanor]

I agree with you Bill. What I have found with my limited experience with tube preamps and tube DAC's, mainly Van Alstine full tube and hybrid tube gear and the Maverick is that they add both air and transparency.
When I compared the AVA T-8 fully tube preamp vs his solid state pre and my current hybrid AVA pre, I found the T-8 and hybrid to have much more air, transparency and wider sound stage than the SS. The hybrid had the most air and transparency along with the widest sound stage but the T-8 was close behind. The T-8 had the warmest sound. I did not buy the T-8 because of slightly less bass and slightly rolled treble. I regret not buying it now.

All this proves is that air and transparency is dependent upon the type of gear you have. One other note, I have found that roling tubes can make a huge difference in both air and transparency. I have about 7 different brands of C6G7 tubes and they all sound different.

Yep, true that air & transparency depend on the equipment. That's why I base my impressions on passive versus whatever else, since passive is as closs to no equipment as you can get.

Passives can lack dynamics but not so in my present setup. I suppose because I have good impedence matches and short cables.

Agree that tube rolling does make a difference as I found with my SF. The best tubes I found for it are Amperex US-made, white label, 'PQ' 6922's -- warmer and with more of the aforementioned ambiance than others I tried.

[blackraven]

Ajani, what preamp and speaks will you be using? I found the CDA amp to be ever so slightly on the sunny side of neutral.

[Ajani]

Ajani, what preamp and speaks will you be using? I found the CDA amp to be ever so slightly on the sunny side of neutral.

Benchmark DAC1 as DAC/Pre and Revel M22 speakers...

[frenchmon]

Benchmark DAC1 as DAC/Pre and Revel M22 speakers...

Wow! How you liking the M22's? They are on my short list.

In the end I will have a shootout with the M22' and a set of Vento's 820 I suppose.

[Ajani]

Wow! How you liking the M22's? They are on my short list.

In the end I will have a shootout with the M22' and a set of Vento's 820 I suppose.

I'll let you know when I get them... I strongly suspect that the DAC1/SDS470/M22 combo is the kind of sound I'm looking for.... + it will be easy to move whenever I migrate again...

[harley .guy07]

That is not the first time I have heard these amps compared to very expensive amps and most of the time the Class D's win or it seems they do. If they are like the Nuforce amps I probably will like them since I like their preamp very much and with their price they are a steal in the world of high end audio. If I have to buy a case to put the circuits in and wire it myself then oh well I think it will be fun since it has been a while since I have had my hands on a electrical component build. My Debit card is itching in my wallet wanting to just order the SDS 258 and forget about it but I am getting married next month and have some other thing going right now but after things settle down I think I am going to order one and retire my Adcom to rear speaker duty since it is getting older.

[blackraven]

Ajani, if you decide to get the SDS-470 kit, this company makes a nice aluminum case for about $65 depending upon the size. I've seen pictures or a completed case on the Audio Circles forum.

Par-Metal

I am going to order a 12x12x5 or 16x12x5 clear anodized case. You can also get them in Black.

[Ajani]

Ajani, if you decide to get the SDS-470 kit, this company makes a nice aluminum case for about $65 depending upon the size. I've seen pictures or a completed case on the Audio Circles forum.

Par-Metal

I am going to order a 12x12x5 or 16x12x5 clear anodized case. You can also get them in Black.

I'll just buy the completed SDS-470 amp from Class D Audio... I'd prefer not to have to assemble it myself...