Cambridge Audio Azur 540A VS. NAD C320 BEE

[Peter_Klim]

BTW, a rotary knob doesn't mean 'infinite volume settings'. The knob is just an interface, it can still be adjusting a digital control with big steps.

noddin0ff

Yeah, I know:

"My newer Onkyo (TX-DS777 used for HT w/the JBL L-series) has the digital knob"

So does the Parasound Halo P3 I wrote about.

Sorry for the confusion.

The Parasound steps are too far apart, especially if using the XLRs. The Onkyo's is much better (it has about double the amount of steps and it may have a different gain).

In a way the digital ones are better, because there is less chance of dust messing up their contact (which can result in a static sound when adjusting the volume).

[Walker]

I received my Cambridge audio azur 540 a yesterday, Topspeed warned me for the first 50 hours so I'm not getting in to the disappointing sound. It needs quite some break in I understand.
Besides this I have some questions for CA azur owners.

1: Is it normal that the Treble and Bass knobs do hardly anything?

2: Te volume, treble and bass knobs have little blue dots on them, I thought that at least the volume knob would have a little light on it, mine does not, is this how it should be?

3: I have to turn the volume up till about 11 'o clock to get a decent volume, is this ok or are my speakers to demanding for this amp (B&W 603 s2)

Thanks for info,
Walker (I'll comment about the sound after 50 hours, cd player has been on repeat since yesterday night)

[Peter_Klim]

I received my Cambridge audio azur 540 a yesterday, Topspeed warned me for the first 50 hours so I'm not getting in to the disappointing sound. It needs quite some break in I understand.
Besides this I have some questions for CA azur owners.

1: Is it normal that the Treble and Bass knobs do hardly anything?

2: Te volume, treble and bass knobs have little blue dots on them, I thought that at least the volume knob would have a little light on it, mine does not, is this how it should be?

3: I have to turn the volume up till about 11 'o clock to get a decent volume, is this ok or are my speakers to demanding for this amp (B&W 603 s2)

Thanks for info,
Walker (I'll comment about the sound after 50 hours, cd player has been on repeat since yesterday night)

What does it sound like past 11:00? Is the end result better than you last unit? Like I said in my last post or 2, gains on amps very. My brothers newer Onkyo is the same way (except its a pushbutton volume control, so there is no clock position).

And like topseed replied to one of my comments, the volume knob, unfortunately, does not have a light in it (it sure does look like it form the pictures I've seen )

[Walker]

Past 11 it sounds like 9 on my HK avr75, It clearly has to work a lot harder to feed the speakers. I can't really comment on the quality of the sound because of the break in, so far it does not sound rich but rather thin.

Do you know anything about the bas and treble on this amp, is it normal that it's hardly noticable when I turn it all the way

[Peter_Klim]

Hardly noticeable when you turn it "ALL" the way up???
You mean all the way up, or just past 11:00 it sound like a 9 on your HK?

I never listened to the amp. But I'll say this based on my old 45w/ch receiver:
9 should be a bit more than moderate level, or at least well enough past background music levels, and enough to be heard by someone in another room.

For a few seconds, have it cranked up till it just barely starts to distort and evaluate.

Any 45 watt amp/receiver should play loud with the speakers you have.

[noddin0ff]

Walker,

at 11:00 on my unit, the volume is moderate to low (moderate in a 10x12ft room w/ bookshelf speakers). 11:00 is about 1/3 of the range of the volume knob. I've never cranked mine, its in a work space. But what you described matches my ears.

The operating instructions (p.11) say the tone controls 'allow subtle adjustments'. I wouldn't expect them allow total defeat of bass or treble. I'd say that compared to receivers I've had that the tone controls on the CA don't do as much.

hope this helps.

noddin0ff

[Tons of Fun]

Hello People
Just to let you know that I have newly registered at the behest of my employers (Audio Partnership) to attempt to provide some manufacturer support for Cambridge Audio and Mordaunt Short. I am more easily found at the AVForums run in the UK but I will do my level best to deal with any inquiries you guys have although I suspect that most of my replies will be in the middle of the night.
Cheers
Ed

[Walker]

Hi Tons of fun and others,
I have some questions about my new 540a.
I'm a little concerned about the power of this amp. I have to crank it to 12 o'clock (on some older cd's, Fleetwood Mac Rumors) to get some feel of a powerful sound. It's probably still breaking in (played it for about 30 hours now) but I must say that the lower end is almost completely lacking. The sound is very thin and not at all convincing. The detail is great, much better than my HK and Onkyo, especially in the drums it's incredible what I have been missing.
But again I could not throw a good party with it the way it sounds now, you don't feel it; basically it does not rock (yet). Is this normal for this amp (after only 30 hours on low levels most of the time) or are my speakers a wrong match?
Thanks for advice.

Cambridge Audio Azur 540A
Speakers B&W 603s2
CD-player NAD C521i
Good cables

[Geoffcin]

Hi Tons of fun and others,
I have some questions about my new 540a.
I'm a little concerned about the power of this amp. I have to crank it to 12 o'clock (on some older cd's, Fleetwood Mac Rumors) to get some feel of a powerful sound. It's probably still breaking in (played it for about 30 hours now) but I must say that the lower end is almost completely lacking. The sound is very thin and not at all convincing. The detail is great, much better than my HK and Onkyo, especially in the drums it's incredible what I have been missing.
But again I could not throw a good party with it the way it sounds now, you don't feel it; basically it does not rock (yet). Is this normal for this amp (after only 30 hours on low levels most of the time) or are my speakers a wrong match?
Thanks for advice.

Your amp is now giving your speakers what you feed it. The fact that there's less bottom end is not because your amp is not driving your speakers well, in fact it's driving them BETTER. What you used to think was good bass, was actually distortion caused by your old amps inability to control your woofer, allowing it to distort. This is a common problem with amps that have low damping factor. The fact the the drums sound better is a hallmark of a good amp.The sudden attack of a drum strike, and the shimmer of a cymble with mulitple harmonics are very difficult things to reproduce well.

With your speakers the amp is not really working unless your've got it really load. So if your worried about turning your volume up and "blowing" something don't. You want your speakers to rock? Turn up the VOLUME! You'll find that as it get's louder there's more apparent bass, as human hearing is very non-linear in the bass range. My guess, and it's an educated one, as my buddy has the same speakers as you do for surrounds, is that your speakers will ROCK is your just turn it up a bit.

[hertz]

Synergy is a big factor in achieving good audio.B&W 's are not very easy to drive speakers. Although they are specified to be around 90 db I have found them to be very difficult to drive unless you have lots of high current power.The dealer whom I know uses high power Rotel amps with them.They drive them perfectly well. Why don't you do an home demo of any high power amps like the Nad c 372, higher powered CA amps or some Rotel high power amps to drive away all the doubts that you have...

[Walker]

Thanks Noddin,
It's good to know that it's normal for this amp, I'm just not used to ever have the volume over 12 o clock but I'll get used to it. How long did it take you to break it in and did it make a big difference?
Thanks,
Walker

[noddin0ff]

Hi Walker,

I can't comment on the break-in period of the amp because I was simultaneously breaking in new speakers. I'm sure there are many opposing opinions but, in MY opinion, there is very little 'break-in' for an amp. My bet is that the the majority of the 'burn-in' occurs between the listeners ears. Speakers being mechanical, definately need to loosen up. I'd say all-in-all, three days of use and any further change will require golden ears in ideal listening environs to hear... assuming that the change is not in one's head...

Regarding your power crisis...have you turned it up past 12? (Well,it's one louder isn't it?) Does the amp get loud enough when you keep going? I wouldn't put to much emphasis on dial position vs loudness. For example my Yamaha at home gives the volume in -dB. The numerical given changes linearly with the know rotation (for the most part, it actually depends on how fast you turn too). But, perceived loudness from the speaker does not have a linear correlation with the number. So, for most of the range say -80 to -40 (-0 being max loudest) there's not much difference. But in contrast, between -30 and -25 there's significant difference. As I mentioned I can't crank my CA540, but I'm guessing that the volume increases more noticably per o'clock the farther you go.

Find out.

If there's still a volume deficit, maybe you should compare to other 50wpc amps. Maybe you just want more?

noddin0ff

[topspeed]

Hey Walker,

Sorry to hear the Azur isn't meeting your expectations. My experience was that the bottom end filled in considerably during burn-in, still it probably won't be to the extent that you were either expecting or are accustomed to. There's a good chance that your previous Onkyo presented a very different sound, possibly with an exaggerated bid-bass hump or something. I don't think it's so much a problem of the CA not mixing with the B&W's as it is your personal preferences.

As for the volume position, you're putting way too much thought into this. The volume is what it is. Seriously, on mine I've barely got the knob past it's base line around 7 o'clock and the slightest change merits huge differences in sound levels. Ah yes, the joy of 95dB speaks .

At this point, you need to seriously consider either:
1) The CA is defective
2) The return policy of your dealer

See if you can borrow a demo to verify #1 otherwise look into the NAD. As I mentioned before, it did have a better bottom end to my ears.

Good luck.

[Walker]

Hi Topspeed,
I'm still hoping for a good change after burn-in. Except for the low end it sounds wonderful, detail is so much better than the hk and the onkyo.
I used bookshelves (B&W 601i) for many years and was now hoping (with my floor standing speakers and new amp) for a bigger and richer sound. I'm not there yet, maybe tomorrow.
If not, I guess its part of an ongoing hobby.
Thanks for your help and I’ll keep you posted (did not dare to try Level 42 yet)
Walker

[hertz]

One point.The position of the volume control does not mean anything.It depends on the design.I once tried out the NAD c 350, c 320bee and c 370 at home. The volume control of the c 370 goes all the way to max without distorting the sound but the max undistorted sound in the c 350 and c320 bee is the 1' o clock position.But overall the 370 is a more powerfull amp but to get more power out of it, I had to go past 2 o' clock position.It all depends on the design.I bought the c 350 due to budget constraints and I rarely go past 11' o clock position and I am very happy.

You could check if your vol control is designed like the c 370 by cranking it all the way up.Be carefull when you do this though.If you are distorting the sound as you go up, you need a new amp.If the sound stays clean and undistorted and the amp is not getting heated up, you are ok with what you have.

Clean,defined bass and thumpy, bloated bass are different things. Most amps like the Nad and CA will give you undistorted, clean, fast bass.It is very well extended also. Except for badly recorded stuff, you shouldn't have a problem in this department keeping the tone controls at the off(flat) position. You need to check out the speaker placement, interconnects and speaker cables also..
Have fun.

[noddin0ff]

Look Sharp! sounds great. Really, well, for lack of a better word...sharp! The remaster puts back a lot more of the punk punch. I upgraded that one from cassette so no question it was better. Now, thanks to Topspeed, I'm going to have to go and drop some bills on Jumpin' Jive, again, (a desert island top 10 in my opinion). In general, just about every remaster from the 80's sounds better. The first issues were seldom well done. I actually bough two Police Ghost in the Machine CDs several years apart that sounded way worse than cassette. I'm still p*ssed about that. Did it ever get done right?

I don't know how many Jazz fans are reading (but since we're drifting off topic anyway). Some worth while remasters of some must haves include 1) Miles Davis Kind of Blue, 2) Dave Brubeck Take Five, and my personal fave Charles Mingus Mingus Ah Um. All worth the upgrade. The Bonus Tracks on Ah Um are good.

noddin0ff

[Walker]

I used the CA 540a for over a week now and I'm still bouncing between happy and miserable. Sometimes the sound is annoying and I have to play another cd. Tonight I’m going to do a (semi blind ) test with some friend. I’m going to compare the CA to my Onkyo and HK. I now know exactly witch cd’s sound good and bad on this amp so I’m curious to find out if I’m getting crazy or not.
I’ll report on my test tomorrow.
Maybe I’m just not worthy.
Walker

[topspeed]

Good luck and remember what Geoff said: You're hearing the truth.

As your rig becomes more and more revealing and transparent, it becomes less forgiving, especially of sh!tty recordings. It's a double edged sword my friend. The payoff is when you hear great recordings where you not only hear the music but are emotionally involved with it. Overly romanticized? Not at all, I'm dead serious. You'll know it when you hear it.

BTW, you're not going crazy. If anything, the wool has finally been removed from your eyes (ok, ears).

[topspeed]

The P3 is a very nice pre-amp, Peter. The pictures of the Azur's volume knob make it look like it's a pin light, much like the power and source lights. Alas, it is but a blue piece of plastic.

Digital potentiometers are great in .5dB increments, which is what the Denon does. However, my old PS Audio 4.6 preamp used an analog Nobel attenuator and worked flawlessly for 15 years. I'm an idiot for selling that thing...

The volume pot on my Marantz 2230 is another story. It had to be rebuilt within an inch of its life when I did a full tune-up about 6 months ago. Of course, the old Marantz's are notorious for this problem.

[hertz]

The treble and bass adjustments won't do much damage to the overall tone because decent amp companies like CA, NAD etc.. design them to work at the frequency extremes.So if the music you are hearing does not have much extreme info, it can't do much.This is a good design principle but poorly understood by people used to tone controls found in Japanese amps.
I think the Nad 320bee would have been a better choice because it has been measured to have almost 80 watts per channel although it is speced to 50 watts.I tested it once with my inneficient speakers and it drove them better than a 100 watt nakamichi amp.