Attn: 300a, Rga

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

While he only received it recently, and has less than 100 hours on it, he then purchased the ASL Tulip 2a3 and found it MUCH more to his liking. Of course, he has spend even less time with it. Still, in his words; "This is what I like, a amp that plays great right out of the box"... "The build quality of the Tulip is much better than the SI-15, and a little bit heavier." The Tulip lists for $1099 and is a true SET. The max output is 3.5wpc, the MGSi15 DT is a pentode run in triode rated at 15wpc. Depending on your choice of speaker this is important. As a reference, I use a 3.5wpc 45 SET with a three way dynamic speaker system rated 93db [gentle impedance curve, 8ohm, simple x-over]. There are many factors that come into play other than wpc and efficiency [room, listener position, music / loudness preference, partnering components] but a mid 80db speaker is not going to work well with 3wpc. Though at present I'm using mini-monitors rated at 86db and with most of my music this combo swings just fine. Just don't ask it to play complex passages or 90+db levels. Of course, being a small two way, it has no bass - nor designed to - regardless the amplification.

I realize this is not a very accurate comparision between the two amps. And while my friend is somewhat new to low-powered tube amps he is very familiar with tubes, and audio in general. I'm not familliar with either of the two products or amps at this price point but I have read many complimentary reviews about the ASL product and the Tulip in particular. Which probably has more to do with it's SET topology than anything else. And to clarify my alligence, I own a 45 SET myself and couldn't be happier. Even with the less than ideal speaker partnership [93db+3.5wpc]. YMMV. Tells us more about the profile of your system and replay preference and if you are considering any upgrades in the near future that may impact your decision of amplification device.

MikE

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=1

[300A]

First I used to be a SET man, but not anymore, and I heard alot of SET amps.

I have heard some PP and SS amps that sound much better than any SET amp, and don't have the limitations of low power output.

They have better midrange magic as well as better bass and highs and without needing a sub to extend the bass of horns and single drivers, which really don't go very low, although the claims are out there. There are other amps with much much better imaging too.

After years in the SET market, and then listening to some really great amps again, I now realize how deficient SETs really are.

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

I'm curious what equipment - specifically amp + speaker - you speaking when you made the "much better than SET" statement. Any info on specific brands/model/tube compliment/mods[if any], partnering components, room, listener distance, music type and volume levels would also be helpful to put your opinions in context. And what is your opinion on the issue of system compatibity. I.E. All systems have strenghts and weak points and will not perform equally well for all listeners / music types.Thanks.

MikE

[300A]

I'm curious what equipment - specifically amp + speaker - you speaking when you made the "much better than SET" statement. Any info on specific brands/model/tube compliment/mods[if any], partnering components, room, listener distance, music type and volume levels would also be helpful to put your opinions in context. And what is your opinion on the issue of system compatibity. I.E. All systems have strenghts and weak points and will not perform equally well for all listeners / music types.Thanks.

MikE

I have heard the amp brands listed in my above post, vsmp(?) speakers, modified System Audios, B&W 802s. Rooms typical etc etc etc. Testing is sometimes side by side.

The point is I have found out the SETs are deficient in a lot of areas since listening to these newer components.

Lack of bass is one of them. Speakers to only 50/75hz just aren't producing accurate, or quantity bass that sounds right. Technically, Horns drop off at 36db per octave, and single drivers 12db. And they sound that way.
Sorry but I am sick of trying to add subs to get it to sound right. Some systems I have heard don't use them and they just aren't cutting it either.

I hear the problems with single driver cones breaking up and they don't cover the highs and lows either. It is becoming more annoying. The horns distort and don't give a very good soundstage.

System capatibility works some, but doesn't fix all the problems I am hearing. Tonal balance may be fine, but I am finding the SETs just don't have the imaging, depth, soundstage that some other components have that I have heard.

I am seeing SETs being clearly eclipsed by some of the newer technology coming out. And these are components that work with regular efficiency speakers. The System Audio, B&W 802s are only 88/89fdb efficient.

Actually, SETs always left me with a sense that something was wrong. Maybe it was the soundstaging/depth problem, lack of bass and highs, getting the sub to match the rest of the system, or a combination.
After listening to the newer systems, it became obviously to me that we were listening to just one parameter, midrange, while neglecting all the other areas of audio.

I have certainly tried over the years and heard lots of other systems, trying to match, but I have come to realize that there are just too many problems with SETs. The newer stuff is just more complete sounding to me.

[RGA]

I'm not here to defend sets as I've only heard one for any length of time. The Audio Note Soro. With my speakers the sound was quite exceptional - I didn't even know it was a set...bass was deep tight and full. But these are not your 3 watters either. 12-18 watt Sets in their lower levels is still pretty powerful as tubes go. And they need higher efficiency than the B&W's which present much more diffcult imopredence loads than say Audio Note's own speakers.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_01.jpg
http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_02.jpg

[300A]

I'm not here to defend sets as I've only heard one for any length of time. The Audio Note Soro. With my speakers the sound was quite exceptional - I didn't even know it was a set...bass was deep tight and full. But these are not your 3 watters either. 12-18 watt Sets in their lower levels is still pretty powerful as tubes go. And they need higher efficiency than the B&W's which present much more diffcult imopredence loads than say Audio Note's own speakers.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_01.jpg
http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_02.jpg

RGA, the B&Ws etc were with the more powerful amps, not the SETs. No one would use a B&W with an SET amp, at least I don't think so.

Wanted to clear this up.

What speakers are you using to get this tight, powerful bass?

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

Thanks but you didn't address any of my questions. I was asking about what SPECIFIC SET amps and partnering speakers you have prior experience, that lead to your conclusions. Your response, "I have heard the amp brands listed in my above post." The only amps listed were two PP and one SS amp. Again, what SET amps have you heard? I respect your right to voice your opinion. I was just looking for a little context to better interpret your position. Your rebuttle was too generic. What "new stuff" are you talking about? Of course, that is your choice... and our's... in what is revealed... and evaluated.

MikE

[300A]

Thanks but you didn't address any of my questions. I was asking about what SPECIFIC SET amps and partnering speakers you have prior experience, that lead to your conclusions. Your response, "I have heard the amp brands listed in my above post." The only amps listed were two PP and one SS amp. Again, what SET amps have you heard? I respect your right to voice your opinion. I was just looking for a little context to better interpret your position. Your rebuttle was too generic. What "new stuff" are you talking about? Of course, that is your choice... and our's... in what is revealed... and evaluated.

MikE

I am not going to get into all kinds of discussions over this. Over the years I have heard Wavelength, Bottlehead modified and straight, Midwest Audio, Wright etc. Edgarhorns, Fostex, Lowthers etc but time has passed so I cannot remember exactly which models of speakers. I have heard alot of homebrew of both speakers and amps too. Can't remember it all.

For awhile I liked the SETs but now I can honestly say at least one SS I have heard is blowing them away. The X250 with vmps(?) speakers were simply incredible ( that is the highest compliment I can express). It was that good, lifelike. The VTL PP 300bs 70/70s (modded) and SAS Audio Labs 25 watters were also just incredible.

New stuff is becoming available and I am going to hopefully keep up (finances the limit). When I can I hope to evaluate some more models. I am sure many will not sound that good, but one never knows when another great amp will come along.