Attn: 300a, Rga

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

I'm curious what equipment - specifically amp + speaker - you speaking when you made the "much better than SET" statement. Any info on specific brands/model/tube compliment/mods[if any], partnering components, room, listener distance, music type and volume levels would also be helpful to put your opinions in context. And what is your opinion on the issue of system compatibity. I.E. All systems have strenghts and weak points and will not perform equally well for all listeners / music types.Thanks.

MikE

[300A]

I'm curious what equipment - specifically amp + speaker - you speaking when you made the "much better than SET" statement. Any info on specific brands/model/tube compliment/mods[if any], partnering components, room, listener distance, music type and volume levels would also be helpful to put your opinions in context. And what is your opinion on the issue of system compatibity. I.E. All systems have strenghts and weak points and will not perform equally well for all listeners / music types.Thanks.

MikE

I have heard the amp brands listed in my above post, vsmp(?) speakers, modified System Audios, B&W 802s. Rooms typical etc etc etc. Testing is sometimes side by side.

The point is I have found out the SETs are deficient in a lot of areas since listening to these newer components.

Lack of bass is one of them. Speakers to only 50/75hz just aren't producing accurate, or quantity bass that sounds right. Technically, Horns drop off at 36db per octave, and single drivers 12db. And they sound that way.
Sorry but I am sick of trying to add subs to get it to sound right. Some systems I have heard don't use them and they just aren't cutting it either.

I hear the problems with single driver cones breaking up and they don't cover the highs and lows either. It is becoming more annoying. The horns distort and don't give a very good soundstage.

System capatibility works some, but doesn't fix all the problems I am hearing. Tonal balance may be fine, but I am finding the SETs just don't have the imaging, depth, soundstage that some other components have that I have heard.

I am seeing SETs being clearly eclipsed by some of the newer technology coming out. And these are components that work with regular efficiency speakers. The System Audio, B&W 802s are only 88/89fdb efficient.

Actually, SETs always left me with a sense that something was wrong. Maybe it was the soundstaging/depth problem, lack of bass and highs, getting the sub to match the rest of the system, or a combination.
After listening to the newer systems, it became obviously to me that we were listening to just one parameter, midrange, while neglecting all the other areas of audio.

I have certainly tried over the years and heard lots of other systems, trying to match, but I have come to realize that there are just too many problems with SETs. The newer stuff is just more complete sounding to me.

[RGA]

I'm not here to defend sets as I've only heard one for any length of time. The Audio Note Soro. With my speakers the sound was quite exceptional - I didn't even know it was a set...bass was deep tight and full. But these are not your 3 watters either. 12-18 watt Sets in their lower levels is still pretty powerful as tubes go. And they need higher efficiency than the B&W's which present much more diffcult imopredence loads than say Audio Note's own speakers.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_01.jpg
http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_02.jpg

[300A]

I'm not here to defend sets as I've only heard one for any length of time. The Audio Note Soro. With my speakers the sound was quite exceptional - I didn't even know it was a set...bass was deep tight and full. But these are not your 3 watters either. 12-18 watt Sets in their lower levels is still pretty powerful as tubes go. And they need higher efficiency than the B&W's which present much more diffcult imopredence loads than say Audio Note's own speakers.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_01.jpg
http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/a..._11-2k2_02.jpg

RGA, the B&Ws etc were with the more powerful amps, not the SETs. No one would use a B&W with an SET amp, at least I don't think so.

Wanted to clear this up.

What speakers are you using to get this tight, powerful bass?

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

Thanks but you didn't address any of my questions. I was asking about what SPECIFIC SET amps and partnering speakers you have prior experience, that lead to your conclusions. Your response, "I have heard the amp brands listed in my above post." The only amps listed were two PP and one SS amp. Again, what SET amps have you heard? I respect your right to voice your opinion. I was just looking for a little context to better interpret your position. Your rebuttle was too generic. What "new stuff" are you talking about? Of course, that is your choice... and our's... in what is revealed... and evaluated.

MikE

[300A]

Thanks but you didn't address any of my questions. I was asking about what SPECIFIC SET amps and partnering speakers you have prior experience, that lead to your conclusions. Your response, "I have heard the amp brands listed in my above post." The only amps listed were two PP and one SS amp. Again, what SET amps have you heard? I respect your right to voice your opinion. I was just looking for a little context to better interpret your position. Your rebuttle was too generic. What "new stuff" are you talking about? Of course, that is your choice... and our's... in what is revealed... and evaluated.

MikE

I am not going to get into all kinds of discussions over this. Over the years I have heard Wavelength, Bottlehead modified and straight, Midwest Audio, Wright etc. Edgarhorns, Fostex, Lowthers etc but time has passed so I cannot remember exactly which models of speakers. I have heard alot of homebrew of both speakers and amps too. Can't remember it all.

For awhile I liked the SETs but now I can honestly say at least one SS I have heard is blowing them away. The X250 with vmps(?) speakers were simply incredible ( that is the highest compliment I can express). It was that good, lifelike. The VTL PP 300bs 70/70s (modded) and SAS Audio Labs 25 watters were also just incredible.

New stuff is becoming available and I am going to hopefully keep up (finances the limit). When I can I hope to evaluate some more models. I am sure many will not sound that good, but one never knows when another great amp will come along.

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

I believe your response - however limited - is sufficient to shed light on your previous statement.

I am not going to get into all kinds of discussions over this.

I thought that was the purpose for forums such as this. Though I realize that we can pick and choose with whom and to what extent we elaborate. I just enjoy sharing my experience with others, especially those that have similiar associations - regardless our conclusions. As one much wisher than I said, "The PP and SET camps tend to divide along the lines of musical tastes." Which doesn't mean that a PP can't play simple music but that THAT is the strenght of SET. Like using a tractor for your rush hour commute - not the best application of technology. At the level of replay that I'm at, or wish to aspire, it comes down to synergy and knowing exactly what I'm wanting to achieve and then finding the best [within my means] technology to satisfy that end. One system can not do all things equally well. Often satisfaction comes from choosing wishly among the myriad of choices. And like most things in life, first you must know yourself.

MikE

[300A]

I believe your response - however limited - is sufficient to shed light on your previous statement.



I thought that was the purpose for forums such as this. Though I realize that we can pick and choose with whom and to what extent we elaborate. I just enjoy sharing my experience with others, especially those that have similiar associations - regardless our conclusions. As one much wisher than I said, "The PP and SET camps tend to divide along the lines of musical tastes." Which doesn't mean that a PP can't play simple music but that THAT is the strenght of SET. Like using a tractor for your rush hour commute - not the best application of technology. At the level of replay that I'm at, or wish to aspire, it comes down to synergy and knowing exactly what I'm wanting to achieve and then finding the best [within my means] technology to satisfy that end. One system can not do all things equally well. Often satisfaction comes from choosing wishly among the myriad of choices. And like most things in life, first you must know yourself.
MikE

SETs, SS, and PP tube amps all have room acoustics, and other setup procedures to deal with, so I am not going to get into an exchange like I have seen at other sites. Enough said on that.

With that said, the amps l listed above are, in my opinion, beating the SETs at there own game as well as in other areas such as better bass, highs, soundstage, just sounding more live and real than any of the SETs I have heard over the years. I am hearing depth and width, etc I haven't heard before. And I am hearing the same, if not better nuisances than the efficienct speakers, which I have been hearing are required to reproduce the smallest inner details.

"Like using a tractor for your rush hour commute - not the best application of technology." They are clearly beating the SETs hands down, in my opinion.

"At the level of replay that I'm at, or wish to aspire, it comes down to synergy and knowing exactly what I'm wanting to achieve and then finding the best [within my means] technology to satisfy that end. One system can not do all things equally well. Often satisfaction comes from choosing wishly among the myriad of choices. And like most things in life, first you must know yourself."

I have heard "synergy" many times before, same with SS and PP amps etc as well. And the synergy I heard was unbelievable. One system may not be able to do all things well, but these amps I have heard are certainly doing more things right and better than any of the SETs I have heard and tried. And I realize that synergy doesn't fix all the problems as I have been led to believe. To expect a $500 or $1000 amp, with upgrades, to be the best in the world, or better than SS and PP is simply a farse, no matter how good the synergy is.

I do think SETs probably helped designers realize the weaknesses of their own SS and PP designs, and they seem to be improving them. Unbelieveably, extemely clear and open sounding. Only problem is affording these systems.