Around $1,000: Receiver or Seperates?

[RGA]

As for the Money break-down I would do as the others have said and do home theater later -- get two channel audio done right -- you will fnd that many 2 channel audio companies have little interest in gizmos like home theater.

Dynaudio is one of the best slim line designed speakers currently on the market -- luckily the slim line design is not the ONLY kind of cabinet design out there but it is the most common so you are likely to hear the same KIND of sound from most others of similar shape.

In your budget you would do well to look at tube amplification and higher sensitivity speakers. This is my prefernece in music listening and it may be yours. Worth a shot to find out.

[kexodusc]

As for the Money break-down I would do as the others have said and do home theater later -- get two channel audio done right -- you will fnd that many 2 channel audio companies have little interest in gizmos like home theater.

How snobby, and misleading. Home theater is a "gizmo" now?
There's absoulutely no reason why you can't have your cake and eat it too. If one company doesn't believe it's possible, that tells me they're not trying hard enough.

Dynaudio is one of the best slim line designed speakers currently on the market -- luckily the slim line design is not the ONLY kind of cabinet design out there but it is the most common so you are likely to hear the same KIND of sound from most others of similar shape.

"Slim line" cabinets do not share a similar sound with one another anymore than Cerwin Vegas sound like Audio Notes. In fact, cabinet shape itself is probably the smallest contributor to the sound overall.

[RGA]

How snobby, and misleading. Home theater is a "gizmo" now?
There's absoulutely no reason why you can't have your cake and eat it too. If one company doesn't believe it's possible, that tells me they're not trying hard enough.

Not snobby some are into music reproduction not movies -- some are not in it JUST for the bucks -- there are easier ways to get that.

"Slim line" cabinets do not share a similar sound with one another anymore than Cerwin Vegas sound like Audio Notes. In fact, cabinet shape itself is probably the smallest contributor to the sound overall.

Most sound very much alike in the vocal band especially. There are other factors besides cabinet -- but good companies don't treat the cabinet as a necessary evil -- and they play a major part in the resulting sound. And actually Cerwin Vegas at least have high efficiency and some balls in the bass...totally unrefined and sloppy as they are they are inexpensive. Why use 4 six inch woofers where one can get more bass and better bass from a single 8? If the cabinet plays no role what does? Clearly amarketing dream but not IMO a sonic dream.

[RGA]

Jon

The best thing to do is listen to complete systems. This is not always easy because it requires a good dealer in your town who is also an audiophile who spent hours putting together well matched stereos. Many high end dealers are just out to sell the most expensive box they can and could care less if you ever enjoy it or not.

I happen to be buiding a system from a company who makes every part of the audio chain from the CD Transport and Digital Analog converters to the Many many amplifiers (power amps, preamps, Integrated amps, monoblocks, to all of the cabling (speaker cables and interconnects), as well as the turntables, arms, cartridges, step up transformers, right down to the soldering material. It is easy for customers here because everything is well matched to eachother. (there are a few companies like this who build the entire chain but most lack in one or more areas).

So without such companies you have to mix and match and this can be done well but it can also be done very poorly even IF you buy very good componants. Bryston makes great amps -- but they can sound horrific in some many set-ups.

To give you an example -- I was reading a review of Audio Note Conquest Mono-block Power amps (tube amps of 9 watts per channel) and they were testing the amps on several speakers including mine. They noted that with some of the other amps they had on hand (including tube amps) that my speakers sounded quite good but coloured -- they also noted that with the Conquest the colourations vanished. The speaker was telling the reviewer what colouration was in his amplifiers.

In lieu of companies like that it is a guessing game as to which is going to work with your speakers best -- some speaker makers recommend certain amplifiers and cd players so you can get a general idea of what the manufacturer preferred. This is helpful if the speaker maker is small. SP technologies' owner really liked the Jolida gear hooked up for example. This article may help you do evaluations of equipment. It is biased because a company did write the thing -- but it will apply no matter which brand you are considering. It requires significant listening -- but then it should. http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm

[JonW]

Jon

The best thing to do is listen to complete systems. This is not always easy because it requires a good dealer in your town who is also an audiophile who spent hours putting together well matched stereos. Many high end dealers are just out to sell the most expensive box they can and could care less if you ever enjoy it or not.

I happen to be buiding a system from a company who makes every part of the audio chain from the CD Transport and Digital Analog converters to the Many many amplifiers (power amps, preamps, Integrated amps, monoblocks, to all of the cabling (speaker cables and interconnects), as well as the turntables, arms, cartridges, step up transformers, right down to the soldering material. It is easy for customers here because everything is well matched to eachother. (there are a few companies like this who build the entire chain but most lack in one or more areas).

So without such companies you have to mix and match and this can be done well but it can also be done very poorly even IF you buy very good componants. Bryston makes great amps -- but they can sound horrific in some many set-ups.

To give you an example -- I was reading a review of Audio Note Conquest Mono-block Power amps (tube amps of 9 watts per channel) and they were testing the amps on several speakers including mine. They noted that with some of the other amps they had on hand (including tube amps) that my speakers sounded quite good but coloured -- they also noted that with the Conquest the colourations vanished. The speaker was telling the reviewer what colouration was in his amplifiers.

In lieu of companies like that it is a guessing game as to which is going to work with your speakers best -- some speaker makers recommend certain amplifiers and cd players so you can get a general idea of what the manufacturer preferred. This is helpful if the speaker maker is small. SP technologies' owner really liked the Jolida gear hooked up for example. This article may help you do evaluations of equipment. It is biased because a company did write the thing -- but it will apply no matter which brand you are considering. It requires significant listening -- but then it should. http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm

Hey RGA,

Thanks for the thoughts. I live in a small town. So my shopping will have to be done on trips to cities. But it should be fun to do. Certainly it will be much easier if I can find a few stores in which to do some good A to B comparisons. We shall see.

[46minaudio]

Jon If it were me I would go out and find your speakers first.That way you will know if you need a beefier amp.You may pick speakers that most new receivers can drive.IMO I see nothing wrong with 2ch reproduction with a good 7.1 receiver .I have found no major difference in my RXV 1400 7.1 receiver played in 2ch and a Adcom GFP 750,and Rotel RC 1070.2ch preamps.

[JonW]

Jon If it were me I would go out and find your speakers first.That way you will know if you need a beefier amp.You may pick speakers that most new receivers can drive.IMO I see nothing wrong with 2ch reproduction with a good 7.1 receiver .I have found no major difference in my RXV 1400 7.1 receiver played in 2ch and a Adcom GFP 750,and Rotel RC 1070.2ch preamps.

Well, I just came back from a business trip. And I had a little time to try out some speakers. Here's what I found:

Paradigm Studio 20's- OK, I guess. Nothing special.
Paradigm Studio 60's- Fuller sound than the 20's. But just dull and not what I'm looking for.
Sonus Farber Domus Grand Pianos- Fine. Can't complain. Clear, but it didn't really grab me.
Linn Katans- VERY nice highs and mids.
Linn Ninkas- SUPER. No real bass. But the mids and high are EXACTLY what I'm looking for.
Linn Ninkas with REL B2 Brittania Subwoofer- AMAZING. This is the sound I am after, Just what I want. Well, the sub was a little boomy at times, but maybe it needed some adjustment. It was a quick add on to the Ninkas.

If I got the Ninkas as main speakers, a pair of Katans for rears, the matching center, and then the REL sub, that's around $$6,500. Or around $4,500 for the Ninkas + sub for just 2 channel music. That's expensive, but probably worth it. I've still got lots of speakers I'd like to try out. But now I know what my upper limit is. No need to spend any more than that.

Those Linns with a good sub... mmmm... that is the magic I'm after.

[theaudiohobby]

Jon If it were me I would go out and find your speakers first.That way you will know if you need a beefier amp.You may pick speakers that most new receivers can drive.IMO I see nothing wrong with 2ch reproduction with a good 7.1 receiver .I have found no major difference in my RXV 1400 7.1 receiver played in 2ch and a Adcom GFP 750,and Rotel RC 1070.2ch preamps.

I have said this in the past and it beers repeating, the preamplifier can be the limiting factor in many setups effectively choking the life of out of the power amplifier, this is probably even moreso for active preamplifers.

[kexodusc]

I didn't say the cabinet plays no role, but the radiating characteristics of speakers are such that the majority of sound is forward, not parallel, or behind. Wider cabinets reduce baffle step loss for sure, but it's easily compensated for if even necessary in "slim-line" speakers. Who coined "slim-line" anyway? Peter Q? Clever..I kind of like it.

Slim-line cabinets are actually known for superior imaging and soundstage and off-axis response at the expense of apparent bass suffered by baffle loss. Off axis response is nice for some people, not important for others I guess. I can accomadate any speakers desire for toe-in so I never really saw the point. I guess it would matter more for home theater, but again, I'm usually close enough to the sweet spot I wouldn't care.

Volume and the woofer's interaction with the cabinet contribute more to sound than the shape. I"m not aware of any company that considers cabinets a necessary evil - they're all critical to the design goals. Some are just built better than others. If you heard an inexpensive, poorly constructed fat-box, you wouldn't like it either.

To be honest, I'm surprised there aren't more fat-boxes out there....Home theater would benefit immensely from both an aesthetic, and practical space saving perspective if manufacturers would offer fat box versions of their speakers.

Four 6" woofers would be ridiculous, I can't think of any speakers like that though. If there are some, it's probably for improved speed, accuracy, efficiency, and lower distortion, but not really bass extension. The problem with 8" speakers is the midrange performance, demand for more expensive (but not better sounding) tweeters, and a tendency for beaming/lobbing.
If you want a truly full-range speaker, you pretty much have to have at least an 8" woofer I prefer well integrated 10" woofers though. You can usually get by with 5.25 or bigger and cover most music info. It's just a trade-off.

[JonW]

As for the Money break-down I would do as the others have said and do home theater later -- get two channel audio done right -- you will fnd that many 2 channel audio companies have little interest in gizmos like home theater.

Dynaudio is one of the best slim line designed speakers currently on the market -- luckily the slim line design is not the ONLY kind of cabinet design out there but it is the most common so you are likely to hear the same KIND of sound from most others of similar shape.

In your budget you would do well to look at tube amplification and higher sensitivity speakers. This is my prefernece in music listening and it may be yours. Worth a shot to find out.

Yeah, 2 channel is my priority. So good idea to get that done right, first.

I've only just started to audition speakers. Only heard the Dynaudio 52 SE and 72 SE so far. I wasn't impressed. Somehow, I was expecting more from such well regarded speakers. They seemd pretty flat to me. Maybe it was the CD I brought- a CD made of tunes I ripped onto my computer. But I don't have much of a reference point. So the shopping will continue.