Amp / Integrated for B&W CDM 1NT's

[stevos2005]

I just got a pair of B&W CDM 1NT's and need advice mating an amp to them. This will be a dedicated stereo system. I'm thinking about the Rotel-RA1070 integrated amplifier. I've heard good things with Rotel and B&W mating, but I've yet to hear Rotel myself. I don't want to break the bank, so the $1200 or less is the budget for a good integrated amp or pre-amp/amp combo. I'll take any advice for any amps. Then I'll go and test.

How do the newer B&W 705's compare to the CDM 1NT's, since I'll probably have to test the different amps on the 705's since most stores don't carry the CDM's.

Thanks!

[dean_martin]

A reviewer wrote that his test pair didn't really open up until he switched from a 125wpc amp to a 300wpc amp. (I think it was Sam Tellig in Stereophile. His review might be online.) You might try a range of amps within the same brand and see if more power makes a difference. If you plan on using a sub, then this may not be much of an issue. IMO, based on a home trial, it's pretty easy to coax sweet, extended high frequencies out of the CDM 1NTs, but it may take considerable power to get their best bass response.

[topspeed]

How do the newer B&W 705's compare to the CDM 1NT's, since I'll probably have to test the different amps on the 705's since most stores don't carry the CDM's.

Take your 1NT's with you if you can't bring the amps home for an audition. They may be 36lbs but at least they're not N802's, right? The reason you'll want to use your 1NT's is because they sound quite different than the 705's. To my ears, the 700 series is voiced closer to the 600's in that they are a fuller, rounder sounding speaker than the preceding CDM's. My dealer concurred and in fact mentioned that one of the problems with the CDM's was that they would cannibalize sales from the Nauts because they sounded too similar. It would make more business sense for B&W to have a greater separation between the lines. Another thing is that the motor system on the 700's was changed in an effort to present an easier load to the amp. The CDM's were reknown/notorious for being amp sensitive and I can certainly attest to that (I have 7NT's and 1NT's). It takes a lot of trial and error with the 1NT's to find the best combination within your system so be ready to do a fair amount of auditions. However, your patience will pay off as the 1NT's are capable of making glorious music when driven correctly.

If you don't mind going used, you could pick up a PS Audio HCA2 and possibly a used passive pre-amp for maybe a few bucks more than your budget. The synergy between the B&W's and PSA is terrific imo. Check Audiogon.com.

Hope this helps and buy what moves you.

[Geoffcin]

I just got a pair of B&W CDM 1NT's and need advice mating an amp to them. This will be a dedicated stereo system. I'm thinking about the Rotel-RA1070 integrated amplifier. I've heard good things with Rotel and B&W mating, but I've yet to hear Rotel myself. I don't want to break the bank, so the $1200 or less is the budget for a good integrated amp or pre-amp/amp combo. I'll take any advice for any amps. Then I'll go and test.

How do the newer B&W 705's compare to the CDM 1NT's, since I'll probably have to test the different amps on the 705's since most stores don't carry the CDM's.

Thanks!

The more the merrier. After hooking up my old PS Audio 200c to my buddies Matrix 3's it was like the earth shook. quite literally! You should look for an amp that can deliver high current.

[stevos2005]

I've decided to get a good stereo power amp, and then get a decent pre-amp later on. I have an old yamaha RX-V990 receiver that has a discrete input with pre-amp outputs and I'll use that as pre-amp for the B&W's.

PS Audio is a bit above my price range. If it's true that the CDM's are more like the nautilus line than the 700's, then I'd like to base my home theater on the CDM's as well. I'd like a similar sound, so I would want a line that also carries multichannel (3 or 5ch)amps. Do the 7NT's have enough bass to be used as full range, or would the 9NT's be more appropriate? I have no way to listen to these, but I do like the general B&W sound.

As far as amp's go, I can most likely audition a Rotel RB-1080 (200wpc with 1000 damping factor) from my local store, and I can also try NAD, Bryston, and B&K. Would any of these go well with the CDM's or do you recommend I look elsewhere?

Any thoughts on the RB-1080 with the B&W's?

Thanks!

[topspeed]

I've decided to get a good stereo power amp, and then get a decent pre-amp later on. I have an old yamaha RX-V990 receiver that has a discrete input with pre-amp outputs and I'll use that as pre-amp for the B&W's.

PS Audio is a bit above my price range. If it's true that the CDM's are more like the nautilus line than the 700's, then I'd like to base my home theater on the CDM's as well. I'd like a similar sound, so I would want a line that also carries multichannel (3 or 5ch)amps. Do the 7NT's have enough bass to be used as full range, or would the 9NT's be more appropriate? I have no way to listen to these, but I do like the general B&W sound.

As far as amp's go, I can most likely audition a Rotel RB-1080 (200wpc with 1000 damping factor) from my local store, and I can also try NAD, Bryston, and B&K. Would any of these go well with the CDM's or do you recommend I look elsewhere?

Any thoughts on the RB-1080 with the B&W's?

Thanks!

The 7NT's have more than enough bass for me and in fact, when listening to 2 channel I'll turn my sub off. Don't be fooled by the 9NT's extra driver, it doesn't add as much low energy as you'd think. The main difference is the FST midrange. I can't directly contribute it to the mid-driver but to my ears the 9's are somewhat more forward sounding while the 7's are more neutral. Obviously, you'll have to listen to both to decide which you prefer.

All of the amps you listed are very capable and from respected companies. I've heard all but the NAD with the 1NT's and found the Rotel to offer the best compromise. I sold a B&K to get the PS Audio so that should tell you something right there. The Bryston was a Mack truck of an amp but lacked a little of the sweetness I prefer, although at least it wasn't as cold and clinical as a Krell. The Rotel isn't is energetic as the Bryston, especially in the bass, but it was warmer and more musical in my system. A lot of it is taste and perception so please make sure you audition on your own. There's a good chance your conclusions could be completely different from mine.

FWIW, I found the PSA to offer truly astounding bass (better than any amp I heard) along with liquid mids and really sweet, extended highs. The upper end reminds me of great ARC tube amps, one of my favorites. It's microdynamics aren't as crystal clear as an Odyssey or Bryston, but it wasn't nearly as smeared as the B&K or Anthem. PSA is coming out with a multi-channel HCA in August which will allow the user to plug in as many channels as they need and each will have it's own dedicated power supply. Pretty trick but it won't be cheap as Paul is guessing aroun $1K per channel. Here's a used HCA2 on audiogon and two just sold for $950 so there's clearly room for negotiation.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1090323400

Other options I'd check into would be Parasound Halo, Conrad-Johnson, and BAT. Used is a great way to buy amps because they don't have moving parts, are extremely durable, and many come with transferrable warranties of impressive duration (i.e. Bryston and Odyssey are 20 years!)

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[stevos2005]

I actually found a really good deal on lightly used 9NT's, so I'm seriously considering them. Unfortunately, I won't be able to audition them, but if they sound anything like the 1NT's or better, I can't pass it up.

As far as amps go, I know local dealers carrie Conrad-Johnson and Parasound. I'm leaning towards the Rotel (from info alone) since I found out that B&W and Rotel are owned by the same parent company, and are generally made to match well.

A musical sounding amp with tight bass would be great. One feature very important for me is crystal clear vocals. Granted, I'm used to hearing Polk RT series speakers with mid-priced Yamaha receivers, and my old RT-500fxi have decent, but not great vocals, but the Polk RT-55 are just down right muddy and boxy. However, I'm guessing at the price range of Rotel amps and B&W CDM speakers, I wouldn't have to worry about muddy sounding vocals.

In the meanwhile, would it be ok to hook up the CDM's to my old Yamaha until I get the amp, or would this be bad for speakers of that quality?

Thanks

[topspeed]

I actually found a really good deal on lightly used 9NT's, so I'm seriously considering them. Unfortunately, I won't be able to audition them, but if they sound anything like the 1NT's or better, I can't pass it up.

Go for it, seriously. They're great speakers.

I'm leaning towards the Rotel (from info alone) since I found out that B&W and Rotel are owned by the same parent company, and are generally made to match well.

They share the same distributor. Nothing more, nothing less. B&W's are not voiced using Rotel amps, contrary to urban myth. That said, there's certainly nothing wrong with a Rotel/B&W system

However, I'm guessing at the price range of Rotel amps and B&W CDM speakers, I wouldn't have to worry about muddy sounding vocals.

You are correct sir! However, price has nothing to do with it as there are plenty of fuzzy, muddy sounding overpriced speakers to be had. It just so happens that the ones you bought aren't. Chances are the vocals, especially female, on the CDM's are going to be revelation over your Polks. Hell, I'm excited FOR you!

In the meanwhile, would it be ok to hook up the CDM's to my old Yamaha until I get the amp, or would this be bad for speakers of that quality?

Of course not. In fact, they will probably sound really good. This will give you an opportunity to see the difference a good amp makes, particularly with these speakers. Prepare to be blown away when you connect that amp to the pre-outs. NOW you'll hear what these speakers are capable of.

Have fun and enjoy the music.

[RGA]

The best thing Rotel makes are their power amps - they are a sweeter sounding amp maker - under-appreciated amongst audiophiles because their price is not as high - but to me they're no worse than the Classes, Brystons and Copland's of the world - only cost way less. They sound different perhaps but not worse.

[stevos2005]

Thanks for the advice. I'm seriously considering the Rotel, but only time will tell. Geez, I'm excited now, since I stopped today at my local home theater store, brought some CD's and listened to B&W 603 S3's connected to a Rotel RA-1062 (only 60wpc with 150 damping) and I was blown away. To me it seemed like the singer was right there. Everything was so clear, particularly orchestral instruements! So CDM 9NT's and a Rotel RB-1080 better sound good! I actually liked the Rotel sound a little better than the much more expensive Lexicon, which is ridiculously out of my price range.

I went back home to the Polks and the Yamaha.... geez... what a difference. I've been missing so much.

Thanks for the advice.

[RGA]

The damping factor is meaningless - Tube amplifiers have very low damping factors and often err mostly sound far better than comparably priced SS devices. Heck some argue to avoid amps with high damping factors because they use a lot of negative feedback. Either way I would just ignore mst of the specs and get a well built good sounding product - Rotel is that.

[stevos2005]

Honestly, I've never did an A/B comparion on two similar amps with different damping factors (i.e Rotel RB-1070 130wpc 400DF with RB-1080 200wpc 1000DF). I don't see how negative feedback is bad, since feedback control systems are widely used to make many applications more accurate. But yes, it's probably true that when you get in the 200DF range, it probably doesn't make much, if any audible difference. My primary reasons for going with an RB-1080 is that it uses higher power which will cleanly drive the B&W's with ease and offer a better bottom end, and that it offers balanced inputs, which will allow for future upgradeability.

Thanks for all your opinions. I do appreciate them all.