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  1. #1
    3LB
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    cunning linguist 3LB's Avatar
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    Where's the OWS threads?

    You mean there's no OWS threads... really?




    Does anyone here think these demonstrations will result in change for the better (depending on your idea of better)?




    Here's an idea (cut-n-pasted from another website):

    Warren Buffet:

    "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law
    that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all
    sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election


    The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only
    3 months &8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That
    was in 1971...before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc.

    Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less
    to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

    In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the
    message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

    Congressional Reform Act of 2011

    1. No Tenure / No Pension.
    A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when
    they are out of office.

    2. Congress (past, present &future) participates in Social Security.
    All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security
    system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system,
    and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay
    will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the
    same health care system as the American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American
    people.

    I especially like that last one. Think of all the jobs it would create if the SEC started investigating Congressman for insider trading (currently, they cannot - elected Congress-persons AND their staff are immune from prosecution by the SEC and may engage in insider trading without any penalty). Nope, no conflict of interest there.
    Repost this on your wall if you love Jesus.

  2. #2
    3LB
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    no takers huh?

    geez, what a buncha boot licking establishment lackies you guys have become
    Repost this on your wall if you love Jesus.

  3. #3
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LB View Post
    You mean there's no OWS threads... really?




    Does anyone here think these demonstrations will result in change for the better (depending on your idea of better)?




    Here's an idea (cut-n-pasted from another website):

    Warren Buffet:

    "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law
    that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all
    sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election


    The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only
    3 months &8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That
    was in 1971...before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc.

    Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less
    to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

    In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the
    message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

    Congressional Reform Act of 2011

    1. No Tenure / No Pension.
    A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when
    they are out of office.

    2. Congress (past, present &future) participates in Social Security.
    All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security
    system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system,
    and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay
    will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the
    same health care system as the American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American
    people.

    I especially like that last one. Think of all the jobs it would create if the SEC started investigating Congressman for insider trading (currently, they cannot - elected Congress-persons AND their staff are immune from prosecution by the SEC and may engage in insider trading without any penalty). Nope, no conflict of interest there.
    There is not a single item said that I do not agree with, and this has been a position I have long held. If congress does not get the benefits that we get(and I am speaking of the average American economically), then they would vote more for our interests than their own. Their isolation health and economically wise makes it convenient to vote like they do, and that isolation needs to become participation so their perspective can change.

    I am afraid it is not going to happen. I think our political leaders have been so sucked in by campaign money, they have completely lost the reason why they are where they are. If Americans do not stop voting against their own self interests, they will continue to see the conditions they see, and worse. Right now congress continues to vote against the American public in the name of fair trade agreements, which have been far from fair to the average working American, and even less popular.
    Sir Terrence

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  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Many of the OWS protesters are pretty naive just like the Tea Partiers. However, unlike Tea Partiers they are less likely to "vote agains their own best interests", as Sir T puts it. This makes them less stupid, IMO

    The finance industry in the US -- and worldwide -- has assumed a life of its own. It ought to be just a vehicle to join (1) those folks who have money they want to save with (2) those who need money to invest in expansion or new enterprise. Instead it has been come a vast machine for speculation and just plain gambling -- mostly with other people's money, i.e. group (1) above. And the financial segment of the US economy has hugely expanded in recent decades, doing little for actually savers or investors but allowing a few high rollers to pocket absurd profits -- while the bubble was expanding and thereafter thanks to bailouts.

    The mortgage bond, so-called "collateralized debt obligation" (CDO), gambit was a deception. Basically crappy mortgages were repackaged in such a way as to make a large portion of them look high grade; this done by exploiting the gulibility/complicity/greed of the rating agencies.

    These CDOs were bound to fail and a some people knew it. Accordingly they contrived to "short", or bet against, them by taking "credit default swaps" (CDS) that would pay off if the CDOs defaulted. The theory of CDSs is that they are insurance, but when in fact the CDS holders don't actually own any of the supposedly "insured" CDOs, then the CDS became pure bets. In some instances mutiple CDSs were issued agains the same CDOs -- thus creating huge additional risk out of thin air for the CDS issuers.

    When interest rates for the subprime mortgages that the comprised to the CDOs started to go up, and the house prices started to go down, the whole arrangement collapsed like the house of cards that it was.

    Following me so far? Anyway, with proper regulation none of this would have happened. But Congress is so beholden to moneyed interests that no really effective new regulations have be adopted or are likely to be. The whole mess can and very likely will happen all over again in a few years.
    Last edited by Feanor; 10-27-2011 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #5
    3LB
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    I appreciate that guys, but I'm looking for some finger pointing and name naming.

    Like how anyone who works for a living, most likely for less than a living wage, could vote against their best interests, particularly for a party that has allowed this financial situation to occur and support corporate take over of our government, simply because it allegedly espouses pro-WASP virtues like family values, prayer in schools, anti-welfare, anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc, etc.
    Repost this on your wall if you love Jesus.

  6. #6
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LB View Post
    I appreciate that guys, but I'm looking for some finger pointing and name naming.

    Like how anyone who works for a living, most likely for less than a living wage, could vote against their best interests, particularly for a party that has allowed this financial situation to occur and support corporate take over of our government, simply because it allegedly espouses pro-WASP virtues like family values, prayer in schools, anti-welfare, anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc, etc.
    So, 3LB, which Party has allowed this situation? Deregulation has been furthered by both US parties, but one in particular since, uhmm, the Reagan administration, (your first clue).

    Why would a person vote agains his/her own best interests? Well because he/she doesnt actually know where his/her best interests actually lie.

    Joe Sixpack knows all about Bible, (albeit second hand from some semi-educated pastor), that the poor are all listless bums, that universal health care is "socialism", homosexuality is a choice, America has never lost a war. He's convinced that global warming is a leftist plot, dinosaurs & man lived together, and that the earth is only 6000 years old. He's familiar with every nuance of American Exceptionalism, (from e.g. Texas textbooks that distort history). But the only thing he knows about macroeconomics is that it too is a leftist plot because Glenn Beck told his so. So how the hell is he supposed to know where his self-interest really lies?

  7. #7
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    A bit of a tangent that has just kinda been bugging me lately. I don't understand why the argument that gays get rights is so tied to whether it is a choice or not. I personally don't see it as a choice, but even if I did I can't say that I would anyhow be able to make sense of taking someone's rights away because I disagree with a choice they make.

    And, I'm not sure the majority of OWS have any sort of coherent political agenda, but I am very glad to at least see them forcing media and politicians to begin addressing economic issues other than the national debt. If they can keep the country focused on these issues instead of getting sidetracked on a bunch of pablum, I consider that alone a success. My fears are that the movement gets co-opted by the traditional powers that be, becomes too obsessed with side issues and marginalizes themselves, or they all becomes so resigned to voting Democrat that they wield no actual political power.

    I have been happy to see what they have been doing so far, but my real question concerns what happens when the inevitable transpires and the tent cities are taken down? Without a permanent street-level presence, does anyone still care?

  8. #8
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    So, 3LB, which Party has allowed this situation? Deregulation has been furthered by both US parties, but one in particular since, uhmm, the Reagan administration, (your first clue).

    Why would a person vote agains his/her own best interests? Well because he/she doesnt actually know where his/her best interests actually lie.

    Joe Sixpack knows all about Bible, (albeit second hand from some semi-educated pastor), that the poor are all listless bums, that universal health care is "socialism", homosexuality is a choice, America has never lost a war. He's convinced that global warming is a leftist plot, dinosaurs & man lived together, and that the earth is only 6000 years old. He's familiar with every nuance of American Exceptionalism, (from e.g. Texas textbooks that distort history). But the only thing he knows about macroeconomics is that it too is a leftist plot because Glenn Beck told his so. So how the hell is he supposed to know where his self-interest really lies?
    They know their self interests, but it is hijacked by the words(and not deeds) "I am a Christian" coming from a politicians mouth. Once they say that, they forget about their self interests, and the hook in the nose is in tight.
    Sir Terrence

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  9. #9
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    Y'all should have a more better opinion of folks...............

    Ad for gun training bars Muslims and Obama voters | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

    Ad for gun training bars Muslims and Obama voters

    15722 comments


    165Thumbs UpThumbs Down24
    jdr0317 Marlborough, United States 5 hours agoReport Abuse
    Well, it's far from PC and harsh.
    BUT, it's his damn business. Who's to tell him what clients he must serve? This should be protected speech, not investigated speech.

    Unless feelings come before first amendment rights, I guess.
    12 Replies .





    366Thumbs UpThumbs Down44
    Michael Atlanta, United States 3 hours agoReport Abuse
    WOW!!!! FREE ADVERTISING.......I bet he gets a lot of new business from this
    15 Replies .





    213Thumbs UpThumbs Down13
    ANSKY Callahan, United States 5 hours agoReport Abuse
    He has the right to refuse anyone just like McDonalds.
    19 Replies .





    45Thumbs UpThumbs Down39
    sam4 hours agoReport Abuse
    Some of the ignorant comments on here are astounding. Those of you claiming that all Muslims are killers or that Islam is a religion of violence not peace, you really need to educate yourselves. Yes, some Muslims have done some horrendous things, but that doesn't mean that ALL Muslims are hateful... More
    11 Replies .





    113Thumbs UpThumbs Down12
    JamesFabout an hour agoReport Abuse
    Freedom of speech. Like it or love it, you have to respect it. And deal with it.
    1 Reply .





    250Thumbs UpThumbs Down81
    ShannonR Charlottesville, United States 5 hours agoReport Abuse
    Good for him..
    5 Replies .





    225Thumbs UpThumbs Down53
    snoopsister Reseda, United States 5 hours agoReport Abuse
    Being white is not illegal, yet!!
    13 Replies .





    179Thumbs UpThumbs Down61
    A CItizen5 hours agoReport Abuse
    In America we use to have the right to choose but that has disappeared. This man has a private business and therefore SHOULD be able to choose who he does business with. I am sure there are others who will instruct those this man chooses not to instruct. He IS entitled to his opinion you know,... More
    14 Replies .





    112Thumbs UpThumbs Down39
    Turkey Tampa, United States 5 hours agoReport Abuse
    this an example of what is happening in our "Free" country . They are taking our choices away ,one at a time. Wake up you college students. you are being hoodwinked and it will be too late by the time you realize it.
    7 Replies .





    121Thumbs UpThumbs Down26
    richie rich5 hours agoReport Abuse
    so he has a right to do it.what is the big deal.why would he want to train muslims.why would anyone.
    11 Replies .





    215Thumbs UpThumbs Down75
    ron Lima, United States 5 hours agoReport Abuse
    I agree with him 100% Mr. Keller should have as much right to decide who isn't fit to take this class just as liquor establishment has the right not to serve drinks to a drunk man.
    13 Replies .





    56Thumbs UpThumbs Down14
    Andreaabout an hour agoReport Abuse
    Isn't it funny how liberals care so much about freedom of speech until someone says something they don't agree with?
    7 Replies .





    137Thumbs UpThumbs Down17
    JR4 hours agoReport Abuse
    Ask the people at Ft. Hood what this guy should do....
    1 Reply .





    79Thumbs UpThumbs Down10
    Eat Dirt Tucson, United States about an hour agoReport Abuse
    Stinkin funny! He has my full support and the next time I visit family in Texas, I may just swing in to buy a gun and shake his hand.
    1 Reply .





    26Thumbs UpThumbs Down2
    Joe Fridayabout an hour agoReport Abuse
    Hmm, looks we finally have a worthy canidate for 2012!
    Reply .





    302Thumbs UpThumbs Down60
    Thomas Ray5 hours agoReport Abuse
    How come the media doesn't get as upset about some of the "death to America" crap coming from some of the mosques here in America?
    32 Replies .





    43Thumbs UpThumbs Down4
    Pcub Phoenix, United States 4 hours agoReport Abuse
    Hahahahahahahahah not so funny you LIBTARDS when it is throw back in your face is it? Well get over yourselves cause this is America and if this is what he chooses to do there is not a #$%$ thing you all can do about it. So, go cry in your Caffe Latte or eat another sprig of wheat grass and FO.... More
    7 Replies .





    326Thumbs UpThumbs Down45
    John Clinton, United States 3 hours agoReport Abuse
    Why would I teach a man to shoot that can't keep his pants held up and wears a ballcap sideways on his head and shades his eyes with his hand?
    25 Replies .





    21Thumbs UpThumbs Down6
    RobertK Chicago, United States 2 hours agoReport Abuse
    I am sure muslims and Obama voters were just lining up to work with this guy before they heard his ad.
    1 Reply .





    522Thumbs UpThumbs Down79
    Victim Midland, United States 6 hours agoReport Abuse
    What bout that sign 99% of business owners have about the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason?
    32 Replies

    There are a lot more enlightened comments.....................

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