Obama gets Nobel Peace Prize

[blackraven]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the President, but wtf? Nominations for the prize were done back in Feb. 2009. He was in office for 1 month. I guess I need to look into the reason he won.

[nightflier]

A spade a spade - I have been using that phrase for years and never thought of it as racist. If it is, then I'll stop using it. But I did a little research and found this:

"It’s based on a mistranslation by the Dutch Renaissance scholar Desiderius Erasmus [ca. 1466 - 1536]. In Greek, skaphis is a shovel or spade, and skaphos is a boat, a skiff. He chose the wrong word, and “to call a spade a spade” came into being. In 1539, John Tavener brought Erasmus’ Latin version into English in his Garden of Wysdome: “Whiche call . . . a mattok nothing els but a mattok, and a spade a spade.” A mattock, by the way, is a digging tool with a flat blade set at right angles to the handle. So Tavener was advancing the meaning of the proverb to show that even allied objects should be carefully distinguished. After that, the saying was off and running, and it was used by dozens of writers, eventually dooming it to cliché status.

Spade, the offensive racist term referring to a black person, probably derived from the color of the ace of spades in a deck of cards, and it didn’t attain this meaning until 1928. So only someone who believes that Nostradamus was on top of his game would believe that a phrase in use for almost 2,000 years miraculously foretold an obnoxious slang term of the early 20th century."

In any case, I'm sorry if it was interpreted as racist. It certainly wasn't meant as such and the fact that I was referring to Obama was a very unfortunate coincidence. I'm pretty sure I've used it elsewhere on this forum a number of times in my other discussions and never thought of it as racist. Anyhow, considering I am of Latin American descent and not exactly of the lightest persuasion, I am amazed that I put myself in that position. If I offended anyone else, know that I also offended myself in the process and I am ashamed of having done so. I'll certainly not use the phrase anymore.

__________________________

Now MarkW, there is nothing revisionist about what I pointed out regarding those presidents. Wilson did say about Birth of a Nation that it was "like writing history with lightning. And [his] only regret is that it is all so terribly true" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation). Likewise, the worst cimes against the people of the Philippines occured during Roosevelt's presidency. There are many websites that describe the genocide on the island of Samar, the deplorable conditions in American concentration camps, the "coonhunts", and the horrid tortures used on the Philippinos - but you can do your own research on Teddy's human rights record.

So while they may be considered great presidents by some contemporaries, they aren't exactly the kinds of role models we should hold up as examples of peace workers with what we know of them today. That you should be blind to this history, and willfully wishing to remain so, is more troubling still.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm not trying to take anything away from the President, but wtf? Nominations for the prize were done back in Feb. 2009. He was in office for 1 month. I guess I need to look into the reason he won.

Here is the reason straight from the five horses mouths.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_316098.html

[jvc]

Oh boy, either you have rocks in your head, or just air. Sorry, but the dollar was worthless before he took office. The previous President printed more worthless money by far than the current one. The bailout was a continuation of the previous President's actions. If you call keeping our banking system from failing socialism, then you don't know what socialism is. If you call saving the automobile industry socialist, then you obviously support having twice as many people out of work as we have now. He cannot turn poor policies dated back to the Reagan years (trickle down economics) in nine months, and anyone expecting him to do so is....well could I use the words stupid?



Wow, Condo? She had 8 years to do something, and she was as miserable a failure as her boss. During her tenure, our relationship and reputation with the world turn to ****. The students at Stanford where my son used to go have sure given her a earful on what she has done. Andrew Young? Jimmy Carter had to ask him to resign after he secretly met with leaders of the PLO - what was considered a terrorist group. I am sure the Jews in Israel love him for saying they were..how do I want to say this.... stubborn and intransigent. This is something you say in private, not on meet the press on Sunday morning. The most notable thing he has done is played a leading role in advancing a settlement in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo. Mugabe a known racist and hater of white people, killed thousands of gays, took land from white landowners without paying them for it, and has interfered with national democratic elections from day one. Oooooooo...great company Mr. Young kept.


You sure can tell alot about a person based on who they support.


If you don't see...no..if you cannot see that this world thinks differently about America because of the way this President has conducted himself on the world stage, that is your business. But obviously those five committee members see things quite differently, and this is their award and they can chose to give it to whomever they want, and for whatever reason they want. You don't have a say, except your opinion. He accepted the award, so the hate is irrelevant and a waste of time.

A democrat knocking down another democrat. This is why democrats where in the minority for so long. Nine months, and he is supposed to fix every problem in the world. Good grief......

If you say so!
You're right. You can tell a lot about a person by who he supports!

The man's unawareness is plain pitiful, to be in the office he's in...........

Barack Obama , through his spokesman, claimed that he was unaware of the tax day tea parties. Granted, the main stream media has done a good job in suppressing any sort of coverage ahead of time (and the little coverage they did provide was derisive at best)… but how out of touch is the Community Organizer in Chief, really?
This much.
- He was unaware that he was attending a church (for 20 years) with a racist pastor who hates America .
- He was unaware that he was family friends with, and started his political career in the living room of, a domestic terrorist.
- He was unaware that he had invested in two speculative companies backed by some of his top donors right after taking office in 2005.
- He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the US illegally.
- He was unaware that his own brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya .
- He was unaware of the AIG bonuses that he and his administration approved and signed into a bill.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Commerce was under investigation in a bribery scandal.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of the Treasury was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be the U.S. Trade Representative was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the woman he nominated to be his Chief Performance Officer was a tax cheat..
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be #2 at the Environmental Protection Agency was under investigation for mismanaging $25 million in EPA grants.
.
For the love of God, there are people in comas that are more aware of world affairs than this smooth talking, xxxxxxx.

And an attempt to add a bit of humor to the truth.......

Let me get this straight.
Obama's health care plan will be . . .
. . . written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it,
. . . passed by a Congress that hasn't read it,
. . . signed by a president who smokes,
. . . funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,
. . . overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
. . . financed by a country that is nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?

[jvc]

I'll bet Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson are turning over in their graves. They actually had to earn this prize, not just give good speeches and head a cult of personality.

Put Harry Truman in there with them, as far as rolling over in the grave...............

Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made as many important decisions regarding our nation's history as any of the other 42 Presidents. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House.

The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence Missouri . His wife had inherited
The house from her mother and other than their years in the
White House, they lived their entire lives there.

When he retired from office in 1952, his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them, granted him an 'allowance' and, later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year..

After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouri by themselves. There were no Secret Service following them.

When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, "You don't want me. You want the office of the President, and that doesn't belong to me. It belongs to the American people and it's not for sale."

Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, "I don't consider that I have done anything which should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise."

As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food.

Modern politicians have found a new level of success in cashing in on the Presidency, resulting in untold wealth. Today, many in Congress also have found a way to become quite wealthy while enjoying the fruits of their offices. Political offices are now for sale. (sic. Illinois)

Good old Harry Truman was correct when he observed, "My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!

I say dig him up and clone him!!

[thekid]

I think it is a good thing whenever someone from this country (REGARDLESS OF THEIR PARTY AFFILIATION wins a Nobel Prize of any type for the same reason we should be proud when an American wins any coveted international award.

Unfortunately the timing of this award will probably create problems for Obama on the domestic level. We are already seeing some of that from those who have managed to take the winning of a Peace prize and turn it in to a polarizing issue. How tragic that people who regularly call into a certain talk radio host identifying themselves and their host as "Great Americans" were so upset when an American won this award. We will never achieve our full potential in this country until we can stop this myopic mudslinging and truly identify ourselves as Americans first and then whatever polictical, relegious, ethnic or social group second-third etc....

Call me a dreamer with a large pessimistic streak.......

[markw]

A spade a spade - I have been using that phrase for years and never thought of it as racist. If it is, then I'll stop using it. But I did a little research and found this

To say you weren't aware of it'sse in the current mixed society tells me at least one of two things about you:
1) You have no social contact with blacks on an extended basis
...or
2) You lie with the ease of a consumate liberal when you say you never knew it could be considered racist.

[Worf101]

Between the lover's and the haters..... this thread either needs to be moved to the "steel cage" or locked. Folks that hate Pres. Obama and those that willing to give him a chance will never see eye to eye, ever... until there's some violent, stupid incident (which I KNOW is coming) and then it'll just recede for a while.

Just a couple of facts while we're all spittin' on one another.

1. He didn't ask for the award.

2. He didn't campaign for the award.

3. He donated all the money to charities.

4. Admitted that others were equally or MORE deserving.

What the hell more do you want besides him out of office or dead which I know in my heart of hearts are the only things that will satisfy some of you... I read the responses on AOL to every single article about him. These folks are organised by the Republicans or worse to savage the man daily even in threads that have nothing to do about him. Most can barely spell and their logic??? I don't decry folks that disagree with Pres. Obama and his policy's, hell I disagree with some of them, but as was mentioned last week, no one showed up at Bush speeches visibly armed with weapons. That's the major difference between Bush and Obama haters, the latter would happily commit violence to achieve their goal of his downfall, the former did not, Some folks think their 2nd amendment rights include the right to threaten or shoot anyone they disagree with, even a sitting, democratically elected President. Just my 2 cents as a registered Independent who's served his country in peace and war, in garrison and field.

Da Worfster

[thekid]

Worf

Thank you for your comments and Thank You for your service.

[blackraven]

Here is the reason straight from the five horses mouths.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_316098.html

Thanks for clearing that up. I had not read why he won it and thought that he won it on his merits as president.

[3LB]

1. He didn't ask for the award.

2. He didn't campaign for the award.

3. He donated all the money to charities.

4. Admitted that others were equally or MORE deserving.

Points taken. I'm not going to pretend I didn't see this coming, but this thread actually came unhinged when it was suggested that the people who were having a problem with this award, or didn't agree with Obama's policies, were probably racists.

No sitting president has ever had 100% support. I think the highest ever was Reagan back in his first term. Americans will always question its leadership...I believe its our obligation to do so. I said on page one of this thread I hope the award pans out and I hope I have to eat crow about it. With regards to Obama's policies, only time will tell as its still way too early to see if the man will have the impact both supporters and opponents say he will have.

until there's some violent, stupid incident (which I KNOW is coming) What the hell more do you want besides him out of office or dead which I know in my heart of hearts are the only things that will satisfy some of you...

I sincerely hope you are wrong on both accounts.

[3LB]

So they don't care that world opinion has changed when it comes to how America is perceived globally. It is all about how they feel.

I guess that is all relative. The people who have vowed to kill us aren't praising this award or his foreign policies.

Nobody dogmatically supported Bush or Clinton. I see no reason to start doing it now.

[Worf101]

Points taken. I'm not going to pretend I didn't see this coming, but this thread actually came unhinged when it was suggested that the people who were having a problem with this award, or didn't agree with Obama's policies, were probably racists.

No sitting president has ever had 100% support. I think the highest ever was Reagan back in his first term. Americans will always question its leadership...I believe its our obligation to do so. I said on page one of this thread I hope the award pans out and I hope I have to eat crow about it. With regards to Obama's policies, only time will tell as its still way too early to see if the man will have the impact both supporters and opponents say he will have.

I sincerely hope you are wrong on both accounts.

I sincerely hope so as well. At the height of the anti-Bush years SOME people would say something about assasination and I always caught them up short. There've been many political killings in the country in my lifetime, neither the country nor the world was ever better off for it. The bright shining dream of the forefathers was that under this system, this democratic system we could resolve our passionate differences without resorting to the sword or the gun. The civil war was a close run thing, the 60's were another near moment but by an large, they got it right. Sure the Constitution required some tweeking but the got more right than they got wrong. Just understand, love it or hate it, THIS IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE OBAMA COULD'VE GOTTEN ON THE BALLOT MUCH LESS ELECTED. I think on what I've endured in my lifetime and what the nation's endured and realise what wonder America is.

I think we'll survive the Obama administration I just hope we do it as bloodlessly as possible.

Da Worfster

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If you say so!
You're right. You can tell a lot about a person by who he supports!

The man's unawareness is plain pitiful, to be in the office he's in...........

Barack Obama , through his spokesman, claimed that he was unaware of the tax day tea parties. Granted, the main stream media has done a good job in suppressing any sort of coverage ahead of time (and the little coverage they did provide was derisive at best)… but how out of touch is the Community Organizer in Chief, really?
This much.
- He was unaware that he was attending a church (for 20 years) with a racist pastor who hates America .
- He was unaware that he was family friends with, and started his political career in the living room of, a domestic terrorist.
- He was unaware that he had invested in two speculative companies backed by some of his top donors right after taking office in 2005.
- He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the US illegally.
- He was unaware that his own brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya .
- He was unaware of the AIG bonuses that he and his administration approved and signed into a bill.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Commerce was under investigation in a bribery scandal.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of the Treasury was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be the U.S. Trade Representative was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the woman he nominated to be his Chief Performance Officer was a tax cheat..
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be #2 at the Environmental Protection Agency was under investigation for mismanaging $25 million in EPA grants.
.
For the love of God, there are people in comas that are more aware of world affairs than this smooth talking, xxxxxxx.

And an attempt to add a bit of humor to the truth.......

Let me get this straight.
Obama's health care plan will be . . .
. . . written by a committee whose head says he doesn't understand it,
. . . passed by a Congress that hasn't read it,
. . . signed by a president who smokes,
. . . funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,
. . . overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
. . . financed by a country that is nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?

This is a pile of bull**** and you know it. I don't know half of what my friends and family are doing because I have a life of my own. More than half of the things you mention he was unaware of is not his job to aware of. The vetting process of his cabinet is not done by him personally, it is done by others.

You are a hater, you admitted it, so let's move on Just Vacant of Common sense

[jvc]

This is a pile of bull**** and you know it. I don't know half of what my friends and family are doing because I have a life of my own. More than half of the things you mention he was unaware of is not his job to aware of. The vetting process of his cabinet is not done by him personally, it is done by others.

You are a hater, you admitted it, so let's move on Just Vacant of Common sense

So, you're telling me he shouldn't know this info, which is criminal actions, by most of those people he nominated to high positions in our government?
Who's the one vacant of common sense? LOL!
Some people.............

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So, you're telling me he shouldn't know this info, which is criminal actions, by most of those people he nominated to high positions in our government?
Who's the one vacant of common sense? LOL!
Some people.............

Do you know everything your family and friends are doing? He nominated them, and it up to those who vet the people nominated to find out that information not the President. If they don't do their job well, that cannot be blamed on the President. Since you obviously don't know the process, you are just like you moniker states Just Vacant of Common sense.

[Ajani]

It's a shame we didn't all watch the Rachel Maddows Show Last Night... She addressed why Obama won the award and most importantly, showed that he is only 1 of MANY award winners who were given awards more to encourage their initiatives than because they had earned it...

The committee can give the award either to recognize great achievements or to encourage a person's work... So Obama is not the first and won't be the last to win the award as encouragement to continue what the committee regards as important peace work...

Also, I would think that all Americans should be proud that the rest of the world is actually showing confidence and respect for an American President... It's quite an improvement from the complete contempt that the rest of the world had for Bush and by extension the American people... Why some Americans want the rest of the world to hate their own President and the American people is beyond me.... Just celebrate the award and hope it truly encourages Obama to earn it....

[jvc]

Do you know everything your family and friends are doing? He nominated them, and it up to those who vet the people nominated to find out that information not the President. If they don't do their job well, that cannot be blamed on the President. Since you obviously don't know the process, you are just like you moniker states Just Vacant of Common sense.

No, I don't know everything they're doing. But, if I was President, and I was going to nominate them for a high position in the government, you'd better believe I'd find out what they were doing, before I nominated them! No need to get a bad rep, over such stupid moves as that, like he's getting.

Like I said before, the polls are showing that the American people are finding out he's not what they thought, and his support by us is going down. The national news is confirming that, almost on a daily basis. When he got in office, I told people that I hope he proved me wrong, and did a good job. I'd like to end up liking him, but I've seen nothing to make me think it's going that way.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

No, I don't know everything they're doing. But, if I was President, and I was going to nominate them for a high position in the government, you'd better believe I'd find out what they were doing, before I nominated them! No need to get a bad rep, over such stupid moves as that, like he's getting.

But if I was....right. Everyone would have done something different in hindsight. What matters is what you would have done in that moment, with this process in place. There is no way anyone can be perfect in what they do, but we can always rely on the but if I wases of the world to tell us after it is already done.

Well, you are not the President, and you have no idea what is on his plate. His freakin plate is full, that is why there are people that do the vetting for him. He relies on the information given him by them, and if they fail, yes it is an embarrassment, but he cannot be blamed for it. You are an end of game quarterback who has not even the slightest inkling of what a President does. Anyone can do what you just did, but not everyone can be a President. Nobody needs a lame end of game quarterback who in hindsight makes a judgement. It is just plain disingenuous, and at best silly and foolish.

Like I said before, the polls are showing that the American people are finding out he's not what they thought, and his support by us is going down.

Like you where before you are inaccurate. Please do not try and impose your beliefs on everyone. Just because you think this way, does not mean anyone else does. When pollsters ask further question about his falling support, it has nothing to do with him, it has more to do with his personal ability to effect change within the system. In others words, he may want to change the system, but does the system want to be changed. Folks do not believe he can change the system by himself, and therefore based on what the public has seen, they don't believe he can.

Poll numbers peak and ebb daily. A poor number today, can be a much better number tomorrow. That is how it works, so don't take your personal dissatisfaction with him as a belief that everyone dislikes him like you do. That is arrogant and self centered (Ioopps I may have hit the nail on the head). Any President that has tried to change a corrupt system has faced opposition. Some folks like you just don't like change as much as they like to wallow in the dysfunction they already are in. People are unhappy right now at our current financial and employment mess, a mess inherited from the policies and tenure of Bush. When they are unhappy, they take it out on the current administration, even if they are not responsible for it. This is just the way it is, so tuck your hate back in your pocket, and stop trying to think for all of us.

http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time....-poll-numbers/

The national news is confirming that, almost on a daily basis. When he got in office, I told people that I hope he proved me wrong, and did a good job. I'd like to end up liking him, but I've seen nothing to make me think it's going that way.

The national news is a very poor gage for anything. They like bad news because it sells papers and creates blog hits. Only the gullible take the news as word, people much like you. Who cares what you told people, it is easy to be a tool of negativity.

You made your point, I made mine, so let's move on.

[jvc]

His freakin plate is full, that is why there are people that do the vetting for him. He relies on the information given him by them, and if they fail, yes it is an embarrassment, but he cannot be blamed for it.

I'd just about bet money that you didn't and still don't feel that way about Bush?
Everyone blamed him for starting the Iraq war, on bad info about weapons of mass destruction! Sound familiar? Hell, even in your last post, you're still blaming Bush for everything! Practice what you preach! I still think he was given correct info about the WMDs. The mistake was we gave Iraq ten months notice that we were coming. They had plenty of time to get rid of them. They probably gave them to Syria, or other "friend", to hide for them.

Now, everyone wants all the troops to come home, before we have caught or killed Ben Laden! What are people thinking?! Ben Laden WILL do another 9/11 on us, and I hope he gets the ones that wanted to forgive him and move on! I understand that people don't want their loved ones to get hurt, in the war. I guess they want other people's loved ones to get killed in another 9/11, because we left the terrorists alone?

People are unhappy right now at our current financial and employment mess, a mess inherited from the policies and tenure of Bush. When they are unhappy, they take it out on the current administration, even if they are not responsible for it. This is just the way it is, so tuck your hate back in your pocket, and stop trying to think for all of us.

Again, attacking Bush! So, what do you call what you're doing if not trying to think for all of us? You don't agree, only because it's what you think, as opposed to what I think. Afterall, there's no way you could be wrong, because that's how you feel! If someone else feels differently, they are automatically wrong, and have no common sense!

[thekid]

You're a stupid head
No-You're a stupid head
Are not
Are so

21st Century Political discourse..........

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'd just about bet money that you didn't and still don't feel that way about Bush?

I was indifferent about Bush day one, and indifferent about him the last day. Now his actions are a different story.

Everyone blamed him for starting the Iraq war, on bad info about weapons of mass destruction! Sound familiar? Hell, even in your last post, you're still blaming Bush for everything! Practice what you preach! I still think he was given correct info about the WMDs. The mistake was we gave Iraq ten months notice that we were coming. They had plenty of time to get rid of them. They probably gave them to Syria, or other "friend", to hide for them.

Don't every tell anyone your are a democrat, because that would be a lie. You are a republician spitting out republican talking points. Now that this is exposed....

In case your selective mind doesn't get it, Bush DID start the Iraq war. That is a fact. Secondly, the UN inspectors found no WMD in Iraq, and found no evidence of WMD in Iraq. It was all a bluff that Hussein used to keep everyone at bay. There is no evidence to support any of your conspiracy claims, they have already been debunked. The information he was given was altered to support his going in, and the commission that investigated the run up to the war has stated that. They "probably is a word of assumption"...not fact. All your talking points here have already been debunked, so let your little conspiracy theories go.

Now, everyone wants all the troops to come home, before we have caught or killed Ben Laden! What are people thinking?! Ben Laden WILL do another 9/11 on us, and I hope he gets the ones that wanted to forgive him and move on! I understand that people don't want their loved ones to get hurt, in the war. I guess they want other people's loved ones to get killed in another 9/11, because we left the terrorists alone?

They want the troops to come home because they are not there to find Ben Laden. Ben Laden is not in Iraq, there are no WMD in Iraq, so we have no business there. The Bush administration should have waited until the UN finished their inspection. That way we would not have found ourselves wasting precious resources for nothing. If you read Newsweek, you would have found that the Taliban does not want Al Qaeda (who we should be fighting) in their country because they have been a stone around their neck since 9/11. The Taliban is not our enemy, Al Qaeda is. Even our own Generals have said there are less than 100 of them in Afghanistan because basically they have been chased out of there, killed, or gone into Pakistan. You are thinking with you emotions and personal uneducated opinion, not with good common sense, facts, and logic.

Again, attacking Bush! So, what do you call what you're doing if not trying to think for all of us? You don't agree, only because it's what you think, as opposed to what I think. Afterall, there's no way you could be wrong, because that's how you feel! If someone else feels differently, they are automatically wrong, and have no common sense!

You are twisting and spinning like a cyclone or tornado. This is MY opinion, not a thought implant. It is based on what I have read, researched and experienced. Please do not attempt to twist my thoughts into a thought implant on everyone like you have done.

This is not an attack, it is a fact support by a mountain of evidence. It is a fact that Bush's policies that relaxed rules and regulations on the banks help tremendously in creating this problem. Let us add the tax breaks for the rich that blew a whole in a budget surplus he inherited. These tax cuts were followed by a spending frenzy that dug a hole deeper in our federal debt. His indifference towards the federal budgets debt is well documented by Paul O'Neil, his first treasury secretary. These are not the only reason this happened. Our personal debt, and our belief that we could spend more than we earned was another big contribution. Remember Bush's words after 9/11. "Everyone go out and shop", the words that rang across this country. An encouragement to increase your personal debt to keep the economic machine moving in a time of crises. While Clinton had a part in this as well, Clinton left him in better condition than he left Obama. These are facts that are well documented. Obama walked into this mess, he did not create it. That is another indisputable fact

The blame on this mess can be spread fairly far, but remember what I have stated, the person at the top takes the blame of what happens during their tenure, right or not. When Obama came on the scene, things were already bad and getting worse. The inertia of that bad kept rolling through Obama taking office, hence why you blame him for everything. Understandable, but not real or factual.

[jvc]

Don't every tell anyone your are a democrat, because that would be a lie.

I said I am a registered democrat, and I am. But I've voted democrat only twice. We, my wife and I, both registered as democrats, so we could help weed out the worst ones, in the democratic primary. We do vote republican most of the time, because they just plain make more sense.

I know very well that Bush started the war! I was saying why everybody blamed him for doing it. But, you had just said that Obama couldn't be blamed for doing something based on bad info, but you blame Bush for that exact reason, since you think he got bad info! So, Bush doesn't deserve the same consideration as OsamaBama? Like I said, in ten months, Hussein had plenty of time to remove the weapons, and make it look like he never had them. Only a fool would think they never had them. If he had nothing to hide, why was he cowered down in a hole in the ground?

Ben Laden is not in Iraq,

How do you know that? Since you know so much, why don't you tell the military where he is, so they can get him, and finish all this up? I didn't say Ben Laden was in Iraq. He's probably in Pakistan.

This is not an attack, it is a fact support by a mountain of evidence.

What evidence do you have? Hopefully not from the national news or newspapers, because you said:

The national news is a very poor gage for anything. They like bad news because it sells papers and creates blog hits. Only the gullible take the news as word, people much like you. Who cares what you told people, it is easy to be a tool of negativity.

You're too much..............

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I said I am a registered democrat, and I am. But I've voted democrat only twice. We, my wife and I, both registered as democrats, so we could help weed out the worst ones, in the democratic primary. We do vote republican most of the time, because they just plain make more sense.

JVC, cut the lying man...you are a republican spewing republican talking points. Give me a break, everyone is not as stupid as you think they are. Yeah, republicans make so much more sense that they co-sign on a unnecessary war that costs us billions perhaps trillions, but yet healthcare for all Americans is too expensive. It is better to go to war with somebody else, rather than taking care of your own. That makes perfect sense. They cut taxes and increase spending driving up the national debt, then claim somebody else's policies are not fiscally responsible. That makes perfect sense.

I know very well that Bush started the war! I was saying why everybody blamed him for doing it. But, you had just said that Obama couldn't be blamed for doing something based on bad info, but you blame Bush for that exact reason, since you think he got bad info! So, Bush doesn't deserve the same consideration as OsamaBama?

OsamaBama, a name straight from the racists of North Carolina. It didn't take long at all for you to reveal who you truly are. Bush's decision has cost over four thousand American deaths and added trillions to our national debt. President Obama decision cost America what? Let's not be stupid here....

Like I said, in ten months, Hussein had plenty of time to remove the weapons, and make it look like he never had them.

Bull$hit. They had satellites over Iraq for a year before we went to war. If there was any indication of that kind of activity, they would have known about it. There is no evidence of this PERIOD.

Only a fool would think they never had them. If he had nothing to hide, why was he cowered down in a hole in the ground?

Wow, you are really quite stupid. He was in a hole to avoid capture fool! That does not mean he had WMD. There was no proof he had them. We checked, the UN checked, they found NOTHING, we found absolutely NOTHING.

How do you know that? Since you know so much, why don't you tell the military where he is, so they can get him, and finish all this up? I didn't say Ben Laden was in Iraq. He's probably in Pakistan.

This is a weak stupid response, something you would hear from a child. Give me a break...

What evidence do you have? Hopefully not from the national news or newspapers, because you said:

You're too much..............

Definitely too much for you. All one has to do is read the blogs of the leading economists in this country and abroad who have done careful and thorough analysis on this situation. Elizabeth Warren is one, Paul Krugman is another. There are ton's more information out there on this aside from the news or newspapers.

I am going to stop right here. I am not debating a knowledgeable person, just a person full of conspiracy theories, foolishness, and false assumptions. Not to mention the typical southern racist trying to pass himself off as something else. I am a registered democrat that votes republican..give me a frocking break. Go back to your tea party bither movement where you are probably more comfortable. JackedVocalCon is all you really are.

[jvc]

You're an Idiot, plain and simple! You call someone a liar, and you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't seem to have any idea of what goes on outside your private little world, outside your head.
I'm finished too. I'm tired of your BS...............
Have a good life with Obama. But we don't want to hear any crying when things turn sour for you.