Just wondering....

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Originally Posted by markw

I don't think he's under any legal obligtion to follow the orders of a 911 operator. As for turning the table, I don't think the kid had any legal right to start a physical altercation, much less pin and pummel anyone. If such was the case, it's not Z's fault that he had to resort to the gun, which he ws legally allowed to carry, to protect himself.

Betcha of the kid knew he had a gun he wouldn't have started in throwing punches. That's the risk people take when CCW permits are out there. They may start in with the wrong guy, like this kid did.

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Well as neighborhood watch George should have not been carrying and should have stayed in the car. George was stalking Trayvon and that would have put me on guard. The verdict is in and I am pissed.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Well as neighborhood watch George should have not been carrying and should have stayed in the car. George was stalking Trayvon and that would have put me on guard. The verdict is in and I am pissed.

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The Zimmerman verdict is just and as I predicted. The jury correctly concluded that it was not proven that GZ did not act in justified self-defence.

I personally served as a juror in a case, (sexual assault), where the accused was probably guilty, but the the requirement here in Canada as in the USA is "guilty beyond reasonable doubt", and there was reasonable doubt.

I say again with emphasis that the big contributors to this tragedy were (1) George Zimmerman is an a$$hole -- but that isn't a crime: police-wannabe-ism & profiling are bad things but don't constitute 2nd degree murder; (2) legal permits that allowed GZ to carry a concealed weapon; (3) stand-your-ground laws, which GZ was aware of and that emboldened him to approach Martin armed as he was.

I hear that Martin's family could launch a civil suit for "wrongful death": sounds like they have good case.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Well as neighborhood watch George should have not been carrying and should have stayed in the car. George was stalking Trayvon and that would have put me on guard. The verdict is in and I am pissed.

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I'm sure you'll get over it. Remember, following someone is not a crime and Z had a legal right to carry. Now, if Martin had used his words instead of his fists to express is displeasure, this whole thing could have been avoided. Simple as that.

As for the MSM* lynching Z all along, my initial point in tis thread, this link pretty much sums it up. So how does it feel to have been played like a violin? Like it or not, he was no angel, and I'm sure Obama would be proud to call him his son.

* Main Stream Media for those who are unaware.

So Mark, if there were no eyewitnesses, and only a one sided story where the defendant was not even questioned, who can prove that TM threw the first punch OR got on top of GZ and pummeled him with intent to kill him? One witness says the big guy was on top while another says the opposite.

The fact that GZ "Stalked" TM gave the kid enough to worry that he may be in danger and it appears that he tried to protect himself.

Also interesting how GZ shot TM in the heart and not any other spot on the body, that would not have been a "Kill" shot.

Now, just about anyone with a brain knew how this was going to play out, without ever watching TV or reading the press. I knew GZ would walk but did not want him to. Again, GZ should have just taken his due beating and pressed proper charges, he should not have been able to kill the kid and walk away.

I also believe that the whole reason that the media and govt supporters sensationalized this case is because they want to continue keeping the racial lines divided and tension always available for good stories. The Gov also loved how the media blew this all out because it took the focus off of Snowden, Syria, and other issues that hurt americans more than just another dead idiot punk.

On the plus side, properly licensed gun owners with permits have less to worry about if the same situation comes up. Shoot to kill, then never take the stand and with absolutely no credible witnesses, there is nothing that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Check out this link. It contains a picture of Martin the day the altercation took place, and the one when he was 12 years old, the one MSM plastered all over the place to crucify Z. I wonder if Obama would still say it looks like the son he never had, particularly now being aware of Martins record

Now, look at a picture of Zimmernman. Zimmernman may be crazy but I doubt he's that stupid.

Z was 5'8 and in not-too good shape. Martin was 6'3 and in good shape and was proud of his fighting skills. Do you really think Z would initiate a physical altercation, even with a gun and, from is classes, knowing the legal implications?

Call it what you want. You want to look and act like a thug, be prepared to be looked upon with a jaundiced eye. I'd be suspicious of someone like that slinking around my neighborhood, too. I'll betcha ther's some lady in Milburn, NJ that would ave loved to have someone like Z patrolling her neighborhood a few weeks ago.

I'd venture a guess that Martin took offense at being watched, which was Zs duty, and viciously attacked Z for that. As for that "taking his due beating, what do you consider "due"? If Martin just decked him to get him off his arse and went away, I'd agree with you but when, from the eyewitness account, he was straddling Z and doing a "ground and pound" with no signs of letting up, he really didn't leave Z too much choice. Wether Martin would have done this knowing Z was legally carrying, dunno, but I kinda doubt it. He seemed to have no remorse using that size/fitness advantage he had over Zl.

Apparantly, in spite if the prosecution lying through their teeth and twisting the truth every which way they could think of, six jurors from that area saw it that way also.

Like I said earlier, it's too bad he didn't "use is words" as they say in schools nowadays.

I do agree with your third paragraph, though. The media loves playing us and Washington certainly uses te diversions to their advantages. Whatever happened to all the Obama scandels?

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Originally Posted by markw

Check out this link. It contains a picture of Martin the day the altercation took place, and the one when he was 12 years old, the one MSM plastered all over the place to crucify Z. I wonder if Obama would still say it looks like the son he never had, particularly now being aware of Martins record

Now, look at a picture of Zimmernman. Zimmernman may be crazy but I doubt he's that stupid.

Z was 5'8 and in not-too good shape. Martin was 6'3 and in good shape and was proud of his fighting skills. Do you really think Z would initiate a physical altercation, even with a gun and, from is classes, knowing the legal implications?

Call it what you want. You want to look and act like a thug, be prepared to be looked upon with a jaundiced eye. I'd be suspicious of someone like that slinking around my neighborhood, too. I'll betcha ther's some lady in Milburn, NJ that would ave loved to have someone like Z patrolling her neighborhood a few weeks ago.

I'd venture a guess that Martin took offense at being watched, which was Zs duty, and viciously attacked Z for that. As for that "taking his due beating, what do you consider "due"? If Martin just decked him to get him off his arse and went away, I'd agree with you but when, from the eyewitness account, he was straddling Z and doing a "ground and pound" with no signs of letting up, he really didn't leave Z too much choice. Wether Martin would have done this knowing Z was legally carrying, dunno, but I kinda doubt it. He seemed to have no remorse using that size/fitness advantage he had over Zl.

Apparantly, in spite if the prosecution lying through their teeth and twisting the truth every which way they could think of, six jurors from that area saw it that way also.
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I`m afraid the understandable sensitivity of black Americans is central to the arrest & trial saga. For better or worse I think Zimmerman`s attorney was right who said that if Martin had be white (or Zimmerman black), Zimmerman would not have been arrested.

No need to whitewash Zimmerman, he was a jerk. He was not doing his duty when he pursued Martin, having been told not to do it by the 911 operator. However being a jerk doesn`t make him a murder and he was entitled to defend himself against a potentially lethal attack -- there is not proof that this was not the case and the jury had the clarity to recognize this.

We cannot allow that emotion overrule the sound principle of law, innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

GZ will probably get nailed in the Civil case.

It boggles my mind how someone accused of murder with almost no credible witnesses is not forced to take the stand. I would think things may have turned out different if the jury actually heard GZ stumble over all the hearsay.

To add a bit of fuel to the fire, this youtube video sheds a bit more light into some of the heretofore dark crevices of this case. It gets a bit off subject towards the end but the analysis of the major players, the confrontation, and the laws involved is pretty telling.

I guarantee some here won't like to hear it, but hey, that's life.

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Originally Posted by markw

Z was 5'8 and in not-too good shape. Martin was 6'3 and in good shape and was proud of his fighting skills.

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Let us check our facts about Trayvon's height. During the trial they compared height several times and Trayvon was always listed as 5 feet 11 inches.

This thread is about the trial and not for bashing President Obama. Stay on topic.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Let us check our facts about Trayvon's height. During the trial they compared height several times and Trayvon was always listed as 5 feet 11 inches.

This thread is about the trial and not for bashing President Obama. Stay on topic.

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Correct. That was addressed in that youtube video I just posted. But, he was still considerably taller and in better conditio than Z. Anything else to add?

I really don't expect any minds to be changed. After all, the media did it's work on poisioning the weak-minded of this nation already.

Bread and circuses... bread and circuses...

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

GZ will probably get nailed in the Civil case.

It boggles my mind how someone accused of murder with almost no credible witnesses is not forced to take the stand. I would think things may have turned out different if the jury actually heard GZ stumble over all the hearsay.

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Now, why would he want to get on the stand and run the risk of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory when the prosecution practically handed him the victory, what with their own witnesses blowing up in their faces?

Besides, if pleading the 5th amendment is good enough for Lois Lerner, it's good enough for George Zimmerman.

Face it, just because someone dies doesn't make it murder.

Mark no more insults to people. Poisoned the weak-minded. Nice comment for anyone who does not agree with you. Time to be respectful.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Mark no more insults to people. Poisoned the weak-minded. Nice comment for anyone who does not agree with you. Time to be respectful.

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That would only apply to those who refuse to accept facts as the truth when it's pointed out to them. Naturally, nobody fitting that description would be participating in this discussion.

We're all open to the facts and wouldn't let preconceived prejudices or skewed media reporting, even though it might serve to reinforce those preconceived prejudices, interfere with our decision making process, would we? After all, we're at least as good as that jury, aren't we?

Unless you are speaking of the juror who along with her attorney husband tried to strike a book deal.

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Originally Posted by markw

That would only apply to those who refuse to accept facts as the truth when it's pointed out to them. Naturally, nobody fitting that description would be participating in this discussion.

We're all open to the facts and wouldn't let preconceived prejudices or skewed media reporting, even though it might serve to reinforce those preconceived prejudices, interfere with our decision making process, would we? After all, we're at least as good as that jury, aren't we?

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Oh and remember as far as facts we only heard one side of what happened that night.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Oh and remember as far as facts we only heard one side of what happened that night.

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And everhing said, even before the trial, was corroborated by everything that was brought out during the trial. And, when the cop that night lied and said they had everything on videotape, Z said "Thank God". Yeah, a liar would say that.

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

GZ will probably get nailed in the Civil case.

It boggles my mind how someone accused of murder with almost no credible witnesses is not forced to take the stand. I would think things may have turned out different if the jury actually heard GZ stumble over all the hearsay.

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As I understand, the prosecution cannot force the defendant to take the stand; the defence may do so if it chooses. I suspect it is part of the concept that the defendant should not be forced to incriminate himself.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

As I understand, the prosecution cannot force the defendant to take the stand; the defence may do so if it chooses. I suspect it is part of the concept that the defendant should not be forced to incriminate himself.

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Yeah, I understand that but if he did nothing wrong, had nothing to lie about, and could corroborate everything being said, he should have been jumping at the chance to clear himself.

My view is if YOU are on trial for anything, YOU should be questioned by both sides. This would shorten these trials a great deal and we would not have to listen to weeks of 2nd hand hearsay.

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Call it what you want. You want to look and act like a thug, be prepared to be looked upon with a jaundiced eye. I'd be suspicious of someone like that slinking around my neighborhood, too.

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And what is that suppose to mean? Explain your self?

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Originally Posted by Feanor

I`m afraid the understandable sensitivity of black Americans is central to the arrest & trial saga. For better or worse I think Zimmerman`s attorney was right who said that if Martin had be white (or Zimmerman black), Zimmerman would not have been arrested.

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Feanor...when Zimmermans lawyer said that I was floored....and for you to repeat it shows you dont know what you are talking about. So all of a sudden the law is going soft on black guys who kill white guys? Is THAT what they do in Canada? Because it sure aint where I live. That was a stupid thing to say.

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Originally Posted by Hyfi

GZ will probably get nailed in the Civil case.

It boggles my mind how someone accused of murder with almost no credible witnesses is not forced to take the stand. I would think things may have turned out different if the jury actually heard GZ stumble over all the hearsay.

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Hyfi..im with you! I watched every minute of the trial, and the prosecutor's blew this one. I could have done a better job and got Zimmerman at least on MS charges. But they had not a clue. The case wasn't that hard either. Zimmermans statements showed so many lies it aint funny. And how in the hell did they not get at least one black person on the jury? That just not right....thats total BS.

But to tell you the truth, from listening to juror B37, Martin never had a chance. Did you see her on CNN? They never even considered anything about Martin really...from what she was saying, they believed Zimmerman was innocent from the get go.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

And what is that suppose to mean? Explain your self?

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OK, you asked for it, you got it.

Some kids today strive for the thug look. You really should know that. If not, get on the social media or twatch he local news and see what's going on.

In the off chance you really don't now what I'm taling about, this link should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. If you've seen some of his posed pictures, you'll see he fits right in here. ...and that candid shot in the convenience store wouldn't be out of place either.

This kid succeeded. If you want to slink through a neighborhood at night that's been regularly burglarized over the past few years with a hoodie in Flordia, where it's hot, you better expect to draw stares. Sorry if you don't like it, but them's the apples.

And, I really don't expect too much from someone who called Woods a liar up front. Like your mind wasn't made up before the trial.

Satisfied?

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

So all of a sudden the law is going soft on black guys who kill white guys?

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The media certainly is.

If you read my other posts ere you'll see one where I posted a link where two back guys who shot a baby in the face in is stroller.

I posted another where three (assumed fron te neighborhood it took place in) where three, count 'em THREE, black guys beat a 70 ear-old man with a baseball bat for accidentaly tappingtheir car while parking. ...he later died.

ow about the one where two black kids chased a random 13 year -old white kid in Oklahoma to his porch, threw lighter fluid (or gasoline) on him, hlit im on fire, and said something like "You deserve this, whitey".

Please note that in all three cases, whitey was outnumbered at least two to one. Now, if that's not thuggery on parade, I don't know what is.

So, where's the media coverage for this?

Drop it. I can dig up more unreported black on white crime if you really want.

Oh, check out this link. You'll see the prosecutor threw out a black juror. You'll love the reason why.

Now that Rachel Jeantel using her fifteen minutes of fame hitting the talk show circuit and she's not under oath, she's letting out some interesting tidbits.

It appears there may have been some bigotry involved after all, but it's not white on black

If you want to get aother perspective on what happened that night, rather than my posting any one of the many links on this, go to google and type in the following: "trayvon thought zimmerman was gay". Take your time reading the links that are returned.

Good going, Jenteal. You're doing Trayvons reputation real good.

Enjoy your fifteen minutes.

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Originally Posted by markw

OK, you asked for it, you got it.

Some kids today strive for the thug look. You really should know that. If not, get on the social media or twatch he local news and see what's going on.

In the off chance you really don't now what I'm taling about, this link should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. If you've seen some of his posed pictures, you'll see he fits right in here. ...and that candid shot in the convenience store wouldn't be out of place either.

This kid succeeded. If you want to slink through a neighborhood at night that's been regularly burglarized over the past few years with a hoodie in Flordia, where it's hot, you better expect to draw stares. Sorry if you don't like it, but them's the apples.

And, I really don't expect too much from someone who called Woods a liar up front. Like your mind wasn't made up before the trial.

Satisfied?

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From what I saw, all Trayvon had on was a grey hoody and jeans. In the picture in the store he looked like a thug to you?