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  1. #26
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw View Post
    An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."

    The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"

    " Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.

    "OK," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"

    The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, that’s a very good question. I have no idea."

    The little girl replied, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death, when you don't know s**t?" And then, smiling,she went back to reading her book.
    LOL! That's pretty funny, I must say.

    Well, since it looks like some of you have unresolved issues on this topic I have moved this to the Steel Cage. Even though we haven't quite reached that stage yet...I can't help but feel it's inevitable. So go at it again if you must.

    And BTW, impartiality is not my goal here. The well-being of this site and the participants here is. If you don't feel like the mods are treating you fairly, take it up with management. Having said that, I'm not your baby sitter. You're all grown men and should behave accordingly.

    That is all.

  2. #27
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Atheists...can't run for office in 7 U.S. States?
    Is that true? It seems to me that would go against First Amendment rights.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    Is that true? It seems to me that would go against First Amendment rights.
    I'd like to see some proof of that, too. But, since it's more of rich's delusional BS, I doubt it'll be forthcoming.

  4. #29
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    From Wiki (Discrimination against atheists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    The constitutions of these six US states ban atheists from holding public office:

    Arkansas:

    "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."[78]

    Maryland:

    "That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.”[79]

    Mississippi:

    "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."[80]

    South Carolina:

    "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."[81]

    Tennessee:

    "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."[82]

    Texas:

    "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."[83]

    A seventh state constitution discriminates against atheists by affording special protection to theists only.

    Pennsylvania:

    "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."[84]
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  5. #30
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Perhaps we could all try to use our heads instead of calling BS (both ways)
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  6. #31
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Thanks noddinOff. The silly thing about this is that's it's impossible to prove someone's religious beliefs (or lack thereof). If I wanted to run for office in any of these states, and it was important enough to me, I would just join a church, become very active in the church community, and claim that I found religion. Whether I actually truly believed in a "Supreme Being" would up for the voters' interpretation.

    But I also wonder about my original question...how is this not going against the First Amendment? Or is it just that since nobody has ever challenged the laws in these States they remain on the books.

  7. #32
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by noddin0ff View Post
    From Wiki (Discrimination against atheists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    The constitutions of these six US states ban atheists from holding public office:

    Arkansas:

    "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."[78]

    Maryland:

    "That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.”[79]

    Mississippi:

    "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."[80]

    South Carolina:

    "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."[81]

    Tennessee:

    "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."[82]

    Texas:

    "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."[83]

    A seventh state constitution discriminates against atheists by affording special protection to theists only.

    Pennsylvania:

    "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."[84]
    Apparantly, no atheist has ever shown an interest in serviig the public by running for office in any of those states. If they had, this issue would have been brought up sooner. So, obviously, it's a moot point.

  8. #33
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw View Post
    Apparantly, no atheist has ever shown an interest in serviig the public by running for office in any of those states. If they had, this issue would have been brought up sooner. So, obviously, it's a moot point.
    Or an atheist walks among you. I mean, if an atheist wanted to run for office in one of those states it's not likely they would show their horns.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    Or an atheist walks among you. I mean, if an atheist wanted to run for office in one of those states it's not likely they would show their horns.
    Can you find any athiests that hold any office in any state at all? I can't. And I'm not just looking in those seven states.

    So, it's a moot point. They simply aren't interested in running for office anywhere AFAICT.

  10. #35
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    Interesting is that many of the USAs founding fathers were Unitarian.

    Some of the beliefs are:
    One God and the oneness or unity of God.

    The life and teachings of Jesus Christ constitute the exemplar model for living one's own life.

    Reason, rational thought, science, and philosophy coexist with faith in God.

    Humans have the ability to exercise free will in a responsible, constructive and ethical manner with the assistance of religion.

    Human nature in its present condition is neither inherently corrupt nor depraved (see original Sin), but capable of both good and evil, as God intended.

    No religion can claim an absolute monopoly on the Holy Spirit or theological truth.

    Though the authors of the Bible were inspired by God, they were humans and therefore subject to human error.

    Traditional doctrines that (they believe) malign God's character or veil the true nature and mission of Jesus Christ, such as the doctrines of predestination, eternal damnation, and the vicarious sacrifice or satisfaction theory of the Atonement are rejected.

    So it is of no surprise that no candidate has admitted to being an Atheist knowing very well they will be criticized, chastised, and and deemed unworthy so they may not admit it publicly and play the game it is.

    Also I found this:

    Can there be an atheist president?

    Yes. Many countries do not have any state religion, i.e. they are secular and a specific religion is not prerequisite for being elected.

    Answer 2:

    In fact there have probably been several atheist or agnostic US presidents. Probably the most famous is Jefferson - although he may have been a deist. But Franklin Pierce, although brought up in a religious household, reportedly lost all belief after the death of his son and affirmed his presidential rather than swore it. There is no constitutional reason to prevent an atheist becoming president.

    Answer:

    Yes. In the United States there is a law stating that no religious test shall be required to run for office; however, due to religious bias in the USA, a person who is openly atheist is unlikely to get elected. (Take a look at the fiasco happening in North (?) Carolina because of an atheist in public office. Even with a federal court precidence in Torasco v. Watkins, they're still trying to get him removed from office using an unconstitutional (federal) law that is still in the state's constitution.

    With the number of senators and people in the house of representatives, it is unlikely though that none are atheists. They simply are not open about it for fear of something happening like in Carolina.

    Answer:
    Depends on where you are really. In America, according to the constitution no religious faith is required for positions in office, ie separation of church and state. However, around 75% of Americans believe in God. A presidential candidate announcing his/her atheism would be committing political suicide. In countries like Iran, announcing one's atheism would actually be suicide.

    Read more: Can there be an atheist president




    If the above is true, Romney should already be disqualified

  11. #36
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw View Post
    Apparantly, no atheist has ever shown an interest in serviig the public by running for office in any of those states. If they had, this issue would have been brought up sooner. So, obviously, it's a moot point.
    Kinda like saying no gays ever showed an interest in being in the military until they were allowed to do so. ;-)
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  12. #37
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw View Post
    Can you find any athiests that hold any office in any state at all? I can't. And I'm not just looking in those seven states.

    So, it's a moot point. They simply aren't interested in running for office anywhere AFAICT.
    First of all, that's not a logical argument. (There are no atheists in office therefore no atheists are interested in running). There are all kinds of other reasons that an atheist may choose not to run. Or perhaps they ran for office and were not elected. Or perhaps there are atheists in office and you just don't know it.

    Second, based on the strength of religious beliefs in the USA and the importance that it plays in politics, if I were an atheist who wanted to run for office I would not be waving my atheist flag (as I stated in my last post).

    Third, just because you think it's true (AFAYCT) doesn't make it so.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by noddin0ff View Post
    Kinda like saying no gays ever showed an interest in being in the military until they were allowed to do so. ;-)
    Well, it's been over a year since they were allowed in and I haven't heard of any breaking down the doors to the recruiting centers to enlist. Anoter moot point. Lotsa noise, all for nothing.

  14. #39
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    Gay NWI soldier re-enlists after repeal of Don

    With don't ask, don't tell gone, gay man re-enlists in military - Chicago Tribune

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/us...anted=all&_r=0

    The Repeal of Don

    Maybe some people might find it interesting to learn how to do a google search or maybe it's just a reading-comprehension issue.

  15. #40
    RGA
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    All you have to do is claim to believe in a Deity - any deity - so long as you believe in a creator.

    And as Atheists we believe in a very special deity who we consume fairly regularly. He's a wonderful deity who allows us to eat the body of his being.

    And there is now a church for Atheists Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I thought mods were supposed to be impartial.-flying_spaghetti_monster_icon_by_testingpointdesign.jpg  

  16. #41
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Okay, I've had a bit more time to thoroughly read this...

    Quote Originally Posted by noddin0ff View Post
    Arkansas:

    "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."[78]
    So if you wanted to get out of testifying in court in Arkansas all you have to do is claim that you're atheist? I'm willing to bet that's not well publicized.

  17. #42
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw View Post
    Well, it's been over a year since they were allowed in and I haven't heard of any breaking down the doors to the recruiting centers to enlist. Anoter moot point. Lotsa noise, all for nothing.


    Federal Eye - Eye Opener: Estimate: 66,000 gays in the military

    Eye Opener: Estimate: 66,000 gays in the military
    By Ed O'Keefe

    Happy Tuesday! An estimated 66,000 gay, lesbian and bisexual people are serving in the U.S. military, roughly 2 percent of all military personnel, according to a report released Tuesday by a gay rights policy center. The figures suggest a slight increase in the number of gays, lesbians and bisexuals in the military, and they provide opponents of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy with fresh data as they lobby the Obama administration for its repeal.

    Gays, lesbians and bisexuals account for approximately 13,000 active duty service members, equal to less than 1 percent currently deployed, the report estimated. About 53,000 others serve in the National Guard and reserves, equaling about 3.4 percent.



    I remember a highly decorated soldier speaking to us at a Gay Alliance after his discharge and his words stuck with me. I received a medal for killing men and I was discharged for loving a man. It was then I realized how screwed up things were. Now that gays can serve openly is a step in the right direction and after all they have been serving along side straight service people for years.
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  18. #43
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I received a medal for killing men and I was discharged for loving a man. It was then I realized how screwed up things were.
    There are many contradictions like that in society. One of the most prevalent ones is that nudity and sexual exploits are shunned and made to be dirty and immoral in print and in movies, and yet movies of murder, mutilation, and vice on the boob tube is acceptable and even praised.

    Atheists are like homosexuals in that they have been in the closet, but that is changing. Many people are moving away from religion. They first call themselves spiritualists or say that they believe in a divine being but don't support any religion. For many, this is the first step away from the superstitions that have plagued humanity for most of it's existence.

    The question has been asked if atheists have tried running for office in the states that disallow it and I don't know, but I do know that people have tried to remove these restrictions against atheists, so far without success. It's only a matter of time till they succeed.

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    Oh, and the repeal is little over a year old and the oppression was possibly close to 200 years so I guess someone here thinks a miracle needs to happen to show a huge result after only 1 year.

    Lets revisit the question in 50 years or so

  20. #45
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Lets revisit the question in 50 years or so
    50 Years is, for all intents, a completely different society. 50 years ago it was 1962 and back then no one could have conceived what the world is like today and there's no going back.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSurprenant View Post
    50 Years is, for all intents, a completely different society. 50 years ago it was 1962 and back then no one could have conceived what the world is like today and there's no going back.
    My point was more towards an earlier comment that after the repeal, they are not lined up to enlist.

    I was pointing out that for over 200 years, nobody in the US military could admit they were gay. It has now really only been a year and a few months that they can and it will take much longer than a year to majorly change the percentage of open gays enlisting.

    It will take more than a year or a miracle for it all to change this quickly.

  22. #47
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    Oh, and by the way, I think the Mods here are awesome!

  23. #48
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    My point was more towards an earlier comment that after the repeal, they are not lined up to enlist.
    I understand now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Oh, and by the way, I think the Mods here are awesome!
    I agree. The only thing I would change is to block any posts that contain name calling, especially when it gets really stupid and vindictive. Other than that, two thumbs up!

    I've been to sites where they over moderate and have left because you never know when you might cross the line. You put your heart and soul into replying to a blog only to have it blocked. Not good! They might just as well give you an acceptable list of multiple choice responses rather than allow you to voice your own opinion.

    I've also been to sites that have no moderation and there are fights, but everyone seems to survive. Most people on these sites criticize your beliefs and your honesty, but rarely does it get to a point of anal name calling for the sake of hurting the other person on a personal level.

  24. #49
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Gay NWI soldier re-enlists after repeal of Don

    With don't ask, don't tell gone, gay man re-enlists in military - Chicago Tribune

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/us...anted=all&_r=0

    The Repeal of Don

    Maybe some people might find it interesting to learn how to do a google search or maybe it's just a reading-comprehension issue.
    He was already in and,apparantly, quit happy. As for your other example? OK, that's one.

    ...big whoop.

    FWIW. anyone that enlists has my respect no matter their orientation. They certainly are more "man" than any of the whiners here, and that goes double for the canadians who are so concerned with us. Get used to it guys, and girls, you're like fleas on the back of a big, bad dog. Like it or not, you go where he goes if you wanna keep sucking that blood.

    PS. you might want to keep watch on your northeren "shores where the ice melt is. Lots of new open water with oil under it is quickly becoming international waters, ...better whip that navy into shape...

  25. #50
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    The news media is te miracle you seek.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi View Post
    Oh, and the repeal is little over a year old and the oppression was possibly close to 200 years so I guess someone here thinks a miracle needs to happen to show a huge result after only 1 year.

    Lets revisit the question in 50 years or so
    With all the publicity this issue has gotten, one would tink that vaulted gay pride would have encouraged more than a few to proudly enlist and make a big story of it.

    I guess those that really cared were already in the service and didn't need the publicity to encourage them to enlist.

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