kex --

Agreed on your points but these were simply layman answers to people on AA. Hes was pressed interestingly enough on two major points and he addressed them in another post. One of them was the issue of damping as being "stupid" as you note here -- but the answer was a year later to a different person.

I think his ascertion of shifted energy uis precisely that it is difficult and it requires a lot of work to get it right. It is far easeir to create a speaker and then just damp the hell out of it. I heard a big Canadian speaker the other day and was distressed by how completely DEAD it sounded -- it's been a while to be frank since I've been listneing to other speakers and what I heard was boxy muffled (despite a metal tweeter) and the vocal band sounded like someone threw a wet towel over the proceedings.

As to your point about oom gain - fully agree which is why Peter in his room may not be getting as good a result from the Apogees as someone else might. But then both speakers have to deal with the same rooms.
I think it isn;t so much the bass anyway but the kind of sound that is created. I can't see Tina Turner Rock albums going much under if ever under 40hz -- It is the drum work on many of these kinds of albums that have shown up the weaknesses in most all panels I've heard (except the big ML's but I notice they admit their panels don't do it so they NEED a big old boxed woofer to actually make CREDIBLE realistic bass. Good for ML to recognize the probalem and blatenly admit it for all to see. Big cone woofer.

The problem they have had in the 13 or so years I've heard them is they fall into Peter's noted trap that the the drivers are not of remotely the same dynamicly or a sonic signature match and they just don't mesh properly. Indeed Klipsh has similar problems in that the treble band sounds like it's thrown at you while the bass sort comes around after the fact. Klipsch is called bright, B&W big old metal driver and none of them integrate -- you always hear a suckout in practically every model OR an audible handoff between drivers.

The apogee I heard didn;t get away from being a speaker because as much as the holographic presentaion is "cool" it doesn't sound natural - and after awhile that would be fatiguing to me.

The thing is when I went to AN it was not because they did anything the blew me away...and that was in itself what blew me away. Lastly, an interesting experiment my dealer does with Audio Note J or E is when they are demoing them against anything else they carry they level match with an SPL. Once the person has decided the two sound the same in level -- it is revealed that the AN was actually several db lower...that is why the 705 in my comparison was so frustrating. I would listen to beethoven's Moonlight Sonata with a big expansive full bodied piano with excellent decay and then on the B&W with Much bigger bryston amplifiers I had to turn the volume UP and Up and UP to try and get back what was completely lost...and of course that ends up being futile because the louder I went it then goes into small box compression mode and thins out.

This is why I recommended speakers like PMC in that even though they need a small room and a nearfield listening position man could those things belt it out rock well etc. it may not be my cup of tea going that kinda sound route but if that;s what people like then a transmission line ballsy speaker like these just trounce the 705 like little girlie man speakers -- and the the PMC is cheaper for heaven sake -- and you can turn em active. TB2 versus 705 and I sit in wonder on this one. But the 705 is perty and the TB2 looks like a boring box with a boring name that doesn;t sound like a famous German Car company.