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  1. #1
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    Talking Tang Band Open Baffles

    I recently put together a pair of folding wing OB speakers using the Tang Band W8-1808. The pictures are in my gallery cause I didn't know how to post them here. Would someone be kind enough to transport them here. Thanks.

    I know you all think these OB are ungainly large but their footprint ain't bad and you can fold them up when company comes I'm really sold on OB and it might be awhile before I build another monkey coffin.

    This new Tang Band may be the best FR ever!

  2. #2
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    I'll check em out and move em later ...

  3. #3
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    I'm feeling a lil' jealous... They look real good I hope they sound just as good. I hear a top plate as you have with the speaker connection helps the sound, i forget why though.

    I would personally have the speaker connection down at the bottom though, would make for shorter cable lengths and a more tidy look.

    Are you running a sub with them? I hear OBs have issues with sub 100hz bass and I'm thinking yours is no exception, despite what you have said about them.

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    The Monstros have really good bass on their own. Tried them with my fast little Bob Carver Sunfire but it just wasn't needed. These Tang Bands are just amazing and I see where Parts Express has even dropped the price.

    The shelf at the top functions as a bass trap and it's just a handy place for the Home Depot terminals. If I kept them in one place I would just solder the speaker wires directly to the speakers and be done with it.

    I almost bought a pair of the highly acclaimed German Visaton B200's which are also made for OB. I spoke with a rep who sells both and he said the TB had superior bass and was a better all around performer. Below is a link to a boxed version of the TB. I might build these sometime. Pretty simple with no crossovers and just a bass reflex design.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Floor-standing-F...item3ca9c8d9f7

  5. #5
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    Yes, I hear the Visaton B200 are very popular in OB configurations, and are available here in Europe too. I can't say as much for the 1808 unfortunately for me...

    I hear car audio speakers are good candidates for OB, because they usual have a high Q. This would be a cheap way of knowing whether or not I like IB speakers. Speaking of which, I've just bidded on a pair Infinity 6" by 8" speakers on e-bay.
    Last edited by audio amateur; 03-09-2010 at 11:08 AM.

  6. #6
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    They look fantastic...I'll be there eventually.

  8. #8
    nightflier
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    Not to be nitpicking (they really do look very nice), but by folding the sides back, I presume to hold them up, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of OB? Certainly there must be some reflections occurring back there.

  9. #9
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    If the folded sides aren't too long it shouldn't cause too much harm. It's an easy way of making a large baffle all the while having something that isn't too obstrusive. I believe the sides aren't the same length which I presume helps with reflections. Some guys use dampening material on the back of the folded sides to absorb some reflections, if it is necessary. As it looks here, it probably isn't.
    If you have one flat baffle there are easy ways of keep it standing.

  10. #10
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Actually, proper OB says the sides are the same as the baffle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fostex International
    An open-back type enclosure can be attained if the edges of the flat type baffles are bent. The idea is to make flat enclosures smaller to overcome the necessity of a larger size baffle for richer bass sound. Note must be taken, however, that backward bends sometimes function as a thick pipe. Pipes present at the back of drivers will be a source of pipe size dependent resonance. This fact suggests the possibility of appearance of strong peaks in reproduced sound if enclosures are excessively deep. It therefore is recommended the depth of back opening be at a reasonable extent.



  11. #11
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    Many OB's are just large pieces of plywood but with the folding wings you can reduce their foot print and gain some WAF. Most of the plans I see have the driver off center which is why my wings are of different widths.

    aa - Rather than some car speakers which may sound sh*tty spring for a set of B20 Pioneers at PE. They are proven excellent performers in this configuration and $60 for two ain't bad. I'm telling you this OB thing is scary good.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist
    aa - Rather than some car speakers which may sound sh*tty spring for a set of B20 Pioneers at PE. They are proven excellent performers in this configuration and $60 for two ain't bad. I'm telling you this OB thing is scary good.
    Parts express is based in the US so anything I order there is a hassle to get here, which means if I do order something I want to be sure I want it. I'm hoping to test out the car speakers to get an idea of what OB is like, and experiment. If it is to my liking I will probably and eventually invest in something more expensive in which case I might look at US based sellers if I can't find what I need here.

  13. #13
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    The 8 inch German Visaton BG20 with a Qts of 44 should be readily available in Europe. It costs $41 here. The Visaton B200 costs $150 each when they aren't back ordered.

  14. #14
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    I''ll have a look thanks for the suggestions
    BTW, what's your overall baffle width for the Monstros? Is there a theoretical maximum for let's say a 8" driver?

    Also, is it ok having the wings at a right angle (90 degrees) with the front baffles, if you keep the wings short?

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    The Monstros are 4 feet tall - one wing is 10 inches wide and the other wing is 18 inches wide. The center baffle is 10 inches wide. With a lighter driver I would have gone with a 9 inch center baffle. But the Tang Band with its neodymium magnet is very heavy and I felt it needed the extra support. The center of the driver is 25 inches from the floor. The nice thing about the wings is that you can angle them anyway to suit your preference. Mine sound great with both wings at 90 degrees. Technically they should offer more bass as you spread the wings but the TB's give bass regardless. From everything I've read you can hardly make an OB too large.

    You can make the Monstros from a single sheet of $35 plywood. HD or your lumberyard will make all the cuts for free and you can carry them home in a subcompact. As I've said in other posts, OB's are too simple and not profitable to make like regular enclosures and that is why I suspect they will never be commercially produced.

    I drive the Monstros with a Bada Tube Hybrid ( 95 wpc ) or a modded MiniWatt SET ( 2.5 wpc ) with some gain from a Aric Audio Tube Preamp. SET's are stunningly with efficient FR drivers but the Bada gives the TB's some interesting slam.

    The TB's in OB produce music as close to live as anything I've heard. It's what I've been looking for since I started this hobby many years ago.

  16. #16
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    I'm intrigued at the low Qts of the W8, given the theoretical minimum recomended for OB is 0.5, wheras the W8's is 0.44. What this would normally result in is poor bass response which would need to be compensated with EQ (assuming the speaker in question can handle the boost in the lower octaves).
    Obviously this isn't happening in your setup Good to know.

    BTW, is the phase plug (the golden cone in the middle of the diaphragm) fixed or does it move?
    Last edited by audio amateur; 03-12-2010 at 12:47 PM.

  17. #17
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    The TBs have high mass which I believe also helps in OB. They are superior to my lower mass high Qts OB Betsy's. I've noticed that on a few intense vocals the Betsy's can be a little "shouty" ( whizzer cones ? ) but on the same cuts the TBs are smooth and clear. I still think the Misco made Betsy is a very good full range driver at a fantastic price but the TB is better. At three times the price, it dang should be better.The copper colored phase plugs don't appear to move.

    After listening to the Monstros for awhile my Tekton 4.5's sound thin, even with the fast sub I pair them with. Of course once I adjust to their sound I don't think about them sounding thin. The holographic sound stage of the Montros is incredibly seductive. The Tektons image much better but pin point imaging is not what I hear when I attend a live concert. The Montros sound like live music to me.

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    PG, that's an interesting way to use the TB, thanks for sharing. I'm a fan of OB as well and have found the bass extension can be more than the formulas predict. The hinged wings are a clever idea. Might be worth trying some acoustic treatment on the inside of the wings as early reflections are critical to SQ and imaging.

    You can make an OB "too big." As with everything there is a trade off. As you make it bigger, you lower the dipole roll-off point up until you reach the point where it's response equals infinite baffle. But apart from the size and extension balance, there is also an impact on polar response. Narrower panels generally get a wider polar response. The design of the baffle also impact baffle diffraction. Some go for a narrow baffle not just for looks, but also to achieve a better polar response.

  19. #19
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    Interesting, paulspencer. Would you mind developping your point about polar response, and what exactly it refers to?

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    aa, polar response is similar in meaning to power response. Normally on axis measurements are seen, but polar response shows the response at different angles to show a more complete picture of the total sound that is radiated to the room. On axis response is only a small part of the picture, but polar response gives a much better understanding of how a speaker actually sounds. If you download datasheets for Selenium pro drivers you will see polar plots.

    There is a great article written by Earl Geddes on directivity here:
    http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/directivity.pdf

    Earl pays a lot of attention to polar response in his designs, and in that paper he shows different plots and explains how to read them.

    Linkwitz also pays more attention to this aspect than most and shows off axis response as well.

    Read the paper - it's an eye opener.

  21. #21
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    Thanks Paul. I'll have a look at the article.
    I read a little of your blog, I like it

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    I'll be trying some acoustical foam on the side wings and some cork on the baffle. But I am surprised at how acoustically dead the heavy plywood wings seem without any treatments. I used a thick speaker gasket ( HD weather stripping ) which well isolates the big Tang Bands and keeps them from resonating through the plywood. If cement board wasn't so ugly I'd try some full rangers in them.

  23. #23
    3LB
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    Does Seigfried Linkwitz still sell those Orion kits? The link I had no longer works.

    Linkwitz's design was for three-ways, with a dual woofer section arranged oin a push-pull configuration, which cancels out odd order harmonic distortion...I've used the dipole config to good effect in a BR (the x-over must be low however).

    Here they is: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/
    http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_us.htm
    Last edited by 3LB; 03-29-2010 at 06:01 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Looks like just the flat-packs on that site are $1250.

    Below is an interesting option for the TB which I may eventually try. Wish it scored higher in the WAF.


    http://www.zillaaudio.com/boomer-tb.htm

  25. #25
    3LB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist
    Below is an interesting option for the TB which I may eventually try. Wish it scored higher in the WAF.


    http://www.zillaaudio.com/boomer-tb.htm
    I've corresponded with Godzilla (his web handle) for years. Good guy and very helpful...a true single drvier enthusiast. You should amble over to the Fullrange Driver Forum and give him a shoutout.
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