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  1. #1
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    Which sub with b&w's?

    Hello everybody.
    I've decided to buy the b&w 601s3 for fronts and rears and their center and i'm in a search for the proper sub.I'm between Yamaha YST-SW515,JM Lab Chorus SW700S and Velodyne CHT10R.I'm also planning to buy Yamaha RXV 650 or 750 as an av-reciever.Which one should i choose?Thank you for your time.

  2. #2
    Stereo value > car value texlle's Avatar
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    You're going to want a quick sub with those B&W's. You shouldn't really need anything bigger than a 10". I would either go with the JM Labs or the Velodyne. If you can audition either of them, I would most certainly do that. As for the receiver, looking at both of them, they don't seem too too different. However the 650 is $200 cheaper than the 750. I'd just go with the cheaper one. You will be fine with it, I'm sure.
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Choose a B&W subwoofer
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  4. #4
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    I'm sort of facing the same decision. I just picked up the 601s and the 60 center and was thinking about the Velodyne CHT-10 because it's fairly cheap in the subwoofer world. For some reason, a subwoofer is the last thing I want to throw a lot of money at. If you pick up the Velodyne, let us (read: me) know how it works out.

  5. #5
    asdf bjornb17's Avatar
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    i have a two CHT-10s and a CHT-12 (on different setups). They are both superb.

  6. #6
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    How large a room is this set up in? With the 601's I'm assuming it can't be tremendous but if it's a bedroom sized room (10x12' ish) I'd say an 8 inch sub would do just fine, or a 10 inch sealed. If a larger room you'll be wanting to move a bit more air so maybe step it up a notch , however I bet there's a retailer that would let you do in home trials so you can listen for yourself and see how you feel.

  7. #7
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    The problem is that i cant audition any speakers at all;not even at the store!It's not common sense here in Greece to be able to do that.
    So i have to depent on other people's opinions.
    Nobody seemed to mentioned the yamaha sub.I know it's rather new to the market but is there anyone who has auditioned it?

  8. #8
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    Also my room is kind of square,about 3.5m length

  9. #9
    nightflier
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    Cheap sub - Not the best advice

    Quote Originally Posted by paul_pci
    I'm sort of facing the same decision. I just picked up the 601s and the 60 center and was thinking about the Velodyne CHT-10 because it's fairly cheap in the subwoofer world. For some reason, a subwoofer is the last thing I want to throw a lot of money at. If you pick up the Velodyne, let us (read: me) know how it works out.
    If you're going to spend the money on the 601s3's it would be a shame to buy a "cheap sub." The 601s3's, while excellent speakers, don't go very low and if you want a solid home theater experience, you'll want to also purchase a good sub.

    I also disagree with Flo about sticking with the B&W brand for the sub. There is no timber-matching you need to worry about here, so what you really want to find is a good quality sub. As you'll find on other posts, there are some great subs out there in the $500 range (Hsu & SVS come to mind). Considering that a single sub has to be able to take over from five other speakers at ~50Hz. and below, the value of a good sub becomes apparent. Undoubtedly B&W has good subs (the PV1 looks interesting), but not at the $500 price point, which is really the bottom limit I would consider.

    In picking out a good sub, find one that can go much lower that the 30Hz of cheaper subs. You will need it to match with the B&W's. Also look at the specs and find one that stays very even at these lower frequencies and can maintain higher dB levels down there. While I haven't tried the subs you mentioned, I doubt that a Yamaha or the lower-level Velodyne subs (despite the name) can do that very well. Then again, I haven't heard them , so this is IMO.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika
    Also my room is kind of square,about 3.5m length
    That's a very small room. You're going to get a huge amount of room gain at the low end because of that. The subs that you have listed are all ported subs, which tend to have more linear frequency response, but drop off very quickly at the low end. Depending on how powerful the low end is on those subs that you listed, it might be too much for your room. The goal is good bass, and if the sound is overpowered by the room and sounds boomy, that's not good bass.

    I think you should give the B&W subs a try because their ASW models are sealed box designs (the ASW600 is a 10" sub that sells in the U.S. for $500), which are less efficient and begin to drop off sooner. However, the low end drop off occurs at about the same rate that the room gain boosts the low end. This means that in a small room, the sealed subs will maintain good bass linearity and won't overpower the room. Also, because the bass dropoff is more gradual in a sealed sub, you might actually wind up with deeper bass extension by going with a sealed sub because of how small room acoustics prop up the low bass.

    In a small room, you need to pay especially close attention to where you place the sub as well. This is because small rooms have much more interaction between the various bass frequencies, which creates peaks and nulls. The peaks can make the bass sound unpleasantly boomy, while the nulls can cancel out the bass at specific frequencies. Basically, you want to place the sub where those effects are as minimized as possible. Further corrections can be done using bass traps and/or parametric equalizers. Look for some of the recent threads related to the Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) if you want to read about the benefits of using a parametric equalizer.

  11. #11
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    think you should give the B&W subs a try because their ASW models are sealed box designs (the ASW600 is a 10" sub that sells in the U.S. for $500), which are less efficient and begin to drop off sooner. However, the low end drop off occurs at about the same rate that the room gain boosts the low end. This means that in a small room, the sealed subs will maintain good bass linearity and won't overpower the room. Also, because the bass dropoff is more gradual in a sealed sub, you might actually wind up with deeper bass extension by going with a sealed sub because of how small room acoustics prop up the low bass.
    I'm not sure all the subs are sealed, I believe the AS1 is front ported and the ASW 300 is down-ported. The rest however should be sealed box, which you're right about. Anything bigger than say the ASW 600 though would be overkill IMO for the 601 mains. While the porting on the 300 would typically mean a reduction in the tightness of your bass I've heard it and for it's size I think it's a really powerful tight speaker. Espescially for the $350ish price. It's tough to beat and would probably look great with your system as a bonus.

  12. #12
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    Any chance you can give the Paradigm PDR-10 or PS-1000 a try there? I think Paradigm is available in Greece here:

    http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Deal...lerFrames.html

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aric M L
    I'm not sure all the subs are sealed, I believe the AS1 is front ported and the ASW 300 is down-ported. The rest however should be sealed box, which you're right about. Anything bigger than say the ASW 600 though would be overkill IMO for the 601 mains. While the porting on the 300 would typically mean a reduction in the tightness of your bass I've heard it and for it's size I think it's a really powerful tight speaker. Espescially for the $350ish price. It's tough to beat and would probably look great with your system as a bonus.
    You're right about the ASW300. For your room though, it might actually overpower certain parts of the low frequencies because of the room gain, and then drop off very quickly because of its ported design.

    I don't think the ASW600 would be overkill. The 601 can easily extend down past 80 Hz, so you would use a crossover with any subwoofer. All that the ASW600 would likely provide is deeper and more linear bass response.

  14. #14
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    The JM Lab sub is rated to only 40hz. That's a sub??? Hell, my tiny VR-1 monitors are rated to 40hz. The latest TPV reviewed this exact sub and while stating it was quick and musical, it could not plumb the depths of LFE heavy movies.

    In your price range, I'd consider HSU, DefTech, Paradigm, B&W, and Velodyn. You might also ask Kexodusc here about the Dayton subs (DIY) he has built. He speaks very highly of them and is one of the more knowledgeable members here.

  15. #15
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I think if $500 or less is the total budget then the Dayton subs might not be the greatest option. The 10" is a good sub but it sacrifices low end extension for sound quality, and really needs a BFD for home theater. The 12" is probably a bit out of the desired price-range (which isn't clear to me in this thread).
    I think I'd recommend HSU or Velodyne at this price, or better yet the Rava (shipping might be high). Unless of course building your own is an option. If it is then I envy you. You're in Europe, with all the high-end woofers available to you for cheap, you've got some options.

    I can't agree with topspeed more though, 40 Hz is pretty rotten for a sub. In your small room you might best off to wait and save up some more money, the B&W's should provide some bottom end for now.

    As for receivers....go with the RX-V650, my personal vote for best-value. Unless you need a real fancy remote, the differences are negligible...buy an aftermarket remote and save cash!

  16. #16
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika
    Hello everybody.
    I've decided to buy the b&w 601s3 for fronts and rears and their center and i'm in a search for the proper sub.I'm between Yamaha YST-SW515,JM Lab Chorus SW700S and Velodyne CHT10R.I'm also planning to buy Yamaha RXV 650 or 750 as an av-reciever.Which one should i choose?Thank you for your time.
    Wow,small speakers all around. I know,i use 601's as my surrounds and to me,602's would be better for four but thats besides the point. Doesnt matter what brand,not like it has to match anything. Svsubwoofer,25-31pci would fit.
    Look & Listen

  17. #17
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Well in the end is all personal taste. Subwoofers do have a "sound character" !! The reason why i suggested B&W is because their subwoofers are quite musical. The svs's are in my opinion more the bang and explosion subwoofers, and dont have the finesse for music. Look for a used Rel or Velodyne HGS series. A great musical subwoofer is also the tannoys and the VMPS subwoofers (passive). There are many choices, and first you need to know what your after.

    Dont look at some of those paperweights. Your not gonna find a subwoofer that hits anything close to 20Hz at a high spl at 500$.

    Look at some of these brands

    Tannoy
    VMPS
    Rega (Vulcan)
    Velodyne (HGS Series II)
    JmLab Chorus Series
    Rel
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  18. #18
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Question

    So the svs isnt as good for music,i didnt know that. All the reeviews i've read said they were.? Reviewers that bought one said they were hearing good,clean musical bass they had'nt heard with there old sub's.
    Look & Listen

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    I didnt say they suck in musical bass !!! But the Rel's, Rega's, Tannoy's are in my opinion by far more musical than the SVS's. Just to give you an overview of the speakers i have had so far. (in order of purchase)

    Infinity RS3 (2 way bookshelf)
    NEC SW300S (downfireing 12" sub)
    Onkyo THX S2 (F2) (3 way THX Ultra Fonts)
    Velodyne CT100 (10" subwoofer)
    Magnat Vintage 530 (center)
    Heco Mythos S1 (dipole surrounds)
    Onkyo THX-System 1 (2x THX subwoofers, 3 THX Fronts, 2 THX surrounds)
    Magnepan MG.5QRSE (before MG12)
    Magnepan MG1.6
    JmLab Chorus SW300 (subwoofer)
    Magnepan MG3.6R/SE
    Magnepan MG 3.6R
    VMPS RM30

    I have heard and owned a lot of speakers for my 4 years experience. The SVS's are great subs, but in my opinion not as musical as the JMlab, Rel's, Rega's....

    -Florian
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  20. #20
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Talking

    I didnt say you said they suck either. Not as good for music.
    Look & Listen

  21. #21
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    Not that I have an affintiy, or do not, to B&W speakers... but I have always read and heard from speaker experts that you should match your sub to your front and center speaker.

    Never took stcok in this until I did this with my system.
    For a while I was using a Polk Audio Sub woofer with my Monitro Audio speakers. I finally located the matching sub to my Monitor Audio Fronts and after I replaced the Polk Sub with thew Monitor Audio Sub I could not beleive the difference!! The sub blended seemlessly yet effectivley and not only produced the right amount of bass but kept up with the quick, tight bass of my Front speakers.

    Before it seemed like the Polk was just throwing Bass anywhwere and anytime during music and movies, now the system is balanced , defined and harmonically acurate.

    My vote would be for a B&W subwoofer if they make and if they are in your budget.
    This not to diss other Sub manufactures.

  22. #22
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Malibushirl: This tells me the Monitor Audio sub was either better, or better integrated. There's no reason to match a subwoofer. Matching is actually not really the goal, blending should be. Considering the woofers in subs are usually far larger than that in speakers, a timbre match is unlikely, and most subs are adjustable, allowing you to tune the sub to your system.

  23. #23
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    Question

    Any thoughts about klipsch rw10?
    Is it a better sub than velodyne cht10r or JM Lab sw700s?

  24. #24
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    Blended, yes much better word choice to describe the sound of my system after replacing the Polk Subwoofer. However, I hesitate to say that my sub merely blends in to the overall system as it is very audible in and of itself,. I also want to refrain from commenting that the Polk was inferior as I know there are Polk enthusiasts out there.
    I gave the Polk Subwoofer to a friend and it sounded okay with an infinity speaker set-up.

    So, I guess the consensus is to look for a sub that blends well with the B&W...but then wouldn't a B&W sub be designed to better blend with B&Wspeakers ???? Just seems like a natural fit.


    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Malibushirl: This tells me the Monitor Audio sub was either better, or better integrated. There's no reason to match a subwoofer. Matching is actually not really the goal, blending should be. Considering the woofers in subs are usually far larger than that in speakers, a timbre match is unlikely, and most subs are adjustable, allowing you to tune the sub to your system.

  25. #25
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    As important as it is to try to get same brand of front 3 speakers,its not important to get same brand sub.
    Look & Listen

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