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  1. #1
    Forum Regular axelsrd's Avatar
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    Stacking Speakers

    I have read about people who have stacked speakers (4 of the same speaker, one on top of the other), two sets of two. Just wanted to make it somewhat clear. What is the purpose of stacking and could I stack Pioneer HPM 40's/60's? If I did this, I would be running them through a Sansui AU-719 Integrated. What advantage do I gain by stacking?

    As always, thanks in advance.

    Randy

  2. #2
    Lurker Hyfi's Avatar
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    Lots of folks over at AudioKarma talk about this. Lots of them have many pairs of speakers and Vintage Receivers. I am really unsure why anyone would want to do it other than compensating for problems with the speakers or gear they use.

    I'm sure someone will come up with a good reason. I guess it also may be so they don't have to put 1 pair on the other side of the room while running both A & B outs.
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  3. #3
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    IMO:
    Most of those many pairs of speakers are because none of them sound very good. Stacking them doesn't make for better sound. You just have a large stack of crap.
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  4. #4
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axelsrd View Post
    What advantage do I gain by stacking?
    There are a few benefits:

    1. Greater efficiency
    2. Higher power handling
    3. Increased image size

    Back in the 70s, the Advent speaker was commonly stacked in twos - sometimes threes. The Absolute Sound did a review of the Double Advent in its first issue back in 1973. I took that approach then and a few years back purchased another set used in the vintage garage system.

    Doubling the speaker gives you 3db more output. If your amp doubles down power at lower impedance (and can handle the load), you can pick up another 1-2 db. I've used mine outdoors for the neighbor's Halloween Party where they play pretty loudly with 400 honest watts.

    The ideal way is to invert the upper pair so that you get a quasi- MTM arrangement with woofers at top and bottom with mid/tweeters in the middle. The tradeoff is comb filtering. What you lose is precise imaging in the nearfield. The amount depends upon the number and alignment of drivers. Since the Pioneers are four ways with side-by-side drivers, the effect would be a bit greater.

    Remember that running two speakers in parallel drops the load in half. Two 8 ohm speakers become a 4 ohm load. In my case, Double Advents go as low as 2.3 ohms at certain frequencies. The question is whether or not your amplifier is happy driving such a load.

    For most of my listening, the added efficiency allows the amp to stay in class A - which sounds a touch better than in AB. Or, in full party mode, it will play louder for hours on end. For one party, I ran them wide open for about four hours which totally wore out the surrounds in one pair!


  5. #5
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Many years ago when I was becoming aware of high end audio I read about a stacked system I would have loved to hear. The system consisted of a stacked pair of Quad electrostatics with a Decca ribbon tweeter between the Quads and a Janis subwoofer filling in the bottom range.

    Morel several years ago took one of their monitors built a frame and inverted another pair for a stacked pair of monitors. Another stacked pair I would like to hear.

    It has been since the mid 70's that I heard a pair of stacked original Advent's. I can only say at the time I was impressed.
    JohnMichael

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  6. #6
    Forum Regular axelsrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9 View Post
    IMO:
    Most of those many pairs of speakers are because none of them sound very good. Stacking them doesn't make for better sound. You just have a large stack of crap.
    LOL. That is always the first thing that comes to mind, but I thought I would ask anyway. So my dilema now is what speakers to match to the Sansui. I have AR 11's and KLH Model 6 s and neither sound excellent. they sound good but I need a 3 way me thinks. Hell, I don't know what I need. I just know that I am not getting the full range that I am looking for. Maybe go new and get away from vintage. Ugggggggh. I don't think my lovely bride will understand another set of speakers, or turntable, or receiver/amp. Soooo, if I get another set of speakers, I am going to have to get rid of a Marantx 2230/ 2270, Rotel RX 1050, the AR 11's and the KLH's, and I also have a pair of Klipsch RB 35 that may have to go as well. What's a guy to do?

  7. #7
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Many years ago when I was becoming aware of high end audio I read about a stacked system I would have loved to hear. The system consisted of a stacked pair of Quad electrostatics with a Decca ribbon tweeter between the Quads and a Janis subwoofer filling in the bottom range.
    The system was called the Mark Levinson HQD system. To split hairs, it used huge Hartley 24" subs. Google "Levinson HQD system" and you'll find lots of images.

    HQD System

    I had the chance to hear a set with JWC back in the 70s. It definitely addressed the smallish image and somewhat limited output capability of a single pair of ESL-57s. I still preferred his Dayton-Wrights. Naturally, I have a fondness for large electrostatic arrays. The following is a link where you'll find triple Quads and a bit below, my speakers with the UB-1 subwoofers in the middle.

    Speaker "porn"
    Last edited by E-Stat; 05-08-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    E-Stat you of course are correct.

    The stacked bookshelf speakers I was trying to remember was the Morel Octave.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    JohnMichael

    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Ringmat Anniversary mat, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, GSP Fanfare 3 w/PSU1

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  9. #9
    stuck on vintage dingus's Avatar
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    theres no harm in trying... you might like the results, or you might not.
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  10. #10
    Lurker Hyfi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9 View Post
    IMO:
    Most of those many pairs of speakers are because none of them sound very good. Stacking them doesn't make for better sound. You just have a large stack of crap.

    Sounds like a little AK Vintage Envy to me
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  11. #11
    Forum Regular axelsrd's Avatar
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    OK, so I don't stack. Now I am at a dilema. What full range (3+ way) speakers to get that will compliment my Sansui AU719? My KLH's, AR's Klipsch RB35"s don't do it. Or, do I get rid of the Sansui and stick with my Marantz 2230, 2270, or Rotel 1050. But then I need a speaker that is going to compliment one of the Marantz's or the Rotel.

    Maybe I should draw a nice warm bath and open a vein...LOL

    Randy

  12. #12
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axelsrd View Post
    OK, so I don't stack. Now I am at a dilema. What full range (3+ way) speakers to get that will compliment my Sansui AU719? My KLH's, AR's Klipsch RB35"s don't do it. Or, do I get rid of the Sansui and stick with my Marantz 2230, 2270, or Rotel 1050. But then I need a speaker that is going to compliment one of the Marantz's or the Rotel.

    Maybe I should draw a nice warm bath and open a vein...LOL

    Randy
    In my experience there is no real rhyme or reason to why some recievers or amps match up better with some speakers than others. All of your receivers are quality pieces so no worries there.

    I used to have a AU-505 intergrated amp that matched up really well with my DCM Time Frame and Time Windows. You may want to look around your local CL or thrifts and see if you can find a pair and give them a try.

  13. #13
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    I tried stacking box speakers in 1969. Stacking two mediocre speakers/channel is not much of a benefit w/r/t using one of those medicore speakers/channel.

    It is best to avoid trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... even tho Anderson Accounting actually did this c1979 (see Fortune). So ....... go quality.

    I use Mackie HR824Mk2 speakers in the kitchen and they work very well. See Amazon.com (30 day return...) and Mackie.com. I do not sell Mackie speakers nor do I work for Mackie, so I do not give a damn if you try Mackies or not.

  14. #14
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Large Advents are the only ones that I have heard of that were successful, but in that era you had to have a big garage and a big bong to go with them. But when they rocked........THEY ROCKED!!!!!!!!!!

    I am waiting for a dirt cheap pair to snag and stack them with my pristine original pair, but I don't expect any audiophile revelation.
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  15. #15
    Forum Regular budgetaudio76's Avatar
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    Ive used stacked Infinity RSa with great results. Similar to the advent in that tehy are a woofer and a tweeter. But in the infinities case you have a ribbon tweeter.

    Though i will say the sound you get out of them is amp dependant. Best sound out of them i got was with pioneer SX 1500td and a close second was with a M70 yammie.
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  16. #16
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    Keep it simple .

    Why stack speakers , when you can buy a couple pairs of KEF
    Blade Speakers , for only $30,000 , a pair . And do they sound nice.
    62 1/2 inches high , 126 lbs . By amp at 50 to 400 watts .
    frequency response 40 hz 35 khz .+/_3 db and 28hz -45khz+/_6 db.
    at 4 ohms .
    If those don't impress you , check out Martin _Logan Quest , at $60,00 .
    Or Westlake Audio SM_IF 5 way speakers for a cool $50,000.
    Or buy a pair of KEF Q900 For $1900. and You won't have
    to stack them .And they sound great good for higher frequencys their response is 32 hz _40 Khz , powered by Cambridge Audio .

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