Speaker placement, toe-in

[JohnMichael]

I am not sure if this is correct but I seem to have more trouble finding the sweet spot for speakers in smaller rooms. I also make myself crazy over toe-in adjusting time and again. Well I think I solved my problem.

I did use the MA RS6's for this experiment since I could see me knocking an OML1 off it's stand. I stood the speakers closer together facing forward. While playing music I would inch the speakers further away from each other. I moved them apart until the center fill weakened then brought them back a step. Still without using toe-in.

The speakers are sounding good and no need to obsess. The highs are smoother now that the tweeters are not aimed at the listening chair. Closer together with no toe-in in my smallish room seems to be the way to go. Next up same trial with the OML1's.

[JohnMichael]

This is the first time I have used the shorter wall for my speakers. In the past the speakers have always been on the long wall and I was against the the other long wall while listening. Close to the long wall I always dealt with a few reflections. I do like sitting in the middle of the room with no walls close to reflect sound.

My speakers are a little over 3 ft. from the rear wall and a little over 6 ft. apart with no toe-in. I am about 7 ft. away in my listening chair. The distance from the side walls vary since the windows are not centered in the room and I centered my equipment stand with the windows.

This is the best sound I have achieved in my room with my design aesthetic.

[JohnMichael]

I need to report that I have found the sweet spot for the RS6's. Since I did the last adjustment of facing the speakers forward and a little closer together they have been sounding musical.

I have worked with these speakers and now all the work has paid off. I do not know if it was my room or the speakers that were difficult but I have nailed it now. I am very happy with the sound and pleased that I finally found happiness with speakers I already own.

Speaker placement and tweaks to my ttable has kicked my system up several notches. I am pleased with everything.

[frenchmon]

Glad to see you are having fun with your system. I use no toe in as well. I find the presentation much better than a toe in. And speaking of Monitor Audio, I am going to a listening party Saturday to take a listen to some Monitor Audio Gold GX100. I cant wait to hear that ribbon tweeter.

[JohnMichael]

Glad to see you are having fun with your system. I use no toe in as well. I find the presentation much better than a toe in. And speaking of Monitor Audio, I am going to a listening party Saturday to take a listen to some Monitor Audio Gold GX100. I cant wait to hear that ribbon tweeter.

Let me know your impressions. Now that I finally have the RS6's sounding good in my room I am much more interested.

[Feanor]

Roll-off recommendations are funny. Take Audio Note for example; they recommend that the speakers be right in the corners and that the speakers be set 90 deg. with respect to each other. This very often will result on the speakers being toed-in 'way beyond pointing directly at the listener. Only plausible explanation is that this minimizes wall reflections.

Magnepan recommends that their speakers, at least the MMG and MG 1.6QR, be toed in to aimed directly at the listener. This make sense in that the QR mid-tweeters roll off high frequencies off axis. (Magnepan also offers that you get better phase matching between the drivers.) Nevertheless in one pole at AA, a majority seemed to favour aiming at a point some distance behind the listener, i.e. with less toe-in than recommended.

[JohnMichael]

Roll-off recommendations are funny. Take Audio Note for example; they recommend that the speakers be right in the corners and that the speakers be set 90 deg. with respect to each other. This very often will result on the speakers being toed-in 'way beyond pointing directly at the listener. Only plausible explanation is that this minimizes wall reflections.

Magnepan recommends that their speakers, at least the MMG and MG 1.6QR, be toed in to aimed directly at the listener. This make sense in that the QR mid-tweeters roll off high frequencies off axis. (Magnepan also offers that you get better phase matching between the drivers.) Nevertheless in one pole at AA, a majority seemed to favour aiming at a point some distance behind the listener, i.e. with less toe-in than recommended.

This is the first time I have used no toe-in. The combination of moving the speakers closer and then further apart for the best center fill really helped me find the sweet spot. Being off axis to the metal dome tweeters is a good thing. Looking back at a test in Stereophile there is a peak in the tweeters response. I spent too much time on axis.

I would think toe-in is good for panel speakers or speakers using a full range driver. The RS6's with the 6 inch drivers and the 1 inch dome have good horizontal dispersion.

I used to place speakers as far apart as I could and use toe-in for a more solid center. Now I know with the RS6's this was the wrong way for my room.

[GMichael]

I have found that the more I toe-in my speakers, the larger my sweet spot. I can have company over and they hear movies just as well as I do, no matter where they sit (within reason). For music, I find that less toe-in gives me better imaging. It seems to be a trade off. Less toe-in does give me more reflections, but nothing I can't live with. The room has plenty of treatments. Trial and error I guess.

[Worf101]

I hadn't given the toe-ins on my ADS 1290's a single thought in years... Now all this discussion have awakened the Dr. Frankenstein in me. Arrrgh. I hate you bums!

Worf

[JohnMichael]

I hadn't given the toe-ins on my ADS 1290's a single thought in years... Now all this discussion have awakened the Dr. Frankenstein in me. Arrrgh. I hate you bums!

Worf

Worf we do what we can.


I am so glad I worked one more time with the RS6's. All the reviews were glowing but I could not get them to sound like the reviewers did. Well now they are singing sweetly.

[GMichael]

I hadn't given the toe-ins on my ADS 1290's a single thought in years... Now all this discussion have awakened the Dr. Frankenstein in me. Arrrgh. I hate you bums!

Worf

It just gives you something to do.
We know how bored you get sometimes.

[Mash]

The most important concept about speaker toe-in is that if you do not drop the speaker you will not get your toe in.

[JohnMichael]

Here is how the system looks now.

[JohnMichael]

The new curtains seem to have an audible benefit. Since they are lined I have better focus since I have less reflections from the windows behind the speakers.

I should also have a cooler listening room since the lined curtains will not let the room warm with all the sun that the sheers let in to solar heat the room. If the AC does not run as much less ambient noise to interfere with the music.

[RGA]

I like your listening room and set-up - though every time I see a room that has corners available I start thinking - "this is what I would do" ;-)

cheers,

[tube fan]

Here is how the system looks now.

I don't like the looks of this: small speakers in a small room. Have small speakers ever impressed me? NO!!!

[E-Stat]

Here is how the system looks now.

You've adopted what Harry Pearson has long promoted as the "rule of thirds" for best imaging and minimized room modes. Understandably, it seems you are unable to fully achieve that goal lengthwise in the room.

Nice arrangement!

[JohnMichael]

You've adopted what Harry Pearson has long promoted as the "rule of thirds" for best imaging and minimized room modes. Understandably, it seems you are unable to fully achieve that goal lengthwise in the room.

Nice arrangement!

Thanks E-Stat. Yes I like how well everything is sounding now. Since it is just me and the dog I have plenty of room. I one day hope to have a smaller place in Paris.

[tube fan]

Your listening position HAS to be exactly between the two speakers to get the best sound. No way around that!

[Feanor]

Your listening position HAS to be exactly between the two speakers to get the best sound. No way around that!

That's right -- which is why multi-channel has a center channel; it's to center and stabilize the L+R sound image.

[JohnMichael]

That's right -- which is why multi-channel has a center channel; it's to center and stabilize the L+R sound image.

Feanor I am actually centered between the speakers but the angle I shot from and the wide angle lens makes it look less so. I do lean a little to the right but the sound, imaging and depth is now quite good. Ah the magic of two channel.

[JohnMichael]

I like your listening room and set-up - though every time I see a room that has corners available I start thinking - "this is what I would do" ;-)

cheers,

Reminds me of an old coffee commercial "we are secretly replacing his speakers with AN speakers tucked in the corners".

[Enochrome]

Does the desk get in the way, in the manner of reflections?

That is a great set up!!! How far are you from the MA's?

[JohnMichael]

Does the desk get in the way, in the manner of reflections?

That is a great set up!!! How far are you from the MA's?

The right speaker is close but not as close to the desk as it appears in the picture. I think the desk would be more problematic if it was not on four legs but solid from the floor up.

I am about 7 feet from the speakers and they are about 6 feet apart. I like not having a wall directly behind my chair. In my last apartment I was bothered by rear wall reflections when the wall was behind my seat.

Sorry I did not see your post before. I was focused on my turntable upgrade which was very successful.