Sonus faber vs Marten

[johnathan500]

Hey guys ~ i am gonna get one these, but i am wounding which is the best , do anyone got some advice ? Thanks Buddy

1)Sonus faber AMATI
2)Marten Bird
3)Marten GETZ

[Ajani]

Considering that those speakers are all in the $20K to $30K price range, I'd suggest doing very careful auditioning of each one... Only your ears matter....

[Mr Peabody]

I have heard the Sonus Faber up to the $12k model, I think the Cremona and in my opinion they are bested by other brands in the same price. I have not heard Marten.

Have you heard Revel Studio or Dynaudio Confidence? That's where I'd be listening along with the Canton Reference series.

[RGA]

Sonus Faber makes fine speakers - it comes down to whether their darker nature appeals to you. They're never bright or fatiguing - I would be careful what gear you put in front of them to drive them.

I have only heard Marten at CES and I liked them but the same advice follows - with Cary it didn't quite have enough gusto. I much prefer Marten to Dynaudio Confidence or Revel Studio speakers. They have a different take on things which you may enjoy but if Sonus is your front runner (number 1) then you probably like that sort of presentation which means you probably won't like the Dynaudio and Revel house sound.

If this size and shape of speaker is appealing to you I would add two others - Usher Be 10 and Sony's new flagship SS - AR1loudspeaker. The Usher is one of the few speakers in this size and shape class that I like - has cohesion (rare in 3+ way designs) has bass that is in sync with the rest of the spectrum and is not overdone like most speakers. The new Sony (if you can get past the name brand) is also very good.

But if you've heard those and these are your finalists you really don't need us.

[Mr Peabody]

Dynaudio and Revel have distinctly different "house sounds", I mentioned both as I think both are fine speakers.

I recently heard a Sim Audio Evolution system with a Weiss front end, first driving the Cremona and then the new Dynaudio Focus at only $5k, The Cremona played lower and more punch but overall had me wonder why any one would pay $12k when the $5k set sounded better. I also heard the Sonus driven by Boulder, the speakers just don't do anything for me.

[RGA]

Mr. P

I'm not in disagreement on your taste with regards to the Sonus Faber line - to me the prices are too high for the sound you get but they do have a house sound people like - people also like the house sound of Vandersteen and Thiel and I never could understand either as they sound painfully "dull" and overly polite to me.

But people seem to respond to that sound - I kind of include Sonus Faber in that group of "staid" "polite" presentation. I felt that way about the M97xE cartridge that everyone raves about. On the flip side they rarely sound inoffensive or grating so that is a plus. The M97xE is $100 though - when spending many thousands I want more than "safe."

Usher seems a bit of a betweener - it has a lot of the get up and go of leaner speakers but also doesn't have any fatigue that I noticed - from a general design I'm not big on but it works.

Marten to me leaned on the warm side but it was connected to tube stereotype amps in Cary. I am not a big fan of Cary SET because the ones I hear tend to sound warm and fuzzy and play into the stereotype - some people love it though.

[frenchmon]

I've listened to a great extent, Cary driving a pair of Dali Helicon 400 MK2. Nothing week about the Cary that I could tell. The Cary/Dali sounded great! I've too listened to Sonus Fiber...speakers aren't bad, but are a tad polite...I thought the Toy stand mount sounded better than the Toy floor standers. The Cremona really did not wow me...but you really never know about a speaker until you get it in your system, in your room. Its hard to say what they really are like until you get them out of the store into a real home.... .Revels are great speakers....

[RGA]

Just a note - some stores are "real homes" and as such listening in store with professional set-up - often by the makers themselves - then it should sound "better" in such stores than you will ever get it to sound in your home.

This is one kind of store for example A house in the hills with several rooms each with a dedicated stereo system.

Audio Federation - Extreme high-end home audio - Hear Everything!

[frenchmon]

Just a note - some stores are "real homes" and as such listening in store with professional set-up - often by the makers themselves - then it should sound "better" in such stores than you will ever get it to sound in your home.

This is one kind of store for example A house in the hills with several rooms each with a dedicated stereo system.

Audio Federation - Extreme high-end home audio - Hear Everything!

Negative...its not your gear.

[RGA]

Negative...its not your gear.

Not sure I understand. The idea is to hear a given product at its best - not to hear it the way it may sounds on your system. The fact what you heard in the store blows your system away in your house should tell you that you need to fix your room or replace your gear.

The premise often sighted by some audiophiles is that stores are worse because they're stores and not homes - and yet they offer zero reason for this.

The maker did not build his speakers to operate ONLY in one customers home. They SHOULD be designed to work in a number of different environments or they are LOUSY speaker designers.

I want to hear the product at its best - and if I can't get that in my home then it's the fault of my room or system. Not what the product is capable of.

Obviously a speaker like the new top Sony is great under show conditions - I can't get that because I don't have the space for the speakers - so it won't be on my shopping list - but the speaker itself is terrific even if I can't get those results in my home.

[Feanor]

Not sure I understand. The idea is to hear a given product at its best - not to hear it the way it may sounds on your system. The fact what you heard in the store blows your system away in your house should tell you that you need to fix your room or replace your gear.

The premise often sighted by some audiophiles is that stores are worse because they're stores and not homes - and yet they offer zero reason for this.

The maker did not build his speakers to operate ONLY in one customers home. They SHOULD be designed to work in a number of different environments or they are LOUSY speaker designers.

I want to hear the product at its best - and if I can't get that in my home then it's the fault of my room or system. Not what the product is capable of.

Obviously a speaker like the new top Sony is great under show conditions - I can't get that because I don't have the space for the speakers - so it won't be on my shopping list - but the speaker itself is terrific even if I can't get those results in my home.

A really silly line of reasoning. OK if your first priority is to listen to speakers. But if your interested in listening to music in you home, it's nonsense.

In a given situation a lot might be done with room treatments but there are often limits to what treatements a person can implement. Treated or not, you have listen where you live and you need a speaker that sounds right there.

[frenchmon]

Not sure I understand. The idea is to hear a given product at its best - not to hear it the way it may sounds on your system. The fact what you heard in the store blows your system away in your house should tell you that you need to fix your room or replace your gear.

Hahahaha! Oh brother!

Im done RGA

[manlystanley]

So, I can't avoid throwing in my 1.5 cents here. I am entirely different then most of you guys. You have rarefied tastes, and as such know exactly what you like. With me, sometimes I don't know what I like. So, I'm sure that a 20K system would not trip my trigger much more then the 2K system that I put together.

But, I do know, very broadly what I like. For example, I like:

-- Darker sounds.
-- Clear treble, but not bright.
-- Lots of dynamics. Maybe not accurate reproduction, but fun to listen to.

When I looking for new front speakers, I almost bought the Sonus faber liuto's cause I found a deal where they were selling for (the pair) $2,500. But, I just could not justify the expense, so I got my Jamo C809's for $1,200.

So, my very untrained/unrefined audio opinion would be, if your thinking about spending that kind of money. You really need to:

-- Make sure that you have a listening room that you can fully control. You need to spend lots of time/money to condition the room for the best room acoustics. If your putting these speakers into a family room where your wife determines the furniture and placement: then why bother spending that kind of money? I found that building 9 large (4 x 2 foot) sound absorbers and putting them into a dedicated listening room was a cheap way to make an ordinary system--sound incredibly better.

-- You don't mention anything about what is going to drive the speakers. Will it be a high end Denon AVR? Then again, why bother spending that kind of money on speakers?


Best regards,
Stan

[RGA]

manlystanley

I agree - a room can improve the overall sound - but depending on the speakers the room is still secondary unless it is hugely problematic for some odd reason - like empty and has is made of plywood and has slap echoes that linger for many seconds (or the Gymnasium effect).

The room simply won't destroy a great system - it will still sound much better than a lesser system - room treatments or not. Take an audio show - most every high end stereo company - 100s of them - bring their wares to such a show. All of them have pretty much the exact same room to deal with. You can tell which ones sound better - a room that sounds truly terrible and the gear is suited for said room size is not going to be transformed from toad to prince merely by sticky a bass trap in the corners and putting foam on the walls. Not happening. You can tame this or that effect - bass boom and too much sparkle.

IME better gear sounds better. And after all - if you can improve the $1k speaker with treatments you can do the same with $10k speakers - either way a better speaker is still better and will achieve better sound. And they will do so in lesser rooms as well.

[Ajani]

I "somewhat" agree with RGA.... I agree that best way to audition is to listen to entire systems rather than trying to mix and match individual components. I also agree that a auditioning a full system in an "appropriate" dealer's listening room can give you a good idea of how that system will sound in your own home.

However, I think for most persons it is not usually practical or possible to do so.

To this day, the setup I most enjoyed listening to was at a dealer in Toronto. It was a typical 14 x 12 ft room... Speakers and electronics on the long wall. A typical couch on the other wall facing them and carpet on the floor... That's it... no load of magic room treatments etc... the back of the speakers were about 1 to 1.5 ft from the front wall... So essentially the kind of layout many audiophiles will have in a second bedroom... The equipment (all discontinued now): Monitor Audio GS20 Towers, Musical Fidelity X-T100 50 Watt Hybrid Integrated Amp & Musical Fidelity X-Ray V8 CD Player. I thought that was the ideal dealer setup for many audiophiles... A realistic listening room with appropriately priced and sized gear... And the music sounded so sweet IMO... I sat intoxicated for over an hour listening to my CDs (the second time I auditioned that system)...

My ideal would be to buy a full system like that...

However, I must note that having visited around a dozen HiFi dealers in Toronto, that that one dealer (Audio Excellence in Yorkville - only a web presence now) was the ONLY dealer with such a setup. The others generally had large listening rooms, often with a single chair in the middle of the room and speakers miles from the wall. Or had no real listening room and had tons of systems lining the wall of the store with a few stools available for you to plop down in front of a system and listen...

[Feanor]

...
However, I must note that having visited around a dozen HiFi dealers in Toronto, that that one dealer (Audio Excellence in Yorkville - only a web presence now) was the ONLY dealer with such a setup. ..

BTW, Audio Excellence, (presumable the orignal co. or sucessor), has a store front on Bayview north of the 401 highway; see HERE.

I bought my Magneplanars from them. I drove from London, ON, to pick them up.

[Ajani]

BTW, Audio Excellence, (presumable the orignal co. or sucessor), has a store front on Bayview north of the 401 highway; see HERE.

I bought my Magneplanars from them. I drove from London, ON, to pick them up.

Actually, If I'm not mistaken those 2 stores are unrelated (or were related a very long time ago). I believe (though my memory could be wrong) that I asked the owner of the Yorkville store about it.

Ironically, the store North of the 401 is where I had the worst audition of my life with a pair of Magnepan MG12s... It's also where I first heard and fell in love with Revel speakers...

[Mr Peabody]

RGA, in an attempt to make a point you entered into some big generalizations. There are too many variables to say a speaker will sound the same in any environment. I think as much as the room, folks want to bring the speakers home to hear if they have synergy with their system. As you said not many go into a store and buy a complete system.

When I first heard Dynaudio's Evidence I was impressed, the same store had the speaker again in a new building and I was wondering what was wrong. Both locations had the individual room motif. So I can't buy your theory. Just as your beloved Audio Note speakers aren't going to sound the same in every room Especially if the room had lack of wall enforcement. Or, panels wouldn't be good in my more narrow room.

[RGA]

MR. P

I never said they would sound the "same" in "any environment."

But this is a product that is meant to enjoy music on - and they should and most are designed to work in a "typical" room environment.

Using an example because I have a pair - The AN E and J are meant to be corner loaded in a given square region. This is the ideal position to sound their best. It is not a requirement however to get good sound from them. Hi-Fi choice has had both speakers continuously win every blind panel listening session they've been in (liking them so much they bought two sets over the last 20 years to be used as their reference) - and their room has no corners. So this is a speaker placed in the least best way you can place them and they like them over other speakers placed in their ideal free standing position. A dealer in HK has them set up free standing and the sound is "elite." despite being free standing and having no toe in.

The bass is deep enough free standing for the vast majority of music so even not corner loaded there is enough dynamics weight and heft to the sound to be full bodied which is why Hi-Fi Choice noted that the AN J (without corners) still beat the floorstanding speakers it was up against for bass.

This is because the sound of the actual speaker doesn't fundamentally change. What changes in rooms is frequency response - but so what - the ear is known to be a huge compensation filter for frequency response. After a few minutes to adjust it really doesn't matter much if a part of the band is a few db down (really depends where it is). The bigger problem tends to be bass boom which is why I try not to judge such aspects of the sound at a show or a dealer because usually you can compensate for that with positioning. You can't compensate for poor driver integration - no room can fix it - nor can a sluggish sounding long throw woofer design - they sound that way no matter the room they're in.

There are many other factors involved - the equipment - the mood of the listener - the type of music you heard in one place versus the other place - and of course room and set-up.

I completely agree with your experience listening to a speaker and getting totally different results - of course this happens and has to me. The 1.7 with Audio Note Soro and AN CD 2.1 sounded wonderful - so much better than hearing same speakers with Bryston 28B and a computer digital source (which sounded rather obnoxious). Same speakers - very different sound - but in fact with the AN gear - the room was considerably WORSE than the room connected to the Brystons. The room was not the problem or a help.

And with my own AN K speakers a number of years back - I had them in a 13 X16 closed room (in corners with big toe in) with Sugden and I enjoyed them - but a fellow audiophile who didn't much care for the AN K had them 3 feet into the room and 8 feet from side walls in a big livng room less than 3 inches beside another set of loudspeakers running 200 Watts power amps from Odyssey (Stratos). He claimed they were bright - he put special speaker dampening pucks on top of them.

I am sure you know a little about Audio Note speakers in that the last thing they're about is being damped. So this guy is putting dampening pucks on them and that may be fine for a Dynaudio, Totem or Paradigm (maybe) designed for that but it runs completely counter to the manufacturer's intent. Then he's running 200 Watt high damping factor amplifiers (which the speaker manufacturer would think is the worst sound in the world) in a room 3 times the size the speaker was designed to operate in. I heard them in his room and yup if I heard that stereo I would not walk out wanting to buy those loudspeakers. So I am in 100% agreement on the room matters and the gear matters and the set-up matters.

What I was saying was that if you get the basics right - you set the speakers up according to manufacturer recommended set-up - you run gear that is noted to be a good match (in other words something the manufacturer would run), and you set it up in the room size the speaker is meant for - not an evidence master in a 10X 9 bedroom or a Totem Model one in a 40 X 78 room then you should get fairly uniform sound.

The other factor is music played. At Audio Shows most rooms play a series of a few CD's of known repute. Or music that puts their speakers in the best light. It is far easier in a sense to judge those rooms because if you are playing a great recording the sound should be great or perhaps it's the system's fault. What do you do with room like Audio Note or Trenner and Freidl when you walk in and they are playing music regardless of the quality of the recording.

A system can't transform a frog into a prince - maybe a nicer looking frog but still a frog. And the opposite of that are room like Magnepan that choose all the music to be played on them and choose the volume setting as well. They get to select a very narrow selection of what the speakers can do well. The owner and dealer of Soundhounds admitted they prefer doing the same thing with these speakers. They want to control the "what" gets played and the how loud it gets played.

Time being short at an Audio Show - it is very easy to walk in and jump to conclusions about soundstage, bass, treble fatigue factor etc of a loudspeaker playing a few cuts from bad recordings and compare it to another room playing immaculate recordings of a different genre.

Because I listen to a wide enough ray of music I can throw highly compressed pop and generally poor recordings (Madonna Hard Candy) to very good recordings of the same artist and genre (Madonna "Immaculate Collection) and I can bring my Oboe pieces, my Beethoven and Vivaldi and Sophie Milmans etc.

Even the rooms that sounded terrific sometimes won't let you listen to your own music the Pass Labs/Sony flagship speakers / Emm Labs were only playing music they made (Iso-Mike) and the room sounded terrific - don't get me wrong - but at the same time the music is completely unfamiliar and since I don't own the album I can't make a comparison to system B. Further if system B plays it back differently - does it mean system B is wrong - perhaps it is actually being more truthful to recording.

So ultimately - I am not saying it will work in any room - but it should work very very close to the same if general room size parameters are met and position is to manufacturer recommendation using similar gear.

[Ajani]

So ultimately - I am not saying it will work in any room - but it should work very very close to the same if general room size parameters are met and position is to manufacturer recommendation using similar gear.

That's quite a disclaimer: It is essentially why so many persons insist on auditioning gear in their own system... Unless you plan to buy (or already own) similar gear and have a similar room, then there are no guarantees that you will get similar performance if you buy the speakers you auditioned at the store or the show...