Signature Series................

[speakeroligist_38]

Hello people hope all is well. Has anybody here ever been able to do some rather extensive listening with the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's and the Signature S2's??? I am curious as to how much better, if any, the S2 is compared to the Studio 20 v.3's. I know the S2's come with real wood veneering but how much better is the sound???? There is a very significant price difference between the two so is the S2 really that much better sounding at doulbe the cost of the Studio 20 v.3's??? Please feel free to elaborate and by all means be as specific as you can. Am looking forward to hearing from you. Have a great day and thank you for your time.

[funnyhat]

I own the studio 20 v 2s, and I know there are differences between those and the v 3's, but I went to a paradigm dealer to hear the signatures, and maybe I don't have the most trained ears, but I didn't hear enough difference (between the studios and the signatures) to warrent the difference in cost. I heard a bit more detail and separation of voices, but bass response pretty much the same, and overall it wasn't a night and day type of situation. Just my two cents.

[SlumpBuster]

This topic has been discussed before. See here:Paradigm Signature S2 vs. Studio 20 v3

Good luck.

[Jimmy C]

Hello people hope all is well. Has anybody here ever been able to do some rather extensive listening with the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's and the Signature S2's??? I am curious as to how much better, if any, the S2 is compared to the Studio 20 v.3's. I know the S2's come with real wood veneering but how much better is the sound???? There is a very significant price difference between the two so is the S2 really that much better sounding at doulbe the cost of the Studio 20 v.3's??? Please feel free to elaborate and by all means be as specific as you can. Am looking forward to hearing from you. Have a great day and thank you for your time.

... "Is it worth 2.5x (or 10x) as much?" That's up to you! Were are at a time where a company like Wilson will offer upgrades for $5000 (whatever the actual price - I'm in the ballpark) so you can get your WATT/Puppy 6 up to 7 status. Considering Paradigm changed most aspects of the drivers (magnet, baskets, voice coil, and a phase plug), different x-over, as well as a lute-shaped cabinet (not to mention the perfect gloss finish), at least you can see where some of the money went.

So... is is worth it to me? Well, I don't own them, but I liked what I heard. The first thing I noticed was a huge picture painted around the speakers to the back wall. It was amazing considering the physical size of the S2s. At no time did any instrument come from the L or R speaker.

The other aspect I enjoyed was a completely unfatigueing demo. Between the S2 and S4, I have heard them with Rogue and A.R.C. tubes, along with Classe, Bryston, and Rotel solid state. I think they are best (no suprise... they are sensitive) with tubes. You will, at least, be rewarded with improvements as you move up the food chain.

The negatives? Well, chances are the average room one would "stick" these into ain't gonna be as big as my demo room... there goes some of the monster soundstage. Secondly, they probably won't be enjoyed with a $12,000 stack of high-end tubed electronics. I'm not implying you NEED mega-gear to make them sing, but...

Another problem was in the bass - at least there were sins of omission. The good news is the bass would be better in a real-world sized room.

I feel they retain a Paradigm house sound, and I can see them sounding similiar to the Studio 20s without optimum placement (i.e., not allowed to breathe as much), ran with lesser electronics, etc.

I'm not sure how good or bad the Sigs are with average/less-than-average software... we were listening to pretty good discs. That's one aspect of my Revels I like - they don't become too aggressive with shi-tay (this might get past the Auto-Don't-Curse sensor) CDs and LPs. They can certainly thin out and sound average, but at least they won't drive you outta the room.

The W.A.F. has to be high with that gloss finish!

Some positives, some negatives... I haven't heard a perfect speaker yet at any price range. I feel they should be demoed if their strong points meet your needs.

Lettuce know!

[Wireworm5]

As I mentioned once before I did a brief comparison between the S2 and Studio 20 when I purchased my Studio 20's. In the dealer show room I wasn't really impressed with how either of these speakers sounded. But I knew once I got them home in my room they would shine.
First off I didn't bring my own music and the salesman used an mp3 cd for demo. It was apparent to me that the S2 exhibited more detail than the 20's. But this detail also revealed simbilance that to my ears was irritating. Now on a good recording you probably wouldn't experience this, but on a bad recording the 20's will be more forgiving and easier to listen to. Another thing I noticed about the S2 is that it had this ability to throw the sound out at you giving it a 3D feel.
I bought the 20's because I was more concerned with having matching tweeters with my other studio speakers. But I can tell you I really wanted the S2's.

[kexodusc]

I wasn't impressed with the Signatures. At that price point there's just too many other better speakers that come to mind. They aren't enough of an improvement over the Studio's to warrant the cost increase IMO.

[speakeroligist_38]

Kex I was just curious for no real reason. I dont have that kind of money to get me a set of the S2's anyways. If I were to move up from my Studio 20 v.3's I would w/o a doubt go with the Taylo Reference Monitors that can be had from Tyler Acoustics for around $1600 a set when on sale. These speakers are just awesome and do everything the Studio 20 v.3's do only better. Ty's cabinetry skills are second to none. The Linbrook Sigs are even better. If you ever get the chance to demo them I assure you will not believe your ears.

[kexodusc]

Haven't heard those speakers, but I've heard several speakers with the same drivers in similar configurations with well executed crossovers. I'm comfortably saying I have a very good idea of how these would sound. Differences would be minimal. I can't imagine the Signatures competing here. My Studio's are nowhere close as good as the Seas drivers in Tyler Acoustic's speakers. That guy's got a nice little setup going there.

The transmission line design I'm working on will either use the Millenium or Excel drivers or something comparable from Vifa or Scan-speak. I like Seas drivers though. Their quality is 2nd to none. Problem with Seas is their premium drivers aren't much better (or any better in some cases) than their aluminum line, just easier to work with. Not sure if the extra cost is worth it.

[speakeroligist_38]

Yeah Kex Ty is a very nice guy and he knows how to build awesome speakers. The Taylo Reference monitors are very good indeed BUT I have yet to hear a stand mounted speaker sound better than the Linbrook Sigs with the MTM design. Maybe some day like when I win the lottery I can get me a set or two....LOL. Until then I am more than happy with my Studio v.3's. Hey, btw do you think the Paradigm Studio v.4's will be that much of an improvement????

[Pat D]

This topic has been discussed before. See here:Paradigm Signature S2 vs. Studio 20 v3

Good luck.

My high regard for the Signature series hasn't changed since the thread last year, though I have heard the S2 a few times since then. It's one of the nicest speakers I have ever heard.

[funnyhat]

I have just learned of Tyler and are quite intrigued, but are wondering if anyone knows anything about the Freedom line, i.e. they are in the same price range as the studio 20's, wondering how the two might compare.

[drseid]

This is one that Speakeroligist_38 and I disagree on to a certain extent... Both of us agree that the Freedom line is not Tyler's best effort soundwise and that their other lines are *far* superior... In my case, though, I would still take the Tylers over the Studio 20s and Speakeroligist_38 prefers the 20s to the Freedom F-2s. It is a closer call here soundwise in all honesty.

In my mind, the thing that puts the Tylers in front here is their tremendous build quality... 30 pounds+ a speaker built to order with real wood veneers and 1 inch MDF on all sides. That kind of build quality is almost unheard of at the Freedom's price point. The way Tyler does it is Ty uses the same cabinets used for the Taylo Reference Monitors for the Freedom F-2s. The sound, crossover components and drivers certainly aren't the same, but the cabinets are.

---Dave

[kexodusc]

This is one that Speakeroligist_38 and I disagree on to a certain extent... Both of us agree that the Freedom line is not Tyler's best effort soundwise and that their other lines are *far* superior... In my case, though, I would still take the Tylers over the Studio 20s and Speakeroligist_38 prefers the 20s to the Freedom F-2s. It is a closer call here soundwise in all honesty.

In my mind, the thing that puts the Tylers in front here is their tremendous build quality... 30 pounds+ a speaker built to order with real wood veneers and 1 inch MDF on all sides. That kind of build quality is almost unheard of at the Freedom's price point. The way Tyler does it is Ty uses the same cabinets used for the Taylo Reference Monitors for the Freedom F-2s. The sound, crossover components and drivers certainly aren't the same, but the cabinets are.

---Dave

The Studio 20's represented a very good value for a long time. They still do. That said, I think it's just too hard for them to compete with a lot of these smaller companies like Tyler, North Creek, Adire, etc. Sooner or later some people are going to prefer other brands. These guys are basically glorified DIY-ers, probably with years of experience either in the industry or with designing speakers. 1 man operations are easy enough to run if you keep things simple, low overhead, low margins, but a healthy bottome line and a chance to make a living doing what you like.
I've had an opportunity to hear a lot of speaker from small regional companies like these the past few years. I'm convinced this is the future of the speaker industry. Literally hundreds of small companies offering their take on what a loudspeaker should be.
Using quality drivers, sound building techniques, and simple design philosophy, all communicated to the market through the internet and word of mouth allows them to offer superb speakers at affordable prices.

I don't know how the F-2's sound at all. I owned the Studio 20's for a few years. The v.3's are a modest improvement on my v.2's, but today if I was a system on the same budget I had, they most likely wouldn't be my choice.
The nice thing about brands like Paradigm is they serve as a reference or starting point for a lot of people, helps you realize what you like and dislike in a speaker. The important thing to remember is that speakers really are measured subjectively.

[speakeroligist_38]

I have just learned of Tyler and are quite intrigued, but are wondering if anyone knows anything about the Freedom line, i.e. they are in the same price range as the studio 20's, wondering how the two might compare.

funnyhat I got the chance to audition the Freedom F-2's and I will admit I was impressed. The Vifa ring radiator tweeter is awesome indeed. Just kinda gave me that "wow" factor. You know very extended and well balanced yet not too forward or too harsh. The F-2's had good low frequency extension but was not quite as articulated and tightened up as I prefer. There was just something missing---oh I remember the midrange frequencies. Like what was there was very thin sounding and not well defined- kinda muffled if you will. As DrSEID pointed out the cabinets were just beautiful and very well constructed. However, I prefer the performance of the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's myself. Mainly, I prefer the well articulated sound of the 20's with respect to the low frequency extension. Hence, the 20's were much tighter and significantly more defined. Low frequency extension is very close between the two and the same holds true with the high end extension. But, the 20's walk all over the F-2's in the mid range category.The 20s present a midrange that is much fuller and with more detail thus not sounding dull. However, the Taylo Reference Monitors and especially the Linbrook Signature Monitors is a different story or shall I say different league altogether. Not sure how the Signature S2's would compare but from what I have read not too well would be my guess. IMHO, the Studio 20 v.3 's are a real bargain and I am content with owning them. If I ever get the chance to own a set of the Linbrook Sigs you can bet your bottom dollar I would do just that. Until then my Studio 20's will keep me smiling for years ( I hope) to come.

[Feanor]

In the $2-2.5k range for a "bookshelf" I won't by any ready-made speaker: I'd go DIY.



I'd go for Accuton driver which employ ceramic drivers noted for speed and distortion-free response; also they have unusually high power handling capability.

C23-6 tweeter
C92-6 woofer

Further, the C92-6 woofer has a very low Fs and high Qts making it a relatively excellent driver for closed boxes; alternatively it gives a -3dB of 32Hz in a 1.7cu.ft. vented box

I think I'd use a low high-mid crossover point, say 1600Hz; the low Fs, (350Hz), of the C23-6 plus its high power handling should make this quite feasible. I'd use 4th order crossovers and, of course, good quality capacitors and coils.

As a person with limited woodworking skills and equipment, I'd probably go for ready-made cabinets of suitable size from Parts Express or Madisound.

Just my thought