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  1. #1
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    Audio Note AN/K ?

    I've had wonderfull results using a Naim cd3.5, an Audio Innovation 300 and a pair of Snell E/III in an aprox. 30 m2 large living room. Unfortunately I now need something that will fit in a much smaller room, more like 10-12 m2, I'd say. I've heard good things about the Snell K, but also some say it's a little dull. Then Audio Note AN/K spring to mind, but my knowledge on these speakers is limited. As a matter of fact, I have an actual offer at hand: one pair of black AN/K's, further specified "K", and bought in '98 or '99. Now I've seen people praise different editions of this speaker, but nowhere have I found info about this specific model. Could anyone help me sort out this mess of models and specs? And oh - the price it was offered at is 500 Euros, which equals... around 600 US$ I think. Would you say that's a fair price?

    with best regards
    Erik
    Berlin

  2. #2
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindbjerg
    I've had wonderfull results using a Naim cd3.5, an Audio Innovation 300 and a pair of Snell E/III in an aprox. 30 m2 large living room. Unfortunately I now need something that will fit in a much smaller room, more like 10-12 m2, I'd say. I've heard good things about the Snell K, but also some say it's a little dull. Then Audio Note AN/K spring to mind, but my knowledge on these speakers is limited. As a matter of fact, I have an actual offer at hand: one pair of black AN/K's, further specified "K", and bought in '98 or '99. Now I've seen people praise different editions of this speaker, but nowhere have I found info about this specific model. Could anyone help me sort out this mess of models and specs? And oh - the price it was offered at is 500 Euros, which equals... around 600 US$ I think. Would you say that's a fair price?

    with best regards
    Erik
    Berlin
    bugger I had this whole thig typedout and my computer crashed. The Audio Notes are based off the original Snell designs not the subsequent models. Snell died after the original line and the company changed gears and cominig out with KII ---EII etc Peter was very displeased and stopped importing them...then set up Audio note with Sony's chief designer in the 70s. Kondo-San the main designer was displeased that Sony went for money over sound. Peter and Kondo broke apart There are TWO Audio Note companies - Kondo-san Audio Note Japan and Peter Qvortrup Audio Note UK and the rest of the world.

    The K started at 1kus (level 1) and is upgradable to $6k level 5. Currently the AN K starts at level 3 the AN K Spe...some outlets may have older ones around ---all are upgradeable. Spe stands for the grade of silver wiring and is the only change I believe from the lower model. http://www.triodeandco.com/Prod_Loudspeakers.html

    The only snippet from Hi-Fi Choice I could find were in May and September 1992:
    "Voices have a rare realism and coherence; the message simply cuts through the medium." Hi-Fi Choice, May 1992.

    "The sound is dynamically believable and more time coherent than most too, all of which makes a real contribution to breaking down the barriers between reproduction and reality." Hi-Fi Choice, September 1992.


    Hardly enough to base anything on. But they are basically smaller sounding speakers of their bigger brothers...they use the same drivers crossovers etc. The K is a sealed acoustic suspension design rather than a port. But unlike what some say is impossible this sealed speakers is 90db sensitive a very easy load on amplifiers more-so than the De Capo even, plays loud has more bass than probably any other standmount its size, and dynamics. Can't be done they say - well they is wrong because here it sits. Technical marvel in a non technical looking box http://www.triodeandco.com/Prod_Loudspeakers.html

    This is from my discussions with Peter Q:
    Audio Note speakers

    You may find this even funnier, they are actually 1940's cabinet shapes, read L. L. Beranek's Loudspeakers and you will find the calculation for all our speakers, cabinet shape, driver position etc.
    What you will not find is how we match the drivers to each other to maximise efficiency, dispersion and overall tonal balance.

    Asto the drivers, they are both from Vifa in Denmark, the tweeter is a highly modified version of the TD19, no ferro fluid, no damping and a special ferrite magnet, the woofer is also a Vifa which is a derivative of the original standard driver.

    What makes the K do what it does is three things,

    1.) Cabinet shape
    2.) The choice of complimentary sounding drivers, i. e. the drivers have the same sonic signature across the band, so when the sound of an instrument travels from bottom to top it retains its characteristics. This is an area most sadly neglected by speaker designers these days.
    3.) We set each crossover up under dynamic conditions using an in-house test set-up.

    AN-K/SPe which is a fully veneered speaker cabinet with birch plywood front and back and an MDF wrap.
    There will be a serial no. and model description on the back below the speaker terminals.
    These speaker cabinets were made in Denmark and were the best quality available until mid last year when our new cabinet factory in Austria came on stream.


    I still dislike recommending speakers unheard. No matter what I think of them others may not have the same view. Many people like speakers I dislike - so it stands to reason that they may not like the Audio Note's. I'm not a fan of what I perceive to be false detail speakers passing as "accurate." If someone says my speaker has bags of detail I wonder what they mean because i don't go to live events and say wow check out the detail on those cymbals...unless they mean a paint job. Detail especially if applied to highs is distrotion - and Audio Note even wrote a paper about what I have felt for years in their on the road to audio hell essay published in several issues of positive feedback magazine and on the net if you do asearch.

    If you liked the original K's you're probably going to like the Audio Note's. People supe up 70s roadsters why not speakers. The old cars didn't have the anti-pollution crap to slug the cars down - well Audio note speakers don't have cheap parts and cheap damping and cheap drivers to muddy the sound down.

    And no speaker is perfect of course.

  3. #3
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    yeah you better check out the level on that K.
    Back in 98/99, The Ks cheapest K would probably be 800 bux or something.
    So if you paying 600...then that is definately too much!

    I havent heard the speaker myself so I cannot give you too much a recommendation

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    Thanks a lot for that thorough answer. Now I have some more information: The seller says because it's a D-model, it's a level one. I'm a bit concerned whether that has any influence on the finish of the speaker. I heard they used vinyl wrap for a while with level 1, maybe all the time? I've sent him a picture I found on the internet, and he says they look just like those.

    Actually the seller works at the Dutch Audio Note import, but is a little low in information, it occurs. I think he's selling it for a customer.

    Concerning
    "AN-K/SPe which is a fully veneered speaker cabinet with birch plywood front and back and an MDF wrap"
    - Will this choice of materials influence the sound, hence making to D/level 1 model sound inferior, even with a cable upgrade?

    regards
    Erik

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    I dont think the stuff you slap on is a matter.
    However, I know the high quality Es have their cabinet built by hand, which ensures that the contact at the edges a big better than the other models. I dont know which level this starts from though. You better find out how much it costs to upgrade all the wiring.

    By the way. the new ANs have a full vinyl wrap and no grill or holes for the grills. The one you see on the website is the old one.

    I must say...ANs website really sux!
    The information is outdated, and I cant find half their products!

    Hey...Do I see a magazine under that speaker stand?
    Thought people would use more stable things such as a textbook if they wanted to give the stand more height.

  6. #6
    RGA
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    I really can't help you with K/D except to say that the AN E/D uses the same less expensive wood and MORE of the less expensive wood and look at the raves about that speaker. If the material was truly lousy then using MORE of it would create MORE box resonances and sound truly horrible. That is obviously NOT the case with the AN E, so I can't see why it would be with the K/D.

    I still hate recommending ANY loudspeaker without the person hearing them themselves and I'll tell you why. Anyone on a forum like myself is basically another reviewer. If you look through ALL the reviews in stereophile etc you're going to find somehting they love but you roll your eyes and think "uggh those were not that good." There is also expecting the world. I rave on about their greatness how can they possibly live up to the expectation? It's like someone telling you how great X movie is and you fgo to see it and it's good but not as great as you thought.

    When I went in I had never really even heard of the company other than that they made expensive tubes. SO expecting nothing they impressed me but it was when I got home and reflected back on the models I listened to that I realized they seemed to be the ones I had the least to to complain about - and that with a poor set-up to boot. Subsequent listening made me gravitate more to them than the others.

    But I caution you because they simply do not sound like slim line design speakers AT ALL. If you love a lot of slim line designs these are going to sound a bit odd - you'll either buy into it or you won't. I was looking for 4 years to buy somethingto replace my Wharfeldales...the Wharfedales are 1990 and beaten in the mid band and other various ways by lots of standmounts but they had a breathy dynamic fat sound that simply fills a room and I didn't want to get a speaker that was punchy but thin. The K gave me punchy but still a big sound.

    All i can suggest is read the reviews of the other AN speakers and basically the K's are going to sound pretty much identical except that there is LESS bass depth and the bass is punchier. In this they are the same as mmost brands. The B&W 600 series the 602S3 is the best in the series because it's bass while not as deep as the 603 is cleaner.

    The difference with the Audio Note's is that the bigger ones don't become less clean because they don't add cheap wood or more drivers...they add more good wood and don't add drivers.

    If there is any way to hear them first that is ALWAYS your best route. Recommendations from me or anyone should be viewed as recommendation to go listen to them - I think they're very valuable to have on a person's audition list because so many speakers of the slim line design variety pretty much sound the same. So we listen to a Paradigm Studio or a B&W 600 and we'll pick the one that has more dynamics or bass or a sweeter tweeter...what we didn't compare was the overal structure of the sound as a musical unit. Focussing on highs and lows? DO you do that when you listen to live music? No...I like a speaker that sounds like one cohesive unit. I chose to sacrifice the "wow factor" to get it - only because I have found the wow factor to only last for fleeting moment or for home theater. I like a speaker that gets the highs across without me thinking "check out that glorious detail"

    And let's be honest most speakers today are pretty competant - there are very rarely truly lousy speakers especially in the 1k and up realm. It depends what you want and what you think you can live with over the long haul. This one I can...you may want an electrostat or something else.

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    Thanks Rga - I really appreciate your effort here.
    The seller lives some 1000 km away, so it would be a lot of trouble auditioning. However I feel I could take the risk to buy them, provided the price is fair. Then I would have the opportunity to sell again without to much of loss, in case they don't fit my needs.

    About my impression of what I THINK these speakers might be about, RGA kind of hit the right note when writing: "I like a speaker that sounds like one cohesive unit. I chose to sacrifice the "wow factor" to get it" That's exactly how I felt when using the Audio Innovation and Snell combo. I feel both components contributed somewhat equal to this effect. The music had a feeling of "body" to it, that I was very surprised and satisfied by. It wasn't impressive, merely "right". That, of course, was with the quite big Snell E's in a largish room, allowing low frequency responce. But somehow it was basicly different from other bassheavy speakers I've heard. I wondered for quite a while, and still do: "how can this single 8" woofer seem to produce more bass than models with two tenners?" The emphasis was on "seem", as I had the suspision I was somehow deceived (Maybe I should note that this suspision was inducted purely by my sence of physics, not my sense of the music). However much I thought about it, the bass, indeed the whole balance of the sound, was just right. Maybe this has something to do with the "large baffle" design? (The Snell E/III is just slightly narrower, deeper and a few inches taller than the AN/E, though)

    Actually I have previously owned a pair of Quad 63's and really enjoyed their coherense. But they need more space than I could or can provide, and they ultimately lacked that warm room filling sound, that I experinced with the Snell's.

    As to the price of the K's, I found a review that said they were 1000$ in 2001, I think. So could possibly, as mr. "92135011" suggested, have been around 800 $ in '98. Has anyone got a clue as to what would be a fair price? I.e. how much should I expect to be able to resell these speakers for, in case my "intuition" about them prove wrong?

  8. #8
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindbjerg
    Thanks Rga - I really appreciate your effort here.
    The seller lives some 1000 km away, so it would be a lot of trouble auditioning. However I feel I could take the risk to buy them, provided the price is fair. Then I would have the opportunity to sell again without to much of loss, in case they don't fit my needs.

    About my impression of what I THINK these speakers might be about, RGA kind of hit the right note when writing: "I like a speaker that sounds like one cohesive unit. I chose to sacrifice the "wow factor" to get it" That's exactly how I felt when using the Audio Innovation and Snell combo. I feel both components contributed somewhat equal to this effect. The music had a feeling of "body" to it, that I was very surprised and satisfied by. It wasn't impressive, merely "right". That, of course, was with the quite big Snell E's in a largish room, allowing low frequency responce. But somehow it was basicly different from other bassheavy speakers I've heard. I wondered for quite a while, and still do: "how can this single 8" woofer seem to produce more bass than models with two tenners?" The emphasis was on "seem", as I had the suspision I was somehow deceived (Maybe I should note that this suspision was inducted purely by my sence of physics, not my sense of the music). However much I thought about it, the bass, indeed the whole balance of the sound, was just right. Maybe this has something to do with the "large baffle" design? (The Snell E/III is just slightly narrower, deeper and a few inches taller than the AN/E, though)

    Actually I have previously owned a pair of Quad 63's and really enjoyed their coherense. But they need more space than I could or can provide, and they ultimately lacked that warm room filling sound, that I experinced with the Snell's.

    As to the price of the K's, I found a review that said they were 1000$ in 2001, I think. So could possibly, as mr. "92135011" suggested, have been around 800 $ in '98. Has anyone got a clue as to what would be a fair price? I.e. how much should I expect to be able to resell these speakers for, in case my "intuition" about them prove wrong?
    The problem is Audio Note is not a big name company so how much you could sell them for is an unknown number. The way I would look at it is if this guy sell s YOU the speaker for $700.00 then it stands to reaso you too could sell it for close to that if not more. The basic AN sold for $999.00. I have never seen it sold for less than that. Plus it is upgradable. I believe the basic models used copper wiring instead of silver...and by the looks of the speaker it is using the foam surround. Foam is better than rubber but also requires re-foamig every 5-20 years(depending on where you live). The picture looks like they're in great shape.

    The AN speakers use the walll and the box to generate the bass. Most speakers use the woofer to create ALL the bass and then try and damp the crap out of the box as if to take the box OUT of the equation. Audio Note deliberately uses the box to reinforce the sound. The AN E woofer rolls off around 55hz the box itself brings it to 17hz along with the corner reinforcement.

    My concern about the $800.00US price is that I paid $1500.00 CDN for the AN K SPE brand new with full 5 year warranty. If you do a quick conversion that's something like $1100.00US. The K would have the better wood and all silver wiring and a choice of colour other than black. Cherry wood which I have is a darker redish wood and hey also had light beach. www.soundhounds.com in Victoria.BC has them.

    Again it's a tough call I can't make. I can''t help because I have not heard the D version nor have i heard the Snell III. The only thing I can say is that all 3 (K, J and E) have been around since the 70s. The E is their top of the line and has the bulk of the reviews which makes sense. I went by what I heard not by reviews. It took a lot to get me to go with the K's because I owned B&W and I knew that B&W has loads of reviews as does Reference 3a's MM De Capo and the K? Basically has my review and a snippet from 1992 - with a few reviews on this site for the Snell K(which are not really the same but since the AN k is based off the Snell K it's as close as you can get).

    The 805 or CDM 1NT are easier to sell, look better, have a bigger company backing them, have tons of reviews etc. But none of that matters if you're buying speakers to impress you over buying speakers to impress others or looking at re-sale. GOod speakers should not make you want to re-sell.

    Having said that in your position you have to look at re-sale because you can't listen first.

    However what you can do is listen to speakers like the B&W N805 and Paradigm Studio 40 etc and see if you like their type of sound. OR, listen to several headphones like the Sennheiser HD 600 --perhaps you'll have a similar ear to me or a very different one. Foir instance I don't like most speakers using metal tweeters - if you're like me you may gravitate to things I like otherwise not. Here's the chief review at enjoythemusic.com. Again a review of the J and the E not the K - but the K is basiclaly a punchier less bass weight version of these. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...udspeakers.htm

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    Ok, tomorrow I'll try to find out how much the cable upgrade would cost.

    Meanwhile I just found something that may be an interesting alternativ: A guy in Copenhagen has a pair of "AZ two" for sale. They retail for what equals 1000 $ and is offered at 500 $ used. The review seems quite good for this speaker, and it seems it might word in a small room, despite the fact, that it's a floorstanding speaker. Any thoughts?

  10. #10
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindbjerg
    Ok, tomorrow I'll try to find out how much the cable upgrade would cost.

    Meanwhile I just found something that may be an interesting alternativ: A guy in Copenhagen has a pair of "AZ two" for sale. They retail for what equals 1000 $ and is offered at 500 $ used. The review seems quite good for this speaker, and it seems it might word in a small room, despite the fact, that it's a floorstanding speaker. Any thoughts?
    I'm just as curious about them as you are...never heard them. Meant for corners good reviews, use the AN K drivers(supposedly upgrade versions), and are rated to 40hz. Though some reviews caution against real heavy bass at high levels...depends on what you listen to I suppose. They retail for $899.00US last I saw --- so practically half off and you don't need to spend money on a stand...That's why I would like to know about them.

    They also have smaller standmounts around $400.00new...I know nothing about them - think they're new.

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    I've just had my reply from the Audio Note dealer in Copenhagen (Audio Consult). Everyone is raving about the quality service you get there, even if asking about second hand gear. Here's what he says:

    "The new model is made of russian birch veneer and is more dynamic and calm (/tranquil / quiet ? I'm not sure about the exact translation).
    The old model is made of MDF and chipboard.
    You can upgrade to newest spec."

    More specifically I found out that the old MDF / chipboard models consists of

    AN/K-D (= "entry level")
    AN/K-L and (= level 1)
    AN/K-SPa (= level 2)

    Whereas the upper levels, starting with AN/K-SPe at level 3, feature real veneer.

    RGA: that means your speakers, and hence your reference of comparison, is level 3 - am I right? Or did you listen to the L version (or possibly the SPa?) ? It seems the upgrade to L spec. (better cable, though stille made of copper) is quite affordable.

    It also means that the D version is NOT level 1, as the dutch seller told me. It should theoretically be on par with the new "Zero"-line. And the beforementioned upgrade path applies to these speakers as well.

    RGA: How is your take on the design of the AZ range, constructionwise? Doesn't it get suspiciously close the the infamous "slimline" design, possibly lacking the "wide baffle" qualities? On the other hand the az is 93 dB against the K's 90 dB, which could possibly make it better at portraying microdynamics?

    In strict terms of value, i.e. in reference to the retail price, the second hand az two's seems like the better deal. They're around 150 $ cheaper, though the retail price is almost as high as for the K's. Also I wouldn't need a stand for them, as RGA pointed out. But ofcourse that wasn't considdered in the retail price reference either - i.e. a new K-d with stands would retail for more than the az's (but whether it sounds better...?).

    OK, I just asked Audioconsult what he would recommend for a small room, the K or the az. But I'd love some comments from the forum as well.

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    I dont think the L3 K is real wood veneer.
    You dont get that until you jump to level 4. Of course, once you jump up from level 3 to 4, you are paying more than twice the price for real wood.

    From what I understand, there is no difference except for a difference in look in the new Ks. I saw from some website that the update only affected the drives of the Es. If this is true, that would mean that there should not be any audible difference in the 2.

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Hahaha...You got love the confusion of a level system. It makes sense for an All Audio Note system because yo would move up the line making sure you're close to matching levels.

    The AN K Spe is Level 3 using Russian Birch with all interior silver wiring with silver 5 way binding postings. This is a line-up at this outlet in the U.S. http://www.jcaudio.com/product/AudioNote/speakers.html

    Models differe depending which country you're in etc.

    I can't speak to the floorstanding models other than to say the reviews in Positive feedback, soundstage etc were positive...trouble is I don't rely on reviews because many rave about stuff I don't like. The design of the AZ is some sort of quasi horn - they still appear to be wide baflle two ways(though not as wide as the AN E. The standmounts are still their top of the line. The AZ are for small medium rooms and my K is in my bedroom.

    Generally I prefer standmounts over floorstanders because they are generally faster and tighter int he midband. The review of the J and E comparison by Steven Rochlin notes this. Bass Can be added later via a sub.

    Peter has been working on a sub for 4 years now which will of course be powered by a SET amp.

    I'd have to hear them both...the AZ two adds more bass - but does it lose something in the midband? I'm betting yes or it would be considered higher than then K, J or E. The real question is does it give up much? You'd have to listen and decide.

    Peter no longer makes any K models below level 3 or Spe...So my feeling would be to dicker on the price of models below - the trouble is because they are all upgradeable and because they are all based of the same box design, buying the entry level model is the smartest move - because if you want to upgrade you can - and if you love them perhaps you won't think an upgrade is necessary. Personally I can't see how the SE is going to be $4k worth of improvement? Conversely, an owner of the K/D might not think making the jump to the Spe would be worth it. Without hearing them all it's tough to say.

    Would you like your basic Rolls Royce or the same Rolls totally fully loaded...same general car performance wise with added luxuries.

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    Wow

    I was sure the answer was going to be complicated, like depends on your preferences, and so on. But no - the answer from Audioconsult goes: "The K model, absolutely".

    Now I just have to make up my mind about whether to buy the ones in Holland or wait and see what shows up...

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    Neat!

    I just wrote Audio Note to ask if I could buy cables from them directly, and got an answer from the Legend, mr. Quortrup himself! What are the chances of getting a reply from, say, Ivor Tiefenbrun if writing Linn a question? One in a million? Neat

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    Peter is pretty active when it comes to questions and so on.
    He even has an account in AudioAsylum and answers questions that people ask. Although, I would guess that one of the reasons why people ask so many questions is because the website is made so badly -.-...no offense to Peter...but its time for him to update it with ALL his products.

  17. #17
    RGA
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    Yeah I don't think Peter's site is a real strength...something you make from Trelix or Front Page. I know he had a reviewer help him set it up...he has a lot of products and he introduces new ones often...his site seems up to date on some screens and years out of date on others. Of course he's been selling the same basic speakers for 2 decades...I suppose the idea is to listen and decide for yourself if they're worth what they're charging. It's confidence in your sound.Still it would be nice to have more info on the AZ and the AX models. The latter might make good rears in a H/T set-up.

  18. #18
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindbjerg
    I just wrote Audio Note to ask if I could buy cables from them directly, and got an answer from the Legend, mr. Quortrup himself! What are the chances of getting a reply from, say, Ivor Tiefenbrun if writing Linn a question? One in a million? Neat
    The thing is Peter is a wealthy man - and he was wealthy before he ever made this company. Speaking to Peter it is pretty obvious that Audio Note for him is a hobby. He makes cost no object products and moves down. It's still a business but as he points out often he doesn't advertise and could care less if anyone reviews his stuff because he doesn't want to own a BIG company...he claims he did and it wasn't any fun. He has over 35,000.00 LPs owns several of the competitors top designs just in case he can "FIX" them to make them sound good...LOL - arrogant may very well be or - he could just be right. He hates panel/planars and horns from what I can gather.

    This company seems more like a hobby to Peter -- which is why he goes onto forums - he has a passion for this stuff. Same for Joseph Lau of Antique Sound Labs who frequents head-fi forum and audio-asylum.

    Nothing against the conglomorates...but they're all about maximizing profit in a competitive home theater market looking for the lowest cost part that will function not because they want to but because they have 14 other speakers all making the same kinda sounding thing for less money. Audio Note's speakers are not tailored to those shoppers because they don't advertise in every issue of every magazine and place their product in shows like Friends - they don't build designs that sacrifice sound just to fit the IN style. It wasn't broke and it didn't need fixing.

    I've been doing homework over the last two days and had two listening sessions running 11 and 9 consecutive hours - ZERO listening fatigue at moderate levels. That sure is better than my ears bleeding after track 4 of acoustic guitar work with the Paradigm Monitor 5.

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    The deal doesn't seem to work out, I'm afraid. The guy hasn't replied for about two weeks now. It wasn't that cheap anyway, so I think I'll just keep looking for another pair of K's. Meanwhile I've changed from my Kans to Tukans, which are more cd-friendly. Then my dad gets to use the tube amp till I find an Audio Note solution.
    RGA: I think I know what you mean by slimline sound. I just went to a hifi shop today and listened to the new Naim entry level electronics. It was driving a pair of "Audio Physik" loudspeakers and it was exactly what I DON'T enjoy listening to. It sounded sooo fancy, with no "body" to the sound, no sensuality at all.
    Last edited by Vindbjerg; 04-20-2004 at 06:36 AM.

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    Hey, how much were they going to charge for the Spe upgrade??

  21. #21
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindbjerg
    The deal doesn't seem to work out, I'm afraid. The guy hasn't replied for about two weeks now. It wasn't that cheap anyway, so I think I'll just keep looking for another pair of K's. Meanwhile I've changed from my Kans to Tukans, which are not as cd-friendly. Then my dad gets to use the tube amp till I find an Audio Note solution.
    RGA: I think I know what you mean by slimline sound. I just went to a hifi shop today and listened to the new Naim entry level electronics. It was driving a pair of "Audio Physik" loudspeakers and it was exactly what I DON'T enjoy listening to. It sounded sooo fancy, with no "body" to the sound, no sensuality at all.
    They've been making the K since the early 90s maybe earlier so they should be around in one form or another.

    The slim line bothers me more now than it use to because when everything is designed laike that you get programmed to like it or at elast think that's the sound. Yes it all sounds tight andpunchy but it also sounds horribly strained and THIN as if you sucked the sound through a strainer or you're listening to something through a long tube.

    My analogy would be like looking through a telesscope - what you can see through it is VERY accurate compared to regular eyesight - but you lose ALL of the peripheral vision and the sense of reality. Or how about not seeing the forest for the trees. Many seem so concerned with imaging or soundstage or other microdynamics of sound they lost touch with big picture.

    You could also try picking up the original Snell K, J or E. as the box designs are virtually Identical. You could probably get one of them cheap. BUT, you MUST get the original and NOT the KII or KIII etc. The original K sold for around $400.00 in the 70s which would be the equivelant of about $1500-$2000.00 today. You can still upgrade those to Audio Note drivers and parts etc. My only concern is the box quality after ~30 years.

    Last year's AN K Spe is at soundhounds for $1500.00Cdn($1150US). Audio Note raised their pricing on the K Spe to $2250.00US. There new price list - http://www.triodeandco.com/Prod_Loudspeakers.html

    Probably a reason I like the 602s3 better than many in that price range is'tbecause it necessarily has better highs but because it can fill a room and not sound as nasal or listening through a funnel kind of sound. The speaker is more flawed of course but it has some grunt. I liked the B&W CM 2SE($1100.00CDN) more than the very slim and very small $1800.00 Totem Model One. THough the Totem was aand is a fine speaker - it simply cannot rock at all - and no offense to Totem but for $1800.00 I want it to be able to play a bass guitar properly at 90db.

  22. #22
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    Hey, RGA...

    ... I recently had a pair of Snell Js... they were not too good. Believe me, I wanted to like these, but the overall sound wasn't there. At $20 through a mutual friend, they were a good project (needed refoaming). Like the Bostons I had, the cabinets were in VERY good shape - that's what sold me... for the price, I'lll worry about sonics later. Another friend is now using them now in his new house and he's quite happy. Have you ever heard these? I wouldn't think you would be very impressed. But Hell... back in 1979 these were about $600 - a LOT of coin at that time. That's what I wanted when I bought my Boston A70s (and couldn't afford!)

    BTW - foam is not inherently "better" than rubber... actually, it's worse - mechanical breakdown will set in sooner. Foam does, however, allow a speaker to be more sensitive.

  23. #23
    RGA
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    Like I said not everyone is going to like the same speakers. Foam is better if the design requires it. Raising sensitivity is important for dynamic realism. I have never heard at any price a low sensitivity design that sounded good dynamically...case in point any and all electrostatic and planar designs are inferior and for my taste totally unacceptable loudspeakers. People swear by them and they are not fatiguing speakers so I respect them...just would not want them.

    Audio Note is a different design from the originals in that they are designed to be placed in corners or near walls which was not the case for the Original Snells - however - the box design is the same and the drivers while not made any longer are still paper coated and foam surrounds, Except the AN K which is a rubber surround.

    Foam does deteriorate faster but offers a 6-25 year life - it depends on the climate you live in. If you''re in a hot dry place perhaps they don't last as long.

    The idea behind the Audio Note speakers is to use little to no damping - the ferrofluid cooled drivers they get from Vifa and SEAS have had all ferro-fluid cooling removed because the coolent damps the sound.

    There are not a ton of reviews for the AN J either but several reviewers from Hi-fi Choice, Stereophile and the lead editor of enjoythemusic use Audio Note speakers as referenence products or in their own homes. I have not heard the AN J but I did hear the AN E/SEC which is again based of the original Snell E. It was the best system I have heard - not nearly the most expensive clocking in at a mere $50,000.00Cdn. I have heard systems with more bass but more bass and better bass is something else.

    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...udspeakers.htm
    http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475 Ahh this review explains the difference is a re-design of the rear ports from the original Snells.
    http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_print.asp?ID=1577

    I've decided to stick with the K because although the bass isn't as deep I like the depth and the punch The K isn't a port. I found the hi-fi choice review interesting because the J is meant for a corner as is the E - so one would have to experiment with that to be sure. Against a wall and not toed in would be a disaster area however(which may be what Hi-Fi Choice meant).
    This reviewer added the E to his collection -- considering all the other speakers he is reviewing are at LEAST 3 times the price I think his review is more than interesting. http://www.stereotimes.com/speak071701.shtm

    At the end of the day it is really simple: If you are generally unsatisfied with the slim line approach of Paradigm, Energy, PSB etc or just think there is something artificial and unnatural about their idea of music as I do - and or find them bright lacking dynamics, bass and presence then you have to start to look at stuff that has a different design approach. Perfect? No! Better? To me it's not even remotely close.

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    Oh, believe me...

    ...along with the Merlins I was talking about in another thread, I'm very curious about the Audio Note sound. What I'm envisioning is an "everything better" version of my old Boston A70s... if that IS the case, they'll be mine ;^) I remember mentioning that there is a dealer (probably very small) on Long Island, out in Westhampton. My friend and I never got there, but we are sure to check him out. Along with ANs, he has Von Schweikert, Spendor and a few other brands I've never heard. Soon...

    BTW - I asked before, but I guess you missed it (or I did)... whatever happened to the Boston A150s you saw? Did you hear them? Were they the original series, or latter? Mine were series II, and like the Snell Js I had, they didn't work for me.

    Just wondering...

  25. #25
    RGA
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    I was not too interested in the speakers - they were selling for $200.00Cdn and I thought I could turn them around for a profit. I already have two sets of front line speakers so I could not have kept them. They had nothing connected to them.

    Sounds like you live in a good area and can audition a good array of stuff.

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