Audio Note AN/K ?

[Vindbjerg]

I've had wonderfull results using a Naim cd3.5, an Audio Innovation 300 and a pair of Snell E/III in an aprox. 30 m2 large living room. Unfortunately I now need something that will fit in a much smaller room, more like 10-12 m2, I'd say. I've heard good things about the Snell K, but also some say it's a little dull. Then Audio Note AN/K spring to mind, but my knowledge on these speakers is limited. As a matter of fact, I have an actual offer at hand: one pair of black AN/K's, further specified "K", and bought in '98 or '99. Now I've seen people praise different editions of this speaker, but nowhere have I found info about this specific model. Could anyone help me sort out this mess of models and specs? And oh - the price it was offered at is 500 Euros, which equals... around 600 US$ I think. Would you say that's a fair price?

with best regards
Erik
Berlin

[RGA]

I've had wonderfull results using a Naim cd3.5, an Audio Innovation 300 and a pair of Snell E/III in an aprox. 30 m2 large living room. Unfortunately I now need something that will fit in a much smaller room, more like 10-12 m2, I'd say. I've heard good things about the Snell K, but also some say it's a little dull. Then Audio Note AN/K spring to mind, but my knowledge on these speakers is limited. As a matter of fact, I have an actual offer at hand: one pair of black AN/K's, further specified "K", and bought in '98 or '99. Now I've seen people praise different editions of this speaker, but nowhere have I found info about this specific model. Could anyone help me sort out this mess of models and specs? And oh - the price it was offered at is 500 Euros, which equals... around 600 US$ I think. Would you say that's a fair price?

with best regards
Erik
Berlin

bugger I had this whole thig typedout and my computer crashed. The Audio Notes are based off the original Snell designs not the subsequent models. Snell died after the original line and the company changed gears and cominig out with KII ---EII etc Peter was very displeased and stopped importing them...then set up Audio note with Sony's chief designer in the 70s. Kondo-San the main designer was displeased that Sony went for money over sound. Peter and Kondo broke apart There are TWO Audio Note companies - Kondo-san Audio Note Japan and Peter Qvortrup Audio Note UK and the rest of the world.

The K started at 1kus (level 1) and is upgradable to $6k level 5. Currently the AN K starts at level 3 the AN K Spe...some outlets may have older ones around ---all are upgradeable. Spe stands for the grade of silver wiring and is the only change I believe from the lower model. http://www.triodeandco.com/Prod_Loudspeakers.html

The only snippet from Hi-Fi Choice I could find were in May and September 1992:
"Voices have a rare realism and coherence; the message simply cuts through the medium." Hi-Fi Choice, May 1992.

"The sound is dynamically believable and more time coherent than most too, all of which makes a real contribution to breaking down the barriers between reproduction and reality." Hi-Fi Choice, September 1992.


Hardly enough to base anything on. But they are basically smaller sounding speakers of their bigger brothers...they use the same drivers crossovers etc. The K is a sealed acoustic suspension design rather than a port. But unlike what some say is impossible this sealed speakers is 90db sensitive a very easy load on amplifiers more-so than the De Capo even, plays loud has more bass than probably any other standmount its size, and dynamics. Can't be done they say - well they is wrong because here it sits. Technical marvel in a non technical looking box http://www.triodeandco.com/Prod_Loudspeakers.html

This is from my discussions with Peter Q:
Audio Note speakers

You may find this even funnier, they are actually 1940's cabinet shapes, read L. L. Beranek's Loudspeakers and you will find the calculation for all our speakers, cabinet shape, driver position etc.
What you will not find is how we match the drivers to each other to maximise efficiency, dispersion and overall tonal balance.

Asto the drivers, they are both from Vifa in Denmark, the tweeter is a highly modified version of the TD19, no ferro fluid, no damping and a special ferrite magnet, the woofer is also a Vifa which is a derivative of the original standard driver.

What makes the K do what it does is three things,

1.) Cabinet shape
2.) The choice of complimentary sounding drivers, i. e. the drivers have the same sonic signature across the band, so when the sound of an instrument travels from bottom to top it retains its characteristics. This is an area most sadly neglected by speaker designers these days.
3.) We set each crossover up under dynamic conditions using an in-house test set-up.

AN-K/SPe which is a fully veneered speaker cabinet with birch plywood front and back and an MDF wrap.
There will be a serial no. and model description on the back below the speaker terminals.
These speaker cabinets were made in Denmark and were the best quality available until mid last year when our new cabinet factory in Austria came on stream.


I still dislike recommending speakers unheard. No matter what I think of them others may not have the same view. Many people like speakers I dislike - so it stands to reason that they may not like the Audio Note's. I'm not a fan of what I perceive to be false detail speakers passing as "accurate." If someone says my speaker has bags of detail I wonder what they mean because i don't go to live events and say wow check out the detail on those cymbals...unless they mean a paint job. Detail especially if applied to highs is distrotion - and Audio Note even wrote a paper about what I have felt for years in their on the road to audio hell essay published in several issues of positive feedback magazine and on the net if you do asearch.

If you liked the original K's you're probably going to like the Audio Note's. People supe up 70s roadsters why not speakers. The old cars didn't have the anti-pollution crap to slug the cars down - well Audio note speakers don't have cheap parts and cheap damping and cheap drivers to muddy the sound down.

And no speaker is perfect of course.

[92135011]

yeah you better check out the level on that K.
Back in 98/99, The Ks cheapest K would probably be 800 bux or something.
So if you paying 600...then that is definately too much!

I havent heard the speaker myself so I cannot give you too much a recommendation

[Vindbjerg]

Thanks a lot for that thorough answer. Now I have some more information: The seller says because it's a D-model, it's a level one. I'm a bit concerned whether that has any influence on the finish of the speaker. I heard they used vinyl wrap for a while with level 1, maybe all the time? I've sent him a picture I found on the internet, and he says they look just like those.

Actually the seller works at the Dutch Audio Note import, but is a little low in information, it occurs. I think he's selling it for a customer.

Concerning
"AN-K/SPe which is a fully veneered speaker cabinet with birch plywood front and back and an MDF wrap"
- Will this choice of materials influence the sound, hence making to D/level 1 model sound inferior, even with a cable upgrade?

regards
Erik

[92135011]

I dont think the stuff you slap on is a matter.
However, I know the high quality Es have their cabinet built by hand, which ensures that the contact at the edges a big better than the other models. I dont know which level this starts from though. You better find out how much it costs to upgrade all the wiring.

By the way. the new ANs have a full vinyl wrap and no grill or holes for the grills. The one you see on the website is the old one.

I must say...ANs website really sux!
The information is outdated, and I cant find half their products!

Hey...Do I see a magazine under that speaker stand?
Thought people would use more stable things such as a textbook if they wanted to give the stand more height.

[RGA]

I really can't help you with K/D except to say that the AN E/D uses the same less expensive wood and MORE of the less expensive wood and look at the raves about that speaker. If the material was truly lousy then using MORE of it would create MORE box resonances and sound truly horrible. That is obviously NOT the case with the AN E, so I can't see why it would be with the K/D.

I still hate recommending ANY loudspeaker without the person hearing them themselves and I'll tell you why. Anyone on a forum like myself is basically another reviewer. If you look through ALL the reviews in stereophile etc you're going to find somehting they love but you roll your eyes and think "uggh those were not that good." There is also expecting the world. I rave on about their greatness how can they possibly live up to the expectation? It's like someone telling you how great X movie is and you fgo to see it and it's good but not as great as you thought.

When I went in I had never really even heard of the company other than that they made expensive tubes. SO expecting nothing they impressed me but it was when I got home and reflected back on the models I listened to that I realized they seemed to be the ones I had the least to to complain about - and that with a poor set-up to boot. Subsequent listening made me gravitate more to them than the others.

But I caution you because they simply do not sound like slim line design speakers AT ALL. If you love a lot of slim line designs these are going to sound a bit odd - you'll either buy into it or you won't. I was looking for 4 years to buy somethingto replace my Wharfeldales...the Wharfedales are 1990 and beaten in the mid band and other various ways by lots of standmounts but they had a breathy dynamic fat sound that simply fills a room and I didn't want to get a speaker that was punchy but thin. The K gave me punchy but still a big sound.

All i can suggest is read the reviews of the other AN speakers and basically the K's are going to sound pretty much identical except that there is LESS bass depth and the bass is punchier. In this they are the same as mmost brands. The B&W 600 series the 602S3 is the best in the series because it's bass while not as deep as the 603 is cleaner.

The difference with the Audio Note's is that the bigger ones don't become less clean because they don't add cheap wood or more drivers...they add more good wood and don't add drivers.

If there is any way to hear them first that is ALWAYS your best route. Recommendations from me or anyone should be viewed as recommendation to go listen to them - I think they're very valuable to have on a person's audition list because so many speakers of the slim line design variety pretty much sound the same. So we listen to a Paradigm Studio or a B&W 600 and we'll pick the one that has more dynamics or bass or a sweeter tweeter...what we didn't compare was the overal structure of the sound as a musical unit. Focussing on highs and lows? DO you do that when you listen to live music? No...I like a speaker that sounds like one cohesive unit. I chose to sacrifice the "wow factor" to get it - only because I have found the wow factor to only last for fleeting moment or for home theater. I like a speaker that gets the highs across without me thinking "check out that glorious detail"

And let's be honest most speakers today are pretty competant - there are very rarely truly lousy speakers especially in the 1k and up realm. It depends what you want and what you think you can live with over the long haul. This one I can...you may want an electrostat or something else.

[RGA]

I've had wonderfull results using a Naim cd3.5, an Audio Innovation 300 and a pair of Snell E/III in an aprox. 30 m2 large living room. Unfortunately I now need something that will fit in a much smaller room, more like 10-12 m2, I'd say. I've heard good things about the Snell K, but also some say it's a little dull. Then Audio Note AN/K spring to mind, but my knowledge on these speakers is limited. As a matter of fact, I have an actual offer at hand: one pair of black AN/K's, further specified "K", and bought in '98 or '99. Now I've seen people praise different editions of this speaker, but nowhere have I found info about this specific model. Could anyone help me sort out this mess of models and specs? And oh - the price it was offered at is 500 Euros, which equals... around 600 US$ I think. Would you say that's a fair price?

with best regards
Erik
Berlin

Be careful on the used prices here as well. Just because the new model goes for more you need to look at what the original model went for in its year. The basic AN/K/B back in 1996(according to my one and only issue of Hi-fi Choice) sold for 500 British Pounds new, the SP went for 700 - both were a bit different then than now as to wiring and crossovers. My old Arcam Delta 290 sold there then for 480GBP and was selling here for $1400.00Cdn ~$950US.

So buying a used K/B for 500.00 Euros would not be a very good deal unless these speakers are magically free from depreciation - and that is not likely. The thing that does help the re-sale though is by continually selling year in and year out the same speaker and increasing and increasing the price - people will look to the new model and see the price of the used model and think it's a bargoon.

This helps the seller a bit to off-set the lack of name recognition - if the name gets more household - you might even be able to make money on em. Interesting they would be selling it for 500 Euros - probably what he paid 10 years ago - of course money had more buying power then than now but still.

[benil]

Be careful on the used prices here as well. Just because the new model goes for more you need to look at what the original model went for in its year. The basic AN/K/B back in 1996(according to my one and only issue of Hi-fi Choice) sold for 500 British Pounds new, the SP went for 700 - both were a bit different then than now as to wiring and crossovers. My old Arcam Delta 290 sold there then for 480GBP and was selling here for $1400.00Cdn ~$950US.

So buying a used K/B for 500.00 Euros would not be a very good deal unless these speakers are magically free from depreciation - and that is not likely. The thing that does help the re-sale though is by continually selling year in and year out the same speaker and increasing and increasing the price - people will look to the new model and see the price of the used model and think it's a bargoon.

This helps the seller a bit to off-set the lack of name recognition - if the name gets more household - you might even be able to make money on em. Interesting they would be selling it for 500 Euros - probably what he paid 10 years ago - of course money had more buying power then than now but still.

interesting...will these "lower price-tag" old models be traceable by their serial numbers?
since i''m getting used stuff, i might end up not getting a bargain after all?

on the other hand, rochlin's scorecard for the lexus and an-j/SPx enjoythemusic review seems to imply that the older chipboard model even sounded better than the AN-E except for the "sub-bass" category. of course, that an-j may not be as old as the 500euro models.

is it also possible that audionote has already made a far bigger name and reputation now vs. 10 years ago allowing them to demand higher prices on essentially the same products?

cheers!

[RGA]

interesting...will these "lower price-tag" old models be traceable by their serial numbers?
since i''m getting used stuff, i might end up not getting a bargain after all?

on the other hand, rochlin's scorecard for the lexus and an-j/SPx enjoythemusic review seems to imply that the older chipboard model even sounded better than the AN-E except for the "sub-bass" category. of course, that an-j may not be as old as the 500euro models.

is it also possible that audionote has already made a far bigger name and reputation now vs. 10 years ago allowing them to demand higher prices on essentially the same products?

cheers!

My impression from the Hi-fi Choice edition is tht the lower levels all used copper - they used to sell AN D cables which were Rec'd in theissue for what that's worth. The J/B was 999 GBP circa 1996 then there was an SP(not listed in the issue) and likely Rochlin's SPx.

To be fair Audio Note had levels from Zero to Five. Hi-fi HCoice only listed the first 2 of each - and today's start in level 2-3 depending which dealer. The SPe is level 3. The K jumps from that to level 5 in the SE and stops. Presumably Silver Sec is level 6+

Basically the wood quality is better than Rocklin's model. His SPx and the new SPx are not the same - and you're right considering all accounts his older model wasn't outclassed at all. I'm of the opinion, and it means little since I've not compared 2 levels of a K or J etc that if the box and drivers are the same the differences will be relatively subtle - granted the crossover and cap improvements. Is the better grade of silver critical ? possibly but for that to make sense the entire chain would need to be silver and compared to a system with the entire chain in copper - mixing and matching cables would be impossible to test.

When I asked soundhounds about the AN E D versus the AN J SPe they immediately said the J was better - so maybe the crossover wiring and wood quality does matter if they're being honest.

I'd probably have to ask Q what all the differences are. I know the NEW models versus last years(mine) are now having their boxes built in a different country. Denmark or something - and have way more finishing options.

Basically they're all tweaked up hot-rodded version of a good platform - most of it can all be upgraded later.

Well I'm heading out Friday and we'll see if it's worth it. Rochlin's assessment of the bass is an interesting one - the NEW J speaker is rated by Audio Note at 25hz -6db which should be almost no different to the human ear to the E at 18hz -6db. But Hi-fi Choice measured the J at 20hz -3db which is better than the vast majority of subwoofers. And Hi-Fi Choice does measure at a cosniderable distance - so perhaps Q changed the port or something. Placement is critical as I have found with the K/SPe and my speaker should be easiest to place.

I also find it interesting that Peter Q says the speaker SHOULD be placed in corners yet Hi-Fi Choice and some others feel they should be free-standing - so that gives the impression they're actually easy-going with placement. It's odd because the K always sound timbrally correct no matter where they go but for imaging and ultimate bass depth corners vs free standing and distance from walls all play a bigger role - and have some trade-offs.

[92135011]

if you are going to test the E anyways, why not try out the new high efficiency woofer while you are at it. See if there is a difference between the high efficiency and normal efficiency in sound, seeing the crossovers are slightly different and drivers are different.

[benil]

here are pics of the AN-J/SPe pair being offered to me.

can't really tell if they're still any good from these...i'm nevertheless posting them.
i also asked the owner if he could send some pics with the grill off. i'll post them
just in case he still sends more.

thanks guys!

an-j1


an-j2