pioneer hpm-100's are they that great? help

I am a new member, I have 3 good receivers. A sansui g-9700, a kenwood kr-9600 and a kenwood kr-9050. I have 3 pairs sansui sp-x9000 speakers and 2 pair of 300 and 350 watt kenwoods. I have read that the sansui's do not have very good sound, they kick the kenwoods butt! I have been reading alot about pioneer's hpm-100 -200 watters. Are they really that good of speaker? I also understand you can throw anything at them. Do they make anything new at a good price that will compete with these vintage speakers using with my receivers? I am 47 and still like it LOUD,:idea: :idea: :idea: THANKS FOR ANY INFO THAT WILL HELP ME!

I had a pair of HPM's, I can't remember which model, they had a 10" woofer, a midrange, tweeter and super tweet. They also had controls on the back for mids and highs. If you can get them cheap and only use them with a lower power receiver you are probably alright. I blew the woofers out of mine by over powering them with a large Kenwood integrated, so, no, you can't throw anything at them.. I'd say you could probably find better speakers today for not a lot of money. The HPM's are not collectors items or "classics".

Kenwood had some decent stuff occasionally, tuners or amps, but not speakers. Some of the old vintage Infinity were pretty good, the RS series when they used IMG woofers, the black ones, or the Kappa series. The larger Kappa's need some serious current though. These will take some power to get loud but will sound good.

Depending on price, there are many today for you to listen to. The Insignia and Athena get good press here for cheap. Paradigm and entry B&W for a step up. If you aren't a critical listener and want really loud, give Klipsch a listen.

in addition to the sound advise from Mr Peabody,
i've heard HPM-100's sound awful and i've heard them sound wonderful. the difference was in room tuning and eq. without the latter the HPM-100's are not going to sound good.

There is a cult following that surround the HPM series speakers, many people believe that these are just the best speakers for Rock and Pop. There is around 50 people who own the HPM 100's and other HPM series speakers at a forum called ( Audiokarma.org ). These guys could give you a detailed description of what the strenght and weakness is of the whole HPM line.
Good Luck!

Having owned these speakers for a few years now, I would have to say, if you listen
to Rock and or want an extremely detailed sound, you can't go wrong. These were
designed by the same guy who designed JBL's monitors in the 70's. JBL pissed him
off, so off to pioneer he went. The power rating has been a non-issue for me. I've
driven them with a few hafler amps of over 300wpc. I recently re-capped the crossovers,
and they sound like carpet was pulled off the grills, it was a big shock in sound. These
speakers are all around performers, at home with Mozart, priest you name it. They
also more than hold there own as HT main speakers, you don't even need a sub. Mine
has never been set above 20hz. Of course they were built to rival JBL's 4312/l100 line
up, some say they do the job, some would never say it, all I know if you want a Rock
speaker that plays extremely loud, with no fall off in sound, can handle gobs of power
and can be had for about $200-$500, there a no brainer. Be advised, they are VERY
heavy for a bookshelve speaker, about 60LBS each, so plan your shipping carefully.
Good luck, if you have any questions, let me know.

Likeitloud, did you read my earlier post? Does it sound like I had HPM's? If yours handled Haflers, I'm wondering which model I had. I'm sure they were HPM's. The Kenwood amp I had was a beast, I never ran it into distortion, but I did blow the cones right off the basket. Well, actually the cracked all apart. There could have maybe been some hidden damage when I got them but they sounded alright. Of course, this has been many years and nights of sleep ago, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Likeitloud, did you read my earlier post? Does it sound like I had HPM's? If yours handled Haflers, I'm wondering which model I had. I'm sure they were HPM's. The Kenwood amp I had was a beast, I never ran it into distortion, but I did blow the cones right off the basket. Well, actually the cracked all apart. There could have maybe been some hidden damage when I got them but they sounded alright. Of course, this has been many years and nights of sleep ago, too.

---

Actually, I have heard of the midrange or tweeter failing, I can't imagine what it would
take for that to happen, other than distortion or clipping. As with all speakers, we can't,
go to crazy, with speakers 25 yrs old, it goes without saying. I know my pair, have been
very durable, and sound excellent, Ive had a few current/new sets borrowed from
friends, and these always go back on duty, there's nothing out there under $500, that
compare, IMO, I listen to Rock/Metal, and these are a perfect fit.

The mids and highs hung in there, it was the woofers that blew. Was the 100 a 10" with controls and super tweet? Actually, I put a set of Proton 10" car subs in the cabinets and used them in the basement for a long time and eventually gave them to a friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

The mids and highs hung in there, it was the woofers that blew. Was the 100 a 10" with controls and super tweet? Actually, I put a set of Proton 10" car subs in the cabinets and used them in the basement for a long time and eventually gave them to a friend.

---

They have a 12" driver and are 4 way speakers, with a ribbon supertweeter, the woofer
is made of a kind of carbon fiber material, not paper, and there's no foam. I have
heard the voice coil is the weak link, but have'nt had a problem, yet. They do have
mid/high attenuators much like JBL monitors of the day.

Hi jevuichard; around 1983, my friend wanted some speakers so we went into a store. We A/B/C/D/ a bunch of floorstanding stuff there, but the winners PERIOD were the HMP-100s. How we got those things back to his place, I cannot remember. They are particular to the type of equipment run on them but these speakers will sing and dance any kind of music with audio amplifiers etc, that seem to be the most compliant to their sound. They played wonderfully on a Pioneer SA-7700 int. amp.@60 watts per channel. They surprisngly worked well with a 1980s low power Scott receiver. My friend still has them, but uses them in a secondary house on his property. Note that the woofers have paper surrounds which seem to last forever over many of the rubber surround types that wilt away. IMHO one of the best floorstanding speakers that were ever made for the money. Heavy, they are, and heavy they play.............

Mine definitely had 10's. I bet maybe I had a model down from the 100's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Mine definitely had 10's. I bet maybe I had a model down from the 100's.

---

You had HPM 60's, 3 way, 10" woofer, I've heard a pair, a kick ass speaker from back
in the day!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by likeitloud

You had HPM 60's, 3 way, 10" woofer, I've heard a pair, a kick ass speaker from back
in the day!

---

The HPM-40's were the only 3-way driver configuration in the HPM line up folks. As I type this I am sitting right in front of my own pair of HPM-60's and they are originally configured as 4-way's ONLY. The HPM-60's are rated for 60 watts and maximum input is 120 watts, yeah they blow baby. I have never heard these played on anything with more power then my 40 watt NAD receiver, so I am sure if I really powered these babies I would be jamming big time for a small bedroom. I have a different pair of midrange in my pair since I bought them with one blown, soon to replace with another to have the original design to listen to. I love these speakers for the heavy bass, and everyone is correct I never use a sub for movies because these babies play pretty darn low and this seems more then enough for my small listening space. The 3-way picture here is not the HPM-60's - just to keep things correct - not to brag or anything of that nature. Thanks to all of you for this cool thread - and exactly where do we draw the line on what year something turns vintage ? I have these HPM's which were made from 1977-1979 years only, and the oldest speakers I have recently seen in retail thrift stores are running as old as 1969-1970. I thought I had vintage pioneer's I may be wrong, when we buy older cars I though 22 years made it official in some states as historic plate material. Please comment here on that topic - would love to hear everyone speak on that for a while. Oh by the way when that dude left JBL to make the Pioneer HPM's he must of been very pissed off to have made such a nice sounding speaker that people still love after 30 years - for sure. I would love to listen to newer equivalent speakers if I knew what to go an find on the market, but I am so satisfied with HPM sound, only on rock and heavy material. I listen to other material on true British bookshelf's for a true jazz sound or classical image.

Later Dudes - thanks for letting this audio geek ramble on like a bass drum.

SuperDougieFreshNess - San Diego,CA - Heaven on Earth - Espechilly in March !

:cornut:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Mine definitely had 10's. I bet maybe I had a model down from the 100's.

---

Hi everyone, Just to help clear things up with Pioneer HPM "1970's" speakers. This original series had several priced models with a higher end evolving from the HPM-150's into what was "Pioneers superior Pro division TAD (Technical Audio Devices)."
http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/HPM150/HPM150.html

HPM-40's are 3 ways with what looks like no midrange, just the tweeter and super tweeter and 10" woofer--strange but possible that there is not a regular tweeter and just a small midrange. This would need some clarification by others here within the forum.
http://members.aol.com/KDresch/hpm-40.html

HPM-60's are 4-ways with the addition of a midrange driver also 10" woofers
HPM-100's are 4-ways with 12" bass woofers.
http://chambana.craigslist.org/ele/317520572.html

HPM-150's are also 4-way speakers with different and even larger woofers probably a 15" and the super tweeter is very different.
http://www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/hpm0150.html

The only difference between the 60's and the 100's was the woofer/cabinet size's and the power they could handle.

And yes I love my HPM-60's
Hope this info helps.
SuperDougieFreshNess - San Diego,CA :cornut:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superdougiefreshness

Hi everyone, Just to help clear things up with Pioneer HPM "1970's" speakers. This original series had several priced models with a higher end evolving from the HPM-150's into what was "Pioneers superior Pro division TAD (Technical Audio Devices)."
http://www.thevintageknob.org/PIONEER/HPM150/HPM150.html

HPM-40's are 3 ways with what looks like no midrange, just the tweeter and super tweeter and 10" woofer--strange but possible that there is not a regular tweeter and just a small midrange. This would need some clarification by others here within the forum.
http://members.aol.com/KDresch/hpm-40.html

HPM-60's are 4-ways with the addition of a midrange driver also 10" woofers
HPM-100's are 4-ways with 12" bass woofers.
http://chambana.craigslist.org/ele/317520572.html

HPM-150's are also 4-way speakers with different and even larger woofers probably a 15" and the super tweeter is very different.
http://www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/hpm0150.html

The only difference between the 60's and the 100's was the woofer/cabinet size's and the power they could handle.

And yes I love my HPM-60's
Hope this info helps.
SuperDougieFreshNess - San Diego,CA :cornut:

---

My Bad, you have it right, hell, my surrounds are HPM 40's, to much Bud and Jack the
other night, Thanks for the run down, now, gotta go Crank some tunes.

Thanks for the info. I definitely had the 60's. If I had known they were going to be sought after some day I might have treated them better and hung on to them. I over powered them. As far as I know, the guy I gave them to is still using them with a small Kenwood receiver. They don't have the same woofers though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Thanks for the info. I definitely had the 60's. If I had known they were going to be sought after some day I might have treated them better and hung on to them. I over powered them. As far as I know, the guy I gave them to is still using them with a small Kenwood receiver. They don't have the same woofers though.

---

Hi Peabody,
Have your friend look into and maybe contact Oaktree for the correct woofers for the HPM-60's, he may be impressed with the original old stock sound they are so sought after for. And can you let me know what new drivers he is using for the woofers he has replaced and the model #s ? I would like to look at the stats for down the road with my pair as well.
http://www.oaktreeent.com :confused:
Thanks
SuperDougieFreshNess

I know this will make you cringe. I blew the woofers out way back in the late 80's or early 90's. I worked at an audio store then. We got a good buy on some Proton 10" car subs which had aluminum baskets and a grill over the front. I replaced the HPM's with a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's, so I just was going to replace the woofer with something cheap, but decent, and use them in my basement on a second system. I chose the Proton's because of the power handling, price, and I thought with the grill on front the HPM's would look cool without a grill. The sound of the HPM's were certainly not the same but not as bad as you'd think either. The friend I gave them to was a good friend who helped me with a lot of stuff so I gave them to him. I felt sorry for him because he had a cheap pair of Kenwood's which blew and he replaced them with whatever he could find at Radio Shack. He was happy to get the HPM's but I doubt if he'd ever spend money on the real woofers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I know this will make you cringe. I blew the woofers out way back in the late 80's or early 90's. I worked at an audio store then. We got a good buy on some Proton 10" car subs which had aluminum baskets and a grill over the front. I The sound of the HPM's were certainly not the same but not as bad as you'd think either.

---

I have a question about damping the cabinets a bit or much more on my HPM-60's. Sometimes when I play them a little harder the cabinet sounds hollow, what is the most effective way of dealing with this since this is a ported design ?
:cornut:
Thanks
SDFN "short for" SUPDOUGFRSHNESS

Though it's ported you can still add some insulation material inside the cabinet. If the sound is reflections caused inside the cabinet this should help. If you are hearing noises caused by the port itself, I'm not sure if there is anything that will help that. The cabinets are fairly heavy but you could also try additional internal bracing to see if that helps.

I looked at a pair of HPM 150's at the Goodwill the other day...

The thing I saw is how the carbon-laminate stuff the cones are made from can fail over time. They became brittle and failed, they almost fell apart when I flexed them. That is probably why the earlier poster claimed he "blew" his up.

Otherwise, I wanted to bring them home with me.

jocko

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jocko_nc

I looked at a pair of HPM 150's at the Goodwill the other day...

The thing I saw is how the carbon-laminate stuff the cones are made from can fail over time. They became brittle and failed, they almost fell apart when I flexed them. That is probably why the earlier poster claimed he "blew" his up.

Otherwise, I wanted to bring them home with me.

jocko

---

Dude,
I have never seen the HPM-150's in person just pictures and they are more space age kind of looking. Did ya give um a try ? Even blown foams can play. I think they were rated at max 400 watts so I am sure most people who had these never powered them correctly and just blow them to hell with distortion as they clipped their 100 watt receivers. You might have picked them up at about $50 bucks and just re-foamed any drivers that had failed. The top had very odd looking super tweeter if I am not mistaken. What price were they selling them for at the thrift store if I could ask? Just the low end bass drivers alone where probably running in the same pressure levels that todays modest subs perform and that was easy for those bad boys. I am pretty sure that all the larger drivers in the pair of HPM-150's you saw were different in that they had real rubber foam around the driver instead of the paper that looks tar coated like my HPM-60's. For that reason the failed foams might have been made out of entirely different materials than my pair of 60's, you see my pair of speakers have no rot at all and they are just as old "30 years now" as the pair in the thrift store you saw. Dude you should of bought them just for the parts like the crossovers and such I know that Oaktree would of loved to have had the parts to sell by piece to others owners. Thanks for letting us all know that the bargains are still out there for the DIY fixer uppers like myself.

Dude check out the rack of Pioneer Silver Face 70's stuff and look through the pictures of the HPM-150's this guy had on e-bay, very cool indeed..........back in the day my friend...........back in the day..........!!!

LINK : http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-HPM-150-...em#PicturePack

http://www.arooga.com/members/100000...566644(86).JPG

Later :cornut:
SuprDugiFrshNis - Saanday Eggo,
"Arnold would say" Calli Fornia dudes - Heaven on Earth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jevuichard

I am a new member, I have 3 good receivers. A sansui g-9700, a kenwood kr-9600 and a kenwood kr-9050. I have 3 pairs sansui sp-x9000 speakers and 2 pair of 300 and 350 watt kenwoods. I have read that the sansui's do not have very good sound, they kick the kenwoods butt! I have been reading alot about pioneer's hpm-100 -200 watters. Are they really that good of speaker? I also understand you can throw anything at them. Do they make anything new at a good price that will compete with these vintage speakers using with my receivers? I am 47 and still like it LOUD,:idea: :idea: :idea: THANKS FOR ANY INFO THAT WILL HELP ME!

---

ive got a set an i wouldnt trade them for any other speaker! yes, they can take a certain amount of abuse, ive had mine as loud as 150 watts with no distortation or clipping!! a higher wattage amp will "open" them up, they seem to just absorb the power and love it !! im now working on tryin to get a set of 1500's hpm's but in order to run these the high way you need to have a high powered amp not a low powered one as clipping and fring them will occur

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2325fan

ive had mine as loud as 150 watts

---

??????:confused5:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2325fan

ive got a set an i wouldnt trade them for any other speaker! yes, they can take a certain amount of abuse, ive had mine as loud as 150 watts with no distortation or clipping!! a higher wattage amp will "open" them up, they seem to just absorb the power and love it !! im now working on tryin to get a set of 1500's hpm's but in order to run these the high way you need to have a high powered amp not a low powered one as clipping and fring them will occur

---

You may have the speakers run by an amp with 150wpc, but you DID NOT crank a
steady 150watts into them, first you'd be deaf, second the speakers would be toast.

The problem was that the CONES were gone, not just the surrounds. The cones are formed of some graphite material that is no doubt stiffer than paper yet extremely light. However, this material degraded over time to the point where it literally fell apart. Surrounds are easy to fix. Where to get these particular graphite cones? Woofers and mids, that is a lot of trouble, IMO.

They were $20.00 each, I think. Someone bought them.

jocko

I've had no issues with the drivers, other than blowing a mid, do to a hook up mistake.
Pioneer advised coating the drivers, minus the woofer, with clear sealant to reinforce
the cone, which I did when they were re-capped, have had no issues since. The woofer
has been very durable, and look brand new, the surrounds BTW are rubber. Again, a
killer vintage speaker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by likeitloud

The woofer
has been very durable, and look brand new, the surrounds BTW are rubber. Again, a
killer vintage speaker.

---

BTW, the surrounds on every HPM-100 I have ever seen or owned are NOT rubber. They are made of a doped, accordion pleated paper.:)

Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blue Meanie

BTW, the surrounds on every HPM-100 I have ever seen or owned are NOT rubber. They are made of a doped, accordion pleated paper.:)

Jeff

---

Yeah......You got that right Blue Meanie, I have the similar HPM-60's and the drivers are surrounded by a pleated paper with what looks like a thick black tar substance. I don't think I have to worry about the surrounds ever rotting away. Mine are in top condition and these pioneer HPM-60's are thirty years old with the original drivers still playing.

I can't believe this thread gets so much attention for such a short run and older set of speakers........? Anyway I love mine and play them all the time, these speakers sound great playing house and trance music and especially with movies cus there bass is deep and powerful and I don't use a sub at all - sweet

Later Dude's
SuperDougieFreshNess - San Diego,CA - land of the forever dreamers, :crazy:

Not to bring back an old tread, but I just bought a pair of HPM -100 and I can't beleive how nice these are. I went and auditioned some paridigms and polk and Klipsch before deciding to buy these. I spent 300.00 for what I would say 9.8 out of 10 condition pair. Put them on a pair of low stands and they sound great. I was willing to spend up to 1000.00 for new pair of speakers, but didn't find any that gave me the sound I wanted. Sub woofer, Ha, who needs one. I left the bookselves and sub for my home theather. If anyone knows of a speaker that can complete with the Pioneer HPM for the money I would like to know.

Sorry this is just my 2 cents.

Thanks, jjp

jjp; I'd like to know too. good thing that the surrounds were made out of paper that last forever in those days rather than the rubber that deteriorated. have a good time listening. kelsci.....

Does anyone remember the special addition clear acrylic HPM-100's? Always thought if anyone had them in mint condition today they would have something very retro cool indeed.

Yes, captjamo. In the one store called the GOLDEN TRIANGLE, they had one piece only that just demonstrated how the inside of a HPM-100 looked but I never saw a pair of working acrylic HPM-100s though.

I could be wrong but I think at one time Pioneer offered a limited number for sale. I do remember that you would go into some audio departments and see a pair in the showroom long after they quit making/selling them. They were just cool and they hung around showrooms for a long time, I guess, for that reason.

What are the "true" British speakers you speak of?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by captjamo

Does anyone remember the special addition clear acrylic HPM-100's? Always thought if anyone had them in mint condition today they would have something very retro cool indeed.

---

I own a pair of the clear acrylic 100s (even have the original factory cartons). Not mint condition but in pretty good shape. Thinking of selling them, but these suckers are HEAVY - shipping would be a killer. Great conversation pieces, though.

I bought a pair of HPM 100's from an estate sale back in the 70's. The guy owned them for two months before passing on~~~. His mother sold them to me for $200. The original receipt (~900 CAD) was in the box. I have moved these things all over the country and will never sell them. They are in perfect working order and continue to outperform every second set of speakers I buy.
BTW, I heard that the acrylic enclosure model doesn't sound as good as the standard model. Any truth to that? There is a set for sale on ebay ATM.

hello, i have a kenwood kr 9050 (200 wpc) and have been looking at the pioneer sx 1280 (185 wpc) but e bay has driven prices up. i like to try different stereo eqt. the kr 9050 rocks, i also have a mint kr 9600 thats no slouch. would the sx 1280 have any better sound? the wpc are close at 185 vs 200. would kill to get a good deal on a pioneer sx 1980.

You might be better off starting a new thread on the subject, instead of piggybacking on a thread of a totally different matter. Not to mention the thread hasn't had a reply in over a year.:smile5:

A couple of new options, people are saying the Cerwin Vega CLS series are very good and gaining the company some respect. The speakers are still reasonably priced. I also recently became aware of the Klipsch Heritage line which is very good. I ended up buying some Heresy III's to try and if I can figure out how to squeeze them in my room may go for some Cornwalls. Unless you find them used the Cerwin Vega CLS 12 is about $600.00 as an example.
http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/heritage/

I had a pair of Pioneer HPM's and I thought they were 100's, they were a 10" 4-way, mid/tweeter/super tweeter. They had controls on back for mid and highs. I'm not sure what all the rage is about, I literally ended up blowing the woofer cones off the frame with a Kenwood KA-3300d. Of course, this wasn't a typical Kenwood integrated, it was over $1k in the late 80's. If I had only known...... I should have packed them babies up and took care of them.

Always check www.amazon.com for price on products, you can usually catch a deal. I usually don't buy electronics through them but if I have to buy online any way I usually find a cheaper price with them.