Overwhelmed - too many speakers out there...

[Woochifer]

Was that motivated by the listener or by the industry? I wonder... If a speaker won't faithfully (or reasonably anyhow) reproduce the full range of human hearing, then you need to buy more speakers to fill in the gaps, right?

More like improvements to the technology and cyclical trends. Ported speakers require a precise match between the driver characteristics, the cabinet volume, and the size of the vent. Once the Thiele/Small parameters were standardized starting around the mid-70s, manufacturers and hobbyists could accurately and inexpensively predict a ported speaker's tonal characteristics with different cabinet/vent combinations. Less trial-and-error and prototyping needed to get a ported design to sound right. The advantages of a ported design are their greater efficiency and more linear bass response down to the tuned port frequency.

Acoustic suspension designs are generally more forgiving, which is why beginner DIY hobbyists will often go with a sealed speaker for their first project. Subjectively, some listeners note that sealed speakers have a tighter and more natural sounding bass because they have a quicker transient response and a more gradual dropoff at the low end. However, the dropoff in the bass also starts higher up in the frequency range compared to a ported speaker. I think a big part of the ported speaker's popularity is because the lower efficiency and bass dropoff that begins sooner put the sealed speakers at a disadvantage in a dealer showroom comparison. A ported speaker will likely sound louder, with more bass. A sealed speaker can go deeper, but it won't go louder. A lot of other factors are in play, but those are the general differences.

As far as the full range goes, a lot of speaker design comes down to how far into that lower octave you want to go. n order for a main speaker to cover most of the audible range, they require very large surface area and/or large cabinets. It's difficult to get keep cabinets that large from resonating, which is why the full range speakers cost so much more. Subwoofers are a very cost-effective way of going into the lower octave because it only has to cover a limited range, only requires a single cabinet, and doesn't have to worry about how the bass response curve will affect the higher frequencies. More speakers won't give you more bass -- more capable speakers or a subwoofer will.

[musiclover60]

tin ear,

I feel for ya buddy. My 20 plus year old JBL 46's crapped out one me a few months ago and everything I heard from the big stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) sounded like crap. I was looking in the same price range as you, gave up on that and jumped my budget to $1000. Went to some good stores and then my $1000 looked puny! Don't dispair though, there are some very good speakers a little over your budget that could be had within your budget if you buy demos, open box, etc. PSB's are nice. The NHT's I haven't heard, but I have heard they're made by the same people who used to make ADS, a very good loudspeaker, and excellant for the type of music you mentioned. Two I'd highly recommend are Definitive Technology (BP8b) and Vandersteen (1c). Both have excellant imaging. Both have crisp clear highs. Both have good bass (though they can be somewhat boomy if not positioned properly). And both have slightly subdued midranges. The Def Techs are $800 new, and the Vandersteens come in at about $850. They both can be had for about $650 or so for dems, etc (I got lucky and found my Def Techs at a pawn shop for $325 for 1-2 year old speakers). Most high end shops have Vandersteens. A lot of shops also carry the Def Techs, the problem there is they seem to want to carry the more expensive 7000 series (start at 1200).

In the end, the best thing to do is take some music you like to the store and let your ear decide.

Happy hunting!

[tin ear]

have fun and let us know the outcome

I am just amazed at these speakers I bought, so I bought a matching pair of bookshelves to use as surrounds. T45s & B15s

I liked the Alpha Ts a lot; listened to them quite a while. Really liked the sound, but noticed maybe a touch of harshness. Parked myself & my discs in front of the Image T45s, and man! So much more fullness, smoother vocals, and surprising bass. Bought them on the spot.

Just for grins I thought I'd listen to PSB's small bookshelf spkrs because I really needed new surrounds as well. The Alpha Bs were pretty nice for such a small speaker. I easily could have lived with them, since my old surrounds were like 30 buck little plastic things from rat shack or somewhere that I'd bought for some purpose, don't remember what.

Figured I'd check out the Image line's small bookshelf, the B15, just to see if there was much difference. Whoa! Amazing! Those little buggers could pretty much stand on their own as fronts! In a small room, anyhow.

So I bought them too. Came in at twice my previously stated upper limit, but hey, I don't really need to eat all that much.

Thanks for all your help!

-Jon

[3db]

I am just amazed at these speakers I bought, so I bought a matching pair of bookshelves to use as surrounds. T45s & B15s

I liked the Alpha Ts a lot; listened to them quite a while. Really liked the sound, but noticed maybe a touch of harshness. Parked myself & my discs in front of the Image T45s, and man! So much more fullness, smoother vocals, and surprising bass. Bought them on the spot.

Just for grins I thought I'd listen to PSB's small bookshelf spkrs because I really needed new surrounds as well. The Alpha Bs were pretty nice for such a small speaker. I easily could have lived with them, since my old surrounds were like 30 buck little plastic things from rat shack or somewhere that I'd bought for some purpose, don't remember what.

Figured I'd check out the Image line's small bookshelf, the B15, just to see if there was much difference. Whoa! Amazing! Those little buggers could pretty much stand on their own as fronts! In a small room, anyhow.

So I bought them too. Came in at twice my previously stated upper limit, but hey, I don't really need to eat all that much.

Thanks for all your help!

-Jon

I have a complete PSB surround system with Image T45s as my mains, the older Image 8C center, Image 1B Surrounds and a Subsonic5 sub. I love it more everytime I play it and its been over a year since I purchased the T45s.

You should consider throwing in a review of your speakers into this sight after you had a chance to listen to them for awhile. I say awhile becuase I initially thought the T45s were a bit lacking in the bass. But after 2 weeks of listening to them, I found the bass response to become more pronounced but still very much in control.

Congrats Tin Ear and welcome to the family *chuckles*

[littleb]

I would suggest that the bass response of the T45s was there all along. You might just be hearing things you didn't notice before.

[tin ear]

I'm also gald to hear you spiraled out of budget limitations. Now you're really part of the club

uh oh..

Congrats Tin Ear and welcome to the family *chuckles*

Should I worry?

You should consider throwing in a review of your speakers into this sight...

Thanks. I am honored.

Oh, and Peter? Take a look at Likeitloud's avatar, LOL. Frat guy speaker? Maybe. Single guy speaker? Definitely!

-Jon

[3db]

I would suggest that the bass response of the T45s was there all along. You might just be hearing things you didn't notice before.

I took note of that and I'm not a big believer in speaker break in, least not for the mids and highs. I was very concerned from what 1st appeared a lack of bass from these speakers to the point where I double checked the polarity of my speaker connections to the receiver. Then I recalled hearing bass from another pair at the store so I thought I would give them 2 weeks. By the end of the 2 weeks, I noticed a marked improvement in their bass response. Its not that they played any deeper but the bass that was there seemed stronger in amplitude relative to the rest of the music. Room placement did not change before or after those tests. I love these speakers and unless I have gobs of cash coming my way thru a lottery winning, I do not feel the need to upgrade.

[littleb]

I certainly liked what I heard from them in the store. I've considered them in the past, I just think the older version(t4,t5) looked more, how should I say this, maybe solid looking.