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  1. #1
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    opinions of paradigm reference studio 60

    i just picked up a set for 800 bucks brand new, the studio 100's had a fuller range of sound BUT are HUGE. any opinions of the studio 60? thanks barry

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    I'm listening to a pair...

    ...right now in my bedroom. Is that a v2 or 3 fro $800? I have the v2s, purchased about 5 years ago.

    I have mixed feeling about them, but they worked out pretty well until I bought a better speaker (which cost twice as much).

    Negatives? They don't like poor quality software (one can say this about many speakers, though), the mids get a bit gritty when pushed to med-high volumes, I always wanted a bit more bass out of them, and tonally, they're a bit dark or "closed-in". Compared to better speakers they are somewhat "hooty" or sort of nasal.

    Whoa - this sounds like a long gripe list (and maybe it is) but I really did have a good time with them. They also do many things well...

    I think they are quite dymanic and tight. The drivers seem to be able to start and stop quickly. Very good with light Jazz and strings. Also, the 60s throw a good soundstage with tight phantom images. Despite being fairly large, instruments don't seem to bunch-up around the speaker. Set-up properly, I feel they are a good all-rounder. Well-built and good resale value.

    Pricing keeps creeping up, but you seem to have beat that! Hopefully you're using them in a fairly damped room. They also like to breathe for best sound - I had mine about 5 feet out into my old livingroom.

    I'm sure you will enjoy them, have fun!

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    Forum Regular Registered Member PAT.P's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Paradigm referance

    Quote Originally Posted by 9secondsflat
    i just picked up a set for 800 bucks brand new, the studio 100's had a fuller range of sound BUT are HUGE. any opinions of the studio 60? thanks barry
    Very nice speaker and very good price ,the referance is their highend speaker.There lots of review on the Paradigm site ,enjoy them ! Pat.P

  4. #4
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Actually the Signature line is Paradigm's high end line. The Reference is a step below that.

    I like the 60's for what they are, but I always preferred the 40's on stands because the 60's are too short.

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    Forum Regular Registered Member PAT.P's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Paradigm referance

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Actually the Signature line is Paradigm's high end line. The Reference is a step below that.

    I like the 60's for what they are, but I always preferred the 40's on stands because the 60's are too short.
    When did they start the Signature line ? Went on their website and they are pretty impressive ! How much for these S8 (6 driver) ? Pat.P

  6. #6
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Pat.P, calm down buddy...You'd have to get a loan to buy the S8's which IMO aren't a heckuva lot better than the smaller S2's, which are only a tiny bit better than the Studio series....Problem is, they sound about as good to me as a lot of other overpriced speakers in the $2000-$5000 price range (and there's alot of those).

    To me Paradigm completely abandoned their strengths in producing good sounding, low cost speakers with the Signature line...the performance improvement isn't nearly enough to justify the cost increase...I think they spent way too much time making them pretty.

    I think if you wanted to drop that kind of money on speakers you'd be better off to look at some offerings by Focus Audio, Totem, Martin Logan, Magnepan, PMC, Audio Note (yes, Audio Note), etc...

    Or stick with the far superior value in the Studio line if you must have Paradigm.

  7. #7
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    they are the version 3.....got em from ebay.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Registered Member PAT.P's Avatar
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    Talking Paradingm reference

    [QUOTE=kexodusc]Pat.P, calm down buddy...You'd have to get a loan to buy the S8's which IMO aren't a heckuva lot better than the smaller S2's, which are only a tiny bit better than the Studio series....Problem is, they sound about as good to me as a lot of other overpriced speakers in the $2000-$5000 price range (and there's alot of those).

    Not exited no more at this price I would rather get the axiom M80 Ti or the Dahlquist Qx10a (already have the Dahlquist tower QX 9 and their Qx-25ra special effects on wall speaker and their qx100SA sub ) also have the Paradigm PS1000 sub.Pat.P

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    I also had mixed feelings...

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Pat.P, calm down buddy...You'd have to get a loan to buy the S8's which IMO aren't a heckuva lot better than the smaller S2's, which are only a tiny bit better than the Studio series....Problem is, they sound about as good to me as a lot of other overpriced speakers in the $2000-$5000 price range (and there's alot of those).

    To me Paradigm completely abandoned their strengths in producing good sounding, low cost speakers with the Signature line...the performance improvement isn't nearly enough to justify the cost increase...I think they spent way too much time making them pretty.

    I think if you wanted to drop that kind of money on speakers you'd be better off to look at some offerings by Focus Audio, Totem, Martin Logan, Magnepan, PMC, Audio Note (yes, Audio Note), etc...

    Or stick with the far superior value in the Studio line if you must have Paradigm.
    ...about the Sigs. I had a GREAT S2 demo, and a mediocre S4 listen.

    Probably had to with set-up... the 2s were 6 or 8ish feet away from walls while the 4s were closer to the back wall and each other.

    The Sig 2s put up one Hell of a soundfield - layered to the max, as good (better?) as anything I have heard. The sound was totally non-fatigueing and very believable. Bass and dynamics were a bit lacking, but that was the trade-off.

    The 4s were much more up-front and in your face. A bit brash (my opinion, obviously). Not bad, but not any screaming bargain at the price. Could also have been the software (cop out, but does affect).

    The Studio 20s in the same room were nowhere near as good as the S2. Again, it seems like you'll need a lot of room to hear the differences. Probably not a good thing.

    And yeah, as always, better listen to everything in the price range!

  10. #10
    RGA
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    This is interesting - some reasonably coherent remarks about Paradigm. I agree with the points about the sound of the 60V2 (I assume this is the one you're talking about) Good speaker for the money with the traits about them I agree with almost fully. Have not heard the 60V3. The 100V3 is overpriced lacks bass depth and dynamics and is way way too expensive. I also agree with the N. Abstentia about the 40. If I were to go with paradigm I would probably buy the 40 and a sub (yes a sub) since the 100 I would want a sub with I may as well save a few bucks and get the 40 and a BETTER sub or preferably two subs.

    And I trust my dealer (one of the only dealers I have hever run into that I feel IS trustworthy) who had the Sigs in and sent them back - they're a huge Paradigm dealer carrying BOTH lines and subs and H/T speakers etc. Actually they may be the biggest paradigm dealer in British Columbia and certainly the biggest on Vancouver Island. Paradigm is Canadian. They had the Sigs in for several weeks - but at the price had no chance against the other speakers carried. They sounded, in their opinion 30 years selling gear, too much like the studio line but in nicer finishes at HUGE HUGE price increases.

    I liked the 40, 60 and 100 version 2, I like the Atom version 3(for the dollars) and the Titan I would give another chance becuase it sounded pretty good last time I was in - ditto for the Monitor 3.

    $800.00 is seemingly a good price - my dealer has been selling Paradigm for 25% off so it seems like if your a fan it's a good time to buy.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    This is interesting - some reasonably coherent remarks about Paradigm. I agree with the points about the sound of the 60V2 (I assume this is the one you're talking about) Good speaker for the money with the traits about them I agree with almost fully. Have not heard the 60V3. The 100V3 is overpriced lacks bass depth and dynamics and is way way too expensive. I also agree with the N. Abstentia about the 40. If I were to go with paradigm I would probably buy the 40 and a sub (yes a sub) since the 100 I would want a sub with I may as well save a few bucks and get the 40 and a BETTER sub or preferably two subs.

    And I trust my dealer (one of the only dealers I have hever run into that I feel IS trustworthy) who had the Sigs in and sent them back - they're a huge Paradigm dealer carrying BOTH lines and subs and H/T speakers etc. Actually they may be the biggest paradigm dealer in British Columbia and certainly the biggest on Vancouver Island. Paradigm is Canadian. They had the Sigs in for several weeks - but at the price had no chance against the other speakers carried. They sounded, in their opinion 30 years selling gear, too much like the studio line but in nicer finishes at HUGE HUGE price increases.

    I liked the 40, 60 and 100 version 2, I like the Atom version 3(for the dollars) and the Titan I would give another chance becuase it sounded pretty good last time I was in - ditto for the Monitor 3.

    $800.00 is seemingly a good price - my dealer has been selling Paradigm for 25% off so it seems like if your a fan it's a good time to buy.
    I thought you were relying on your dealer's opinion for the Paradigm Signature line!

    Alas, I have no inclination to rely on your dealer's judgment, though they may well be as good as you say they are. I would say the same of my own dealer, who has excellent judgment in speakers. But his taste may not be the same as mine, and he has to worry about market considerations as well, as does your dealer.

    I have heard both the S2 and the S8, unfortunately at different dealers, and was highly impressed by both of them. Smooth response, wide and deep three dimensional image. They sounded excellent with everything I tried--full orchestra, male and female vocals, opera, piano, chorus, chamber music, etc. They outclassed the v. 3 Studio Series by quite a bit for my purposes. I don't think their prices are out of line at all, rather below mid-market for that level of quality; one might spend considerably less or considerably more, depending on just what one prefers.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    I think the main thing is this..the Studio line is outstanding in it's price class. You'd have to spend twice as much to beat them...which brings us to the Signature line which does in fact cost twice as much. They sound just a tad better and that price puts them right in the middle of some heavy competition. The Studio line is a clear stand out for the price, the Signature line is just one of many available for their price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I think the main thing is this..the Studio line is outstanding in it's price class. You'd have to spend twice as much to beat them...which brings us to the Signature line which does in fact cost twice as much. They sound just a tad better and that price puts them right in the middle of some heavy competition. The Studio line is a clear stand out for the price, the Signature line is just one of many available for their price.
    Actually, there are some speakers for not too much more which I think outclass the Paradigm Reference V. 3 speakers I have heard, which are the Studio 40, v. 3, and the Studio 100, v. 3. The PSB Stratus line is one. I unfortunately haven't done a direct comparison with the Signature line and the PSB Stratus line--and PSB now has a Platinum Series, which I haven't heard.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  14. #14
    RGA
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    At the prices of the Paradigm V3 series at least the 100V3 there are about a dozen speakers I can list off the top of my hand that are easily better than thing. Starting with its predecessor for ~$500.00 less. If it were not for the obscenely overpriced thin crappy sound for the money B&W 705 the 100 V3 would be my worst value contender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    At the prices of the Paradigm V3 series at least the 100V3 there are about a dozen speakers I can list off the top of my hand that are easily better than thing. Starting with its predecessor for ~$500.00 less. If it were not for the obscenely overpriced thin crappy sound for the money B&W 705 the 100 V3 would be my worst value contender.
    The B & W 705 sounds very nice, actually, and is not a bad value at all. It projects a big wide image with height and depth, and has a very smooth response. They are good on various types of music, easy to listen to. I tried them with full orchestra, including massed strings, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, and piano. I prefer a somewhat more laid back balance, but I could live quite happily with a pair. It's an excellent speaker.

    http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...bw/index4.html

    One wonders whether you heard them with the port plug in! Just who set them up for you? That certainly will reduce the bass response, and the measurements in the Stereophile review indicate this quite clearly. However, without the port plugs, the bass response is only 5 dB down at 40 Hz, which hardly amounts to thin sound. The bass was quite adequate for orchestral and piano music, in other words, for most music.

    I have also heard the Paradigm Studio 100, V. 3. It's a pretty good speaker. The dispersion is quite wide and the response holds up well over a wide angle. They do seem more colored to me than the Signature Series. The Signature S2 and S8 are both very fine speakers, and I really don't much care whether your dealer thinks otherwise.

    I haven't compared the V. 3 and V. 2 Reference speakers directly with each, but I do recall that I thought the V. 2 was quite neutral in balance.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  16. #16
    RGA
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    No plug in the 705 - two different rooms two different High end set-ups(two different front ends in the same room too). Ahh the measurements are missing something - how they actually sound in life. If you think it's good for the money that's fine - it all depends on one's frame of reference. I have no doubt compared to a lot of like speakers that the 705 won't best many of them. However if you would like a much better sounding more lifelike speaker with a bigger presentation more dynamics better vocally more air etc etc etc and would like to SAVE $1500.00 Canadian dollars(which lately actually means a bit of cash) come to SOundhounds and pick up a set of AN AX-Two loudspeakers - best of all you can directly compare the spekaer side by side in FOUR different rooms with a vast array of equipment on lots of different stands and heights. With that $1500.00 you save that would pay for your flight to beautiful British Columbia a few nights accomodation on Vancouver Island - Victoria ranked very high in best vacation spots in the world. Yes all this can be yours with money left over and best of all a mucgh better speaker to take home with you that can be run off of better lower powered amplifiers.

    Not as perty but impress your friends with AC/DC to Beethoven - have Dianna Krall Patricia Barber et all be there with you for the low low price that even the Studio 100 doesn't muster. Heck and if you're in the subwoofer love fest that $1500.00 can buy a pretty decent subwoofer one would think.

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    No, RGA, I actually listen to speakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    No plug in the 705 - two different rooms two different High end set-ups(two different front ends in the same room too). Ahh the measurements are missing something - how they actually sound in life. If you think it's good for the money that's fine - it all depends on one's frame of reference. I have no doubt compared to a lot of like speakers that the 705 won't best many of them. However if you would like a much better sounding more lifelike speaker with a bigger presentation more dynamics better vocally more air etc etc etc and would like to SAVE $1500.00 Canadian dollars(which lately actually means a bit of cash) come to SOundhounds and pick up a set of AN AX-Two loudspeakers - best of all you can directly compare the spekaer side by side in FOUR different rooms with a vast array of equipment on lots of different stands and heights. With that $1500.00 you save that would pay for your flight to beautiful British Columbia a few nights accomodation on Vancouver Island - Victoria ranked very high in best vacation spots in the world. Yes all this can be yours with money left over and best of all a mucgh better speaker to take home with you that can be run off of better lower powered amplifiers.

    Not as perty but impress your friends with AC/DC to Beethoven - have Dianna Krall Patricia Barber et all be there with you for the low low price that even the Studio 100 doesn't muster. Heck and if you're in the subwoofer love fest that $1500.00 can buy a pretty decent subwoofer one would think.
    Somehow, I manage to both listen to speakers AND check out the measurements. You seem unable to get your mind around that. However, I can not only hear, I can also read. A good set of measurements can show some things about how a speaker sounds. Now, I have auditioned the B & W 705 and found it to be an excellent speaker and a pretty good value in the market place. I took the trouble to read the review in Stereophile, and indeed, that is why I put them on my audition list. If you can't understand the measurements, ignore them. John Atkinson thought they were very good speakers.

    I also listened to the Paradigm Signature S2 and S8 and thought they sounded wonderful. Soundstage has recently reviewed both and supplied NRC measurements. Their reviewers thought they were great. Audio Ideas Guide has reviewed and measured the S4. Andrew Marshall liked it a lot. You have so far evaluated the Signature Series negatively based on your dealer's comments!!

    Victoria is a lovely city. Been there, done that. Visited the Butchart Gardens, too, very impressive.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    No plug in the 705 - two different rooms two different High end set-ups(two different front ends in the same room too). Ahh the measurements are missing something - how they actually sound in life. If you think it's good for the money that's fine - it all depends on one's frame of reference. I have no doubt compared to a lot of like speakers that the 705 won't best many of them. However if you would like a much better sounding more lifelike speaker with a bigger presentation more dynamics better vocally more air etc etc etc and would like to SAVE $1500.00 Canadian dollars(which lately actually means a bit of cash) come to SOundhounds and pick up a set of AN AX-Two loudspeakers - best of all you can directly compare the spekaer side by side in FOUR different rooms with a vast array of equipment on lots of different stands and heights. With that $1500.00 you save that would pay for your flight to beautiful British Columbia a few nights accomodation on Vancouver Island - Victoria ranked very high in best vacation spots in the world. Yes all this can be yours with money left over and best of all a mucgh better speaker to take home with you that can be run off of better lower powered amplifiers.

    Not as perty but impress your friends with AC/DC to Beethoven - have Dianna Krall Patricia Barber et all be there with you for the low low price that even the Studio 100 doesn't muster. Heck and if you're in the subwoofer love fest that $1500.00 can buy a pretty decent subwoofer one would think.
    Yes all this can be yours with money left over and best of all a mucgh better speaker to take home with you that can be run off of better lower powered amplifiers.

    Excuse me while I break out the insulin before I drown in the syrupy verbiage. Oh well, yet another thread that's been hijacked into an Audio Note and Soundhounds advertisement.

    You talk about "frame of reference" then go into having no doubt that "compared to a lot of like speakers that the 705 won't best many of them". It's like you're telling people that it's all good for them to do their own listening and make up their own mind, yet you're presuming what their opinions will ultimately be.

    If measurements are "missing something" and don't correspond to what we actually hear in real life, then how come performing room corrections based on low frequency measurements eliminated boominess in my system and resulted in a tight and even sounding bass? If measurements don't correlate to real world hearing, then I guess it was all just dumb luck, and the best way for speaker designers to come up with anything good is random trial and error.

    Funny that you refer to a "subwoofer love fest" when the only lovefest that I see is your own fanboy obsession with all things AN and the infallible opinions of your local dealer.

  19. #19
    RGA
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    You try and write in a light humourous tone of an advert and you get good ol Woochifer no sense of humour to count on. As subwoofers perfectly integrate with Any and all main speakers in any and all rooms then buying the standmount sub is your idea of perfect sound - after all a VERY GOOD $1500.00Sub is sure to be bettter than the quality of bass from the Studio 100. So if room permits theoretically and in actually for you a Studio 20 $1500.00 Sub match-up would be better. And since the AX Two IMO (and it's just that) bests the Studio 20 and is cheaper too then the $1500.00 Sub will really impress.

    I can read and understand the measurements pretty well from Stereophile. I like to listen to the speaker first before i read them - takes out a possible expectation bias that John Atkinson said it measures well so therefore i will find it to sound good. Unfortunately because so many of the speakers I have found that he measures well sound so bad in the real world that for me it is doubly important to NOT read the measurements BEFORE I hear the product because expectation bias goes the other way as well.

    It's pretty sad if you're going to only listen to speakers that come through Stereophile and Soundstage. Is it conceivable that you might hear two speakers side by side and love one but then go look both of them up and see no measurements anywhere on the one that sounded better? Would you not buy it because you didn't have that measurement? Worse if the other so-so speakers was raved about by JA you'd buy that one?

    I can understand the measurements which is why I would want to bring it back to them and say geeze they don't work to serve the music - which "should" have people going back to the measurments going hmm what's missing - lot's of it is missing. But you think they've covered ALL the basis right. Using science for marketing - this sure ain;t the only industry someone would use science to generate the sale of products - yes no American outfit would ever put profit before the whole truth and nothing but the truth. No one would EVER EVER put profit above people.

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