Newbie needs input and clarification

[Seanc0500]

I have a home theater setup, but I don't believe it's all that great.
The one flaw is that the speakers are mismatched, most importantly,
the center with the pair of front (main) speakers- much different
sound from each.
So I've been lurking on this forum to glean some info.

Here's a question that will highlight my relative ignorance on all
things audio.

If I actually put a bookshelf speaker in a bookshelf (actually
on a shelf of an entertainment center, so it would be enclosed
on three sides) will it sound different and/or worse than if
it was on a stand away from other objects???
I keep seeing the advice that speakers should be located away from
walls, and away from other surfaces, but shouldn't a 'bookshelf'
speaker perform well if it is located in a bookshelf?

thanks for any input on this.

[JoeE SP9]

Yes. That is the simple answer to your question. Virtually all box speakers will sound better when placed on stands and away from any surface. The term bookshelf really means the speaker is small enough to be mounted on a bookshelf. It is not a recommendation for positioning.

[Seanc0500]

Yes. That is the simple answer to your question. Virtually all box speakers will sound better when placed on stands and away from any surface. The term bookshelf really means the speaker is small enough to be mounted on a bookshelf. It is not a recommendation for positioning.

So would I be better off getting a small (but good) satellite-type speaker
that would fill much less of the space, and therefore be 'farther away' from
the sides of the bookshelf?

By better off, I mean better of doing this instead of getting a bookshelf speaker
that would fill up most of the space.

For example, say I have a bookshelf space within an entertainment center that's
20" W x 12" H x 16" D, would it better to put something like an Athena AS-B1
in there, or something like an Athena Micra 6, or even something like an Orb?

Thanks in advance for any input, I'm looking to upgrade my front L&R and this
is the space I have. Whatever I upgrade to, I would be getting a matching center.
This is primarily for HT, although I would appreciate good two-channel stereo sound.

[jasmit]

I can't disagree with what Joe said. However, the question is, "How much better will they sound on stands?" Vastly? Noticeably? Marginally? Keep in mind there are perhaps millions of people who have their bookshelf speakers on bookshelves or in cabinets and are very happy with the sound -- including me. We sometimes have to make compromises in our systems for a variety of reasons -- budget, aesthetics, WAF, room configuration, etc.

If you stick with front-ported speakers and are careful about placing them -- not on moveable shelves which can resonate, but perhaps on the sturdy base cabinet of a built-in wall unit and ensure that the front baffle is as far forward as possible and that there is some breathing room all around them, I don't think you will notice too much of a degradation in sound. Of course they should be positioned so that the tweeters are at ear level and toed in appropriately.

Also, I've heard of a couple of speaker companies which manufacture bookshelf speakers which are designed and engineered specifically so that they can be adjusted to be placed on bookshelves. Unfortunately, the brand names escape me right now.

[46minaudio]

I can't disagree with what Joe said. However, the question is, "How much better will they sound on stands?" Vastly? Noticeably? Marginally? Keep in mind there are perhaps millions of people who have their bookshelf speakers on bookshelves or in cabinets and are very happy with the sound -- including me. We sometimes have to make compromises in our systems for a variety of reasons -- budget, aesthetics, WAF, room configuration, etc.

If you stick with front-ported speakers and are careful about placing them -- not on moveable shelves which can resonate, but perhaps on the sturdy base cabinet of a built-in wall unit and ensure that the front baffle is as far forward as possible and that there is some breathing room all around them, I don't think you will notice too much of a degradation in sound. Of course they should be positioned so that the tweeters are at ear level and toed in appropriately.

Also, I've heard of a couple of speaker companies which manufacture bookshelf speakers which are designed and engineered specifically so that they can be adjusted to be placed on bookshelves. Unfortunately, the brand names escape me right now.

True.
Really depends on the speaker.Some speakers are designed to be placed on walls.Some are not.I would think most bookshelfs are designed to sound there best in full space.They have a circuit built into the crossover for BSC.I would also think you should be able to find some(alot of new models comming out for Plasma TV that hang on the wall)with out this circuit built in..Like jasmit said most will be happy with the sound.BTW at 89 a pair for the ASB1s at BB this has to be the Audio bargain of the year..IMO

[noddin0ff]

Yet another opinion...yes, it will sound different, but you may like the difference. The bookshelf can act like a sounding board and help reinforce some of the lower frequencies. You may get a little more bass sound, and that might sound better. It is true that if all speakers sound identical you can potentially achieve a seamless sound field, but in order to achieve that seamlessness you also need good room/placement geometry etc, that I'd say are difficult to get in most rooms.

So, I'm of the opinion that seamlessness is less critical and many times not possible. It may not bother you (dialog heavy movies e.g. are more revealing). Rather than worry about idealized perfect placement, twiddle with positioning or adjusting the tone controls for the center so it sounds best to you in the real world. Someday the solution you arrive at may seem inadequate, and then you get the upgrade bug...

Some centers are designed for tight enclosures, the literature for the Paradigm CC makes this claim.

[dean_martin]

If I actually put a bookshelf speaker in a bookshelf (actually
on a shelf of an entertainment center, so it would be enclosed
on three sides) will it sound different and/or worse than if
it was on a stand away from other objects???
I keep seeing the advice that speakers should be located away from
walls, and away from other surfaces, but shouldn't a 'bookshelf'
speaker perform well if it is located in a bookshelf?

thanks for any input on this.

I had a similar problem a few years ago. I went with an acoustic suspension design (a/k/a closed box). The NHT SuperOnes fit my needs at the time. I didn't notice much difference between placement on the shelf and on stands considering that the shelf happened to be at the proper height. I've tried the SuperOnes in an entertainment center cabinet with surprisingly decent results. I removed the grills (as usual) and placed the face of the speakers as close to the front edge of the cabinet as possible with a slight amount of tow-in (angled inward) and tilted the speakers by placing 1"x4"(or 5") blocks under the front of the speakers because the cabinet's speaker shelf was a little too low.

I've also tried rear-ported speakers on a shelf and in an entertainment cabinet with bad results - boomy bass, compromised imaging and soundstage.

I agree that front-ported speakers would probably work just as well as acoustic suspension speakers. Polk's RT series used to be front-ported. I'm not sure about the current models.