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  1. #1
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    My new speakers?

    Been trying to setup my new speakers and having a hard time doing so! Got yamaha 1300 receiver, studio 20's as mains, servo-15 sub. First off should i have the setting for the sub on sub or both for music and movies,or does that only apply to movies that setting?? Second i cant seem to get the mains and sub to blend with the different music i listen to. I listen to rock, classic rock, jazz, pop and some others. But ive been reading on here that when you get the music blended together then the movies will fall into place? What am i doing wrong? The sub has its on controller the x-30. So with this thing and the gain on the sub where should it all be???

  2. #2
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    Set the crossover on the sub all the way. Let the receiver handle the crossover. Make sure the speakers are set to small. Additionally play with phase settings and placement of the sub. Put the sub in the listening position and crawl around on all fours until it disappears. Have the gain on the sub initially set between 1/2 to 3/4 up. First thing to do, however, is get the crossover out of the picture as part of the problem.

  3. #3
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    im a dummy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan
    Set the crossover on the sub all the way. Let the receiver handle the crossover. Make sure the speakers are set to small. Additionally play with phase settings and placement of the sub. Put the sub in the listening position and crawl around on all fours until it disappears. Have the gain on the sub initially set between 1/2 to 3/4 up. First thing to do, however, is get the crossover out of the picture as part of the problem.
    This stuff is all new to me, this is my first powered sub. So all this stuff you said confuses me. The sub has a control on the back says-Subwoofer level. Then the sub came with a seprate controller called X-30 High Pass Subwoofer control unit. It has three dials on it that are as follows - first dial is Phase subwoofer 0 - 180, second dial says Subwoofer cutoff 35Hz - 150Hz, third dial says Subwoofer level -70 to 0 Now my receiver has its own crossover also? Where and how do i adjust this? Is there any site that explain all this stuff? Thanks for any help!!!!

  4. #4
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Unhappy If you're confused now...

    Quote Originally Posted by madmax1
    This stuff is all new to me, this is my first powered sub. So all this stuff you said confuses me. The sub has a control on the back says-Subwoofer level. Then the sub came with a seprate controller called X-30 High Pass Subwoofer control unit. It has three dials on it that are as follows - first dial is Phase subwoofer 0 - 180, second dial says Subwoofer cutoff 35Hz - 150Hz, third dial says Subwoofer level -70 to 0 Now my receiver has its own crossover also? Where and how do i adjust this? Is there any site that explain all this stuff? Thanks for any help!!!!
    wait until you move into multi-channel, then the s**t will really hit the fan!

    OK Max, first make sure you are using an RCA type plug from the "Sub Out" plug of your receiver to your sub. Speaker level (speaker wires running from your L/R speaker outputs) will utilize your Servo's built-in crossover, which you should avoid it at all possible. By running the RCA plugs (it may be a single plug or it may be two) you can utilize your Yammie's crossover which you access through the setup menu. A good rule of thumb is to start with the crossover setting where your Studio 20 roll-off. Freq. response for the 20v3 is rated at 54hz on axis so I'd start with your Yammie's sub setting at 60hz and tweak it until it sounds uniform. A good sub/sat system should sound like everything is coming from the same point source. If you are experiencing gaps, you'll need to tweak the settings and positioning until it's as even as possible. This is no simple task so grab a beer and relax, this may take awhile. Better still, buy a case and invite a friend over so you can stay in the sweet spot. Hey, at least this way when you're crawling around on the floor like Bryan says (which is good advice btw), your friends will see the case of beer and cut you some slack.

    As far as that control unit, forget the Cutoff Control as you're using the Yammie's crossover now. Phase switch is easy; use whatever setting sounds best while your mains are on. Level is the volume control and to set this correctly, you should have a SPL (sound pressure level) meter from Radio Shack ($35) and a test disk such as Avia or Sound & Vision. This will help make sure your speakers are time and sound level matched. Trust me, it's not as hard as it sounds and if you can read a meter, you can do this. You don't have to level match your system, it just sounds better if you do. Think of it this way, you spent the dough, you might as well get your maximum return on investment, right?

    Hope this helps

  5. #5
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
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    Also on your Yammie you should have LFE menu where you can adjust the amount of low frequencies for HP-headhones or SP-speakers from 0 to -10, 0 being the most. And a Dynamic Range setting, min, standard, max.. You'll have to play around with these to see what sounds best to you.

  6. #6
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    Gonna try, Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    wait until you move into multi-channel, then the s**t will really hit the fan!

    OK Max, first make sure you are using an RCA type plug from the "Sub Out" plug of your receiver to your sub. Speaker level (speaker wires running from your L/R speaker outputs) will utilize your Servo's built-in crossover, which you should avoid it at all possible. By running the RCA plugs (it may be a single plug or it may be two) you can utilize your Yammie's crossover which you access through the setup menu. A good rule of thumb is to start with the crossover setting where your Studio 20 roll-off. Freq. response for the 20v3 is rated at 54hz on axis so I'd start with your Yammie's sub setting at 60hz and tweak it until it sounds uniform. A good sub/sat system should sound like everything is coming from the same point source. If you are experiencing gaps, you'll need to tweak the settings and positioning until it's as even as possible. This is no simple task so grab a beer and relax, this may take awhile. Better still, buy a case and invite a friend over so you can stay in the sweet spot. Hey, at least this way when you're crawling around on the floor like Bryan says (which is good advice btw), your friends will see the case of beer and cut you some slack.

    As far as that control unit, forget the Cutoff Control as you're using the Yammie's crossover now. Phase switch is easy; use whatever setting sounds best while your mains are on. Level is the volume control and to set this correctly, you should have a SPL (sound pressure level) meter from Radio Shack ($35) and a test disk such as Avia or Sound & Vision. This will help make sure your speakers are time and sound level matched. Trust me, it's not as hard as it sounds and if you can read a meter, you can do this. You don't have to level match your system, it just sounds better if you do. Think of it this way, you spent the dough, you might as well get your maximum return on investment, right?

    Hope this helps
    Yes i do have the SPL meter. Gonna do what both of you said, and thanks for replying so fast! Yea i spent alot of money just want it to sound the best it can! Guess i got my work cut for me! Thanks again guys!

  7. #7
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    One potential issue that you might be running into is the way that the subwoofer interacts with the room. What you should first do is find the proper placement for your subwoofer.

    To do that, you should setup the subwoofer in the location where you sit (that might entail sticking the subwoofer on top of the sofa if it can handle the weight). Then you play a wideband test tone through the subwoofer only. Now, go around the room and listen to how the bass changes from location to location. You should identify the location where the bass sounds fullest and most even. That location is where you should set up the subwoofer. The corner placement gives you maximum reinforcement, but the bass quality and linearity can be unpredictable.

    Once it's in the right location, then you go about finding the correct crossover frequency and phase settings. The simplest way to go about setting the crossover is to let your receiver handle the bass management. Just use the subwoofer output, set your main speakers to small, and set the levels using a SPL meter. For the Studio 20, the best setting like TS said would probably be somewhere around 60 Hz, however I think that your Yamaha model is like mine and has a fixed frequency of 90 Hz. That crossover frequency is on the high side and will occasionally give away the sub's location, but the key to making it work is to get the location, the phase setting, and the levels done as close to optimal as possible.

    On my system, I also use a parametric equalizer to correct for the room-induced peaks that made my bass sound overly boomy. It was that boominess that also made the integration between my sub and main speakers difficult. Once I corrected for the boominess, the integration is now very good and the overall bass linearity is better than most non-equalized setups. The parametric EQ will only work on your system if you use the receiver's bass management because they use the line level signal from the receiver's subwoofer output.

    Conversely, your setup might work best with the external X-30 handling the bass management. That allows you to tweak with the crossover frequency to find the best blend between the sub and Studio 20s. If you let the receiver handle the bass management, then you will either turn the crossover frequency all the way up on the X-30 or bypass the crossover altogether.

  8. #8
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    Crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    wait until you move into multi-channel, then the s**t will really hit the fan!

    OK Max, first make sure you are using an RCA type plug from the "Sub Out" plug of your receiver to your sub. Speaker level (speaker wires running from your L/R speaker outputs) will utilize your Servo's built-in crossover, which you should avoid it at all possible. By running the RCA plugs (it may be a single plug or it may be two) you can utilize your Yammie's crossover which you access through the setup menu. A good rule of thumb is to start with the crossover setting where your Studio 20 roll-off. Freq. response for the 20v3 is rated at 54hz on axis so I'd start with your Yammie's sub setting at 60hz and tweak it until it sounds uniform. A good sub/sat system should sound like everything is coming from the same point source. If you are experiencing gaps, you'll need to tweak the settings and positioning until it's as even as possible. This is no simple task so grab a beer and relax, this may take awhile. Better still, buy a case and invite a friend over so you can stay in the sweet spot. Hey, at least this way when you're crawling around on the floor like Bryan says (which is good advice btw), your friends will see the case of beer and cut you some slack.

    As far as that control unit, forget the Cutoff Control as you're using the Yammie's crossover now. Phase switch is easy; use whatever setting sounds best while your mains are on. Level is the volume control and to set this correctly, you should have a SPL (sound pressure level) meter from Radio Shack ($35) and a test disk such as Avia or Sound & Vision. This will help make sure your speakers are time and sound level matched. Trust me, it's not as hard as it sounds and if you can read a meter, you can do this. You don't have to level match your system, it just sounds better if you do. Think of it this way, you spent the dough, you might as well get your maximum return on investment, right?

    Hope this helps
    Does my yamaha 1300 have the crossover you are talking about because i cant find anything on it in the main menu???

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax1
    Does my yamaha 1300 have the crossover you are talking about because i cant find anything on it in the main menu???
    No, I believe that your model has a crossover point fixed at 90 Hz.

  10. #10
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    Smile Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    No, I believe that your model has a crossover point fixed at 90 Hz.
    Thanks for explaining all this stuff to me cause thats what i have is that boomness sound or its to thin sound. That sucks about my receiver that its fixed? Thought that was a good receiver should move up to the 1400??? Well looking at the Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124p Parametric EQ is this the one you whould recommend for my system? It's in my area for about $120.00 Thanks again guys, you all have been very helpful!!!

  11. #11
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    How whould i let the x-30 do that

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    One potential issue that you might be running into is the way that the subwoofer interacts with the room. What you should first do is find the proper placement for your subwoofer.

    To do that, you should setup the subwoofer in the location where you sit (that might entail sticking the subwoofer on top of the sofa if it can handle the weight). Then you play a wideband test tone through the subwoofer only. Now, go around the room and listen to how the bass changes from location to location. You should identify the location where the bass sounds fullest and most even. That location is where you should set up the subwoofer. The corner placement gives you maximum reinforcement, but the bass quality and linearity can be unpredictable.

    Once it's in the right location, then you go about finding the correct crossover frequency and phase settings. The simplest way to go about setting the crossover is to let your receiver handle the bass management. Just use the subwoofer output, set your main speakers to small, and set the levels using a SPL meter. For the Studio 20, the best setting like TS said would probably be somewhere around 60 Hz, however I think that your Yamaha model is like mine and has a fixed frequency of 90 Hz. That crossover frequency is on the high side and will occasionally give away the sub's location, but the key to making it work is to get the location, the phase setting, and the levels done as close to optimal as possible.

    On my system, I also use a parametric equalizer to correct for the room-induced peaks that made my bass sound overly boomy. It was that boominess that also made the integration between my sub and main speakers difficult. Once I corrected for the boominess, the integration is now very good and the overall bass linearity is better than most non-equalized setups. The parametric EQ will only work on your system if you use the receiver's bass management because they use the line level signal from the receiver's subwoofer output.

    Conversely, your setup might work best with the external X-30 handling the bass management. That allows you to tweak with the crossover frequency to find the best blend between the sub and Studio 20s. If you let the receiver handle the bass management, then you will either turn the crossover frequency all the way up on the X-30 or bypass the crossover altogether.
    How whould i setup the x-30 to handle the crossover ans bypass the receiver set 90Hz??? All this stuff is confusing to me. I loved the way these speakers sounded in the store compared to alot of others. Gets me mad i wish i understood this stuff better. I wait all this time to save up and buy all these speakers and cant get the sound. But you guys are helping, im trying to read all my manuals and scanning the web for info Thanks!!

  12. #12
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    We all started at one point in time. If the receiver is x-oded at 90Hz than set your sub to "external" and your speakers to small (depending on how low they go). Make sure you find the best position for the subwoofer. It doesnt have to be a corner. Maybe try some bass traps in your room. Do you have a lot of furniture in your room ?

    Cheers
    Maggie 3.6R to be replaced with new Apogee Scintillas 1ohm !! :-) 20Hz flat to Ultrasonic at 110db at 4m
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    Contact me...f.wiegand@t-online.de

  13. #13
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    Wooch help

    Quote Originally Posted by madmax1
    How whould i setup the x-30 to handle the crossover ans bypass the receiver set 90Hz??? All this stuff is confusing to me. I loved the way these speakers sounded in the store compared to alot of others. Gets me mad i wish i understood this stuff better. I wait all this time to save up and buy all these speakers and cant get the sound. But you guys are helping, im trying to read all my manuals and scanning the web for info Thanks!!
    How wuold i bypass the crossover in my receiver to the x-30 or did you mean something else? Plus is the destroyer EQ any good? thanks.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Why are you using the X-30 if you already have a crossover in the receiver?

  15. #15
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax1
    Thanks for explaining all this stuff to me cause thats what i have is that boomness sound or its to thin sound. That sucks about my receiver that its fixed? Thought that was a good receiver should move up to the 1400??? Well looking at the Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124p Parametric EQ is this the one you whould recommend for my system? It's in my area for about $120.00 Thanks again guys, you all have been very helpful!!!
    Before you go investing in the parametric EQ, I suggest you first go to Radio Shack and buy a SPL meter. First thing to do is make sure that you have the level set correctly. Setting the sub level by ear just doesn't work. Next thing you need to do is identify whether your room causes boomy peaks to occur. Your receiver has a built in low frequency tone generator, so use that to do some measurements in your lows.

    If you find some large variations (8 db or more), THEN you should consider looking into a BFD. When using the BFD, you'll need a more precise set of test tones. You can either download them from various sites, or buy a test CD with a large library of test tones. Keep in mind that the BFD is very effective for dialing back the boomy peaks, but it's relatively ineffective for boosting frequencies that get cancelled out by the room effects.

    I use one in my setup and it's works very well -- probably the single most important part of getting the bass in my system to sound right. The BFD is not a user friendly device, but if you're willing to go through the learning curve, it works and it's inexpensive.

    Sonny Parker's website is a great place to start if you want more info on the BFD.

    http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm

  16. #16
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax1
    How wuold i bypass the crossover in my receiver to the x-30 or did you mean something else? Plus is the destroyer EQ any good? thanks.
    If your receiver handles the bass management, then you would bypass the crossover on the X-30.

  17. #17
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    Smile Need a starting point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Before you go investing in the parametric EQ, I suggest you first go to Radio Shack and buy a SPL meter. First thing to do is make sure that you have the level set correctly. Setting the sub level by ear just doesn't work. Next thing you need to do is identify whether your room causes boomy peaks to occur. Your receiver has a built in low frequency tone generator, so use that to do some measurements in your lows.

    If you find some large variations (8 db or more), THEN you should consider looking into a BFD. When using the BFD, you'll need a more precise set of test tones. You can either download them from various sites, or buy a test CD with a large library of test tones. Keep in mind that the BFD is very effective for dialing back the boomy peaks, but it's relatively ineffective for boosting frequencies that get cancelled out by the room effects.

    I use one in my setup and it's works very well -- probably the single most important part of getting the bass in my system to sound right. The BFD is not a user friendly device, but if you're willing to go through the learning curve, it works and it's inexpensive.

    Sonny Parker's website is a great place to start if you want more info on the BFD.

    http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm
    I do have a SPL meter, but i need to know where to start? Do i first set all the levels on the sub, then the x-30 to the manual then put the sub at listening postion?Then crawl around the room? I have all this info you guys are giving me but dont know where a starting point whould be? Sorry to keep bothering you with this. Second dont really understand bass manament threw the receiver and how to bypass with the x-30 really lost on this issue? Need the starting steps from ground up if you know what i mean, my head is spinning, but yes i do have a meter and i have used it before on my old sat/non powered sub system. Thanks so much for taking the time guys!!! Newbie here!!

  18. #18
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    1. All speakers set to small on the receiver.

    2. Crossover on the sub turned all the way up.

    3. Calibrate system. Be sure to set the gain on the sub to 1/2 - 3/4 for this. You can adjust as needed.

    4. Sub in listening position.

    5. Crawl around until the sub seems like it disappears (i.e. on music the sub is not drawing attention to itself). Where the sub disappears is where you should stick it.

    6. Re-calibrate.

    7. Enjoy!

    Keep things simple for now and get the X-30 out of the picture.

  19. #19
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    An X-30 option

    Quote Originally Posted by madmax1
    ... Second i cant seem to get the mains and sub to blend with the different music i listen to. I listen to rock, classic rock, jazz, pop and some others...
    The Paradigm X-30 is an excellent device designed primarily for use in stereo system that has either a separate pre-amp and amplifier or, at least, "pre-out" (pre-amp output) and "main in" jacks on the integrated amp/receiver. It is a line- (or low-) level, "active" cross-over that supercedes any controls on the subwoofer itself; (if I'm not mistaken, the Servo-15 doesn't have any).

    Use of the X-30 will be superfluous on multi-channel receiver with good base management. That's because the receiver itself will provide the sub cross-over control via is "sub out", (a.k.a. LFE), jack.

    In principle there is one subwoofer configuration that ought to be good for any kind of music. In practice it depends mainly on the controls the receiver provides. I don't exactly know what the Yamaha does, but with my Panasonic SA-XR25, the controls a less than I ideal. (That is, from what I can determine with my ears and the rather skimpy instruction manual.) However, not all receivers have good-enough bass management.

    For example ... I suspect that my Panasonic SA-XR25 receiver in "stereo" mode, ( best for music) , sends no signal at all to the sub. (Not, at least, if the main speaker setting is "large", which is the setting I use for best over-all sound in my own case.) In surround and dolby digital modes it does get the sub working, at least for the "low frequency effects", (LFE).

    My Panny has neither "pre out" nor "main in" jacks, so I'm out of luck for using the sub except for surround or digital. However if my receiver had these jacks I might experiment with the following ...

    • On the receiver, set main speakers to "Large";
    • Set sub to "None";
    • Connect the "pre outs" to the X-30's inputs;
    • Connect the desired X-30 high-pass outputs to the receiver's "main ins";
    • Connect the X-30 sub, (low-pass), outputs;
    • Adjust the X-30's low pass cross-over and sub volumne settings to the desired levels using the listening/measuring technique other here have described.
    By doing this you will effectively be by-passing the receiver's subwoofer cross-over. You will get the best stereo sound and very good movie sound too.

  20. #20
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    The Paradigm X-30 is an excellent device designed primarily for use in stereo system that has either a separate pre-amp and amplifier or, at least, "pre-out" (pre-amp output) and "main in" jacks on the integrated amp/receiver. It is a line- (or low-) level, "active" cross-over that supercedes any controls on the subwoofer itself; (if I'm not mistaken, the Servo-15 doesn't have any).

    Use of the X-30 will be superfluous on multi-channel receiver with good base management. That's because the receiver itself will provide the sub cross-over control via is "sub out", (a.k.a. LFE), jack.

    In principle there is one subwoofer configuration that ought to be good for any kind of music. In practice it depends mainly on the controls the receiver provides. I don't exactly know what the Yamaha does, but with my Panasonic SA-XR25, the controls a less than I ideal. (That is, from what I can determine with my ears and the rather skimpy instruction manual.) However, not all receivers have good-enough bass management.

    For example ... I suspect that my Panasonic SA-XR25 receiver in "stereo" mode, ( best for music) , sends no signal at all to the sub. (Not, at least, if the main speaker setting is "large", which is the setting I use for best over-all sound in my own case.) In surround and dolby digital modes it does get the sub working, at least for the "low frequency effects", (LFE).

    My Panny has neither "pre out" nor "main in" jacks, so I'm out of luck for using the sub except for surround or digital. However if my receiver had these jacks I might experiment with the following ...

    • On the receiver, set main speakers to "Large";
    • Set sub to "None";
    • Connect the "pre outs" to the X-30's inputs;
    • Connect the desired X-30 high-pass outputs to the receiver's "main ins";
    • Connect the X-30 sub, (low-pass), outputs;
    • Adjust the X-30's low pass cross-over and sub volumne settings to the desired levels using the listening/measuring technique other here have described.
    By doing this you will effectively be by-passing the receiver's subwoofer cross-over. You will get the best stereo sound and very good movie sound too.
    Thank you for explaining this to me gonna try it sunday gotta wedding today so cant play with it till tomorrow. Thanks for everybodys input, gonna try all of it then i'll get back with the results!

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