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  1. #1
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    For my first post: a challenge!

    Greetings all,
    I've hung around here from time to time but this is my first post. To make it fun, I'm issuing a small challenge: Find me a new 5.1 speaker system (just the speakers) that is better than what I have now, that will cost the same (or less!) than what I can sell the current system for. So here goes.

    The current system:

    Mains: Klipsch RF-25 floorstanders, crossovers & tweeters upgraded to newer spec.
    Center: Klipsch RC-25
    Rears: Klipsch RS-25
    Sub: Klipsch RW-8

    This is all driven by a Yamaha RX-V520 (80wpc). Everything is in perfect condition.


    The problem with the current setup:
    I have a toddler now and he is very interested in the speakers. He want to push them, touch them, unplug them, grab the cables, and all manner of other things. I've had to reposition the mains to just a few inches from the wall and a bit close together to keep him at bay but the rear port makes for less than ideal sound like this. Aside from this, I generally like the klipsch sound and they can produce more volume than I have real need for. But hey, I like overkill. Then again, Iíve had Klipsch since way back so there is part of me that wonders ďhmmm, what am I missing?Ē. Do I find them fatiguing or is that just too loud too long? I donít know.

    Me:
    I like rock and roll of all varieties and I donít listen to much jazz or classicalĖ 75% music, 25% movies. I enjoy SACD and DVD Audio. I often listen to music without the sub. My room is wide and not deep and open on one end and medium (?) in size. My rears are on the wall right behind the couch. A while back I flirted with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.0s but I found them boxy, enclosed, and constrained when compared to a set of old Boston HD5s that I bought my wife (GF, then Ė waaay back) when she was in college. I also recently listened to some Infinity Primus P162s, and while I thought them to sound pretty good (reviews are excellent), the listening experience at the retailer really was dismal so I didnít (couldnít) commit.

    So, can it be done? Letís hear some specific and detailed suggestions. And have fun with it!

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Although, in my opinion, it shouldn't be hard to find something that sounds better than Klipsch, I'd keep what you have and train the toddler or maybe a gate can be fashioned when you aren't around to keep him out. What would keep the child from playing with the other brand of speaker? Putting something on a stand could even be more dangerous. In-wall is so permanent and lacks versatility but that would be the only fool proof option I can think of..... until the child got that tall Hopefully by then the interest in poking speakers would have gone away.

    Here's why I say keep the Klipsch, they are highly sensitive, play loud without much power, your Yamaha is rated at 80 wpc and I'm sure that's a stretch, so if you go with another brand of speaker your perceived volume levels you can reach now will drop, I'd say significantly. Also, for just Rock the Klipsch can be fun. Another thing you might try is plugging the port which will tame the speaker until yu can move it away from the wall. Depending on the size of the port yu can use a rolled up pair of socks or maybe a towel for larger port.

    It is also difficult to sell something used and end up with enough money to buy something comparable. Especially in this market and if the speakers have some years on them.

    Take a look at www.emotiva.com their speakers are said to be an excellent value. They sell direct to consumer which gives the consumer a big bang for the buck. Then again, still contending with all I said above.

    I'd also be afraid if you are a long time Klipsch user that other speakers may seem dull at first. Horns can sound pretty lively and if that's what you are used to a change could be difficult.

    BTW... Welcome to the forum.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I'm still not sure why you want new speakers. You will have the same problem with your toddler unless you mount them on the wall. Certainly bookshelf speakers on stands will pose a greater risk of injury to your toddler.

    Here's a few bookshelfs that would be better than the Infinity's-
    PSB Alpha B1's http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/507psb/

    PSB B4's, B15's and B25's http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=49

    NHT Absolute Zero's and Classic two's http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=49
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  4. #4
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    To clarify - I recognize that the only thing that will be more child-safe than what I have would be bookshelves. Obviously stands are out of the question, being even less safe than my current floorstanders. So bookshelves it would be... mounted on, well, shelves. Should I try to steer clear of rear ports if I have to mount them close to the wall?

    Also, I may have given the impression that I listen to very loud music frequently but that's really not the case at all. I don't want them to sound strained at higher volume levels but in reality I only turn them up to ridiculous a couple of times a year. I have no idea what "ridiculous" is in db but it's between 10 and 11 o'clock on my volume knob. I suspect that I don't currently push my amp that hard. Btw, I always thought the receiver put out 80wpc but Yamaha's web site says 70x5 from 20hz to 20kHz.

    I'm not sure that the comment about me finding other speakers sounding "dull" is accurate. I don't find our old HD 5s to be dull sounding and I liked the Infinitys well enough, at least as far as I could tell in the dismal environment of the store.

  5. #5
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    I would recommend trying to find a front port if looking to put the speakers on a shelf. Keep in mind for best listening speakers are to be about ear level.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Many rear ported speakers come with foam plugs to tune the speaker. You can always use socks or foam.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    BestI can think of is maybe a set of Klipsch book shelf speakers. If Klipsch is the sound you like, then Klipsch it should be. You might also like the sound of a set of Audio Node, but the price will be heftier.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  8. #8
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbr1
    Greetings all,
    I've hung around here from time to time but this is my first post. To make it fun, I'm issuing a small challenge: Find me a new 5.1 speaker system (just the speakers) that is better than what I have now, that will cost the same (or less!) than what I can sell the current system for. So here goes.

    The current system:

    Mains: Klipsch RF-25 floorstanders, crossovers & tweeters upgraded to newer spec.
    Center: Klipsch RC-25
    Rears: Klipsch RS-25
    Sub: Klipsch RW-8

    This is all driven by a Yamaha RX-V520 (80wpc). Everything is in perfect condition.

    So, can it be done? Letís hear some specific and detailed suggestions. And have fun with it!

    Thanks!
    The problem you pose is that you want to sell off your system and buy another (presumably new) for the money you sold your used speakers for. Speakers, unless rare or exotic, usually loose 50% of their value as soon as you take them out of the box. So, I would say that your going to come up short finding a better system with this concept in mind.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    The problem you pose is that you want to sell off your system and buy another (presumably new) for the money you sold your used speakers for. Speakers, unless rare or exotic, usually loose 50% of their value as soon as you take them out of the box. So, I would say that your going to come up short finding a better system with this concept in mind.
    Well I did call it a challenge!

    What got me thinking along these lines was actually the arrival of the latest Crutchfield (danger, danger!) with the Infinity Primus line on sale. Assuming I keep my sub, I could get fronts, center, and surrounds for a couple of hundred less than 50% of the original cost of my current speakers. Then I read the Stereophile review of the P162 and the wheels really started turning!

  10. #10
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbr1
    Well I did call it a challenge!

    What got me thinking along these lines was actually the arrival of the latest Crutchfield (danger, danger!) with the Infinity Primus line on sale. Assuming I keep my sub, I could get fronts, center, and surrounds for a couple of hundred less than 50% of the original cost of my current speakers. Then I read the Stereophile review of the P162 and the wheels really started turning!
    Infinity Primus are well regarded speakers. They are also much less efficiant than your Klipsch, and will not play nearly as loud with your rig. They are also going to sound a bit different than the Klipsch, which have a distictive sonic signature. If your used to the "Klipsch sound" there may be a bit a shock going to the Infinity's. Who knows though, you might like them better?
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  11. #11
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Well now, the Infinity Primus line is something I can relate too. I have a full 7.1 set of the Primus line. Their sound is different than the Klipsch though. If you are looking for that same horned sound, then these will not be for you. They do sound very good though. Not as efficient as the Klipsch, but will reach very loud levels with no problem. They are front ported, so you could hang them on the wall as I have done.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  12. #12
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    50%?? I'd of thought it was a little less than that..

  13. #13
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    50%?? I'd of thought it was a little less than that..
    That was just a ballpark figure. It would depend on the speaker, and the condition. Klipsch are pretty "saleable" speakers, so he's not going to take a huge bath selling them. However, they are for sale NEW on Ebay for about the same price as a new (Ebay O/S) Primus 360. ($425-$450 pr.)
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  14. #14
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    OK man I found it for you, I completed the challenge!! The money can be sent to me care of Audio Review. I know you must be excited so I took the liberty of a photo. BTW, it sounds amazing!!


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    OK man I found it for you, I completed the challenge!! The money can be sent to me care of Audio Review. I know you must be excited so I took the liberty of a photo. BTW, it sounds amazing!!

    Hm. That was nice of you. Thanks for your help.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Infinity Primus are well regarded speakers. They are also much less efficiant than your Klipsch, and will not play nearly as loud with your rig. They are also going to sound a bit different than the Klipsch, which have a distictive sonic signature. If your used to the "Klipsch sound" there may be a bit a shock going to the Infinity's. Who knows though, you might like them better?
    I'm not averse to different - change is good. In any case, I think the idea of a "Klipsch sound" isn't particularly accurate any more. When Stereophile reviewed the RB-15 a few years ago they didn't note that it was overly forward or bright or "in your face." in fact they noted a bit of a lack of upper end shimmer. They thought it a worthy peer to the Atoms and the Alphas of the world. And I think our little (and old) Boston HD 5s sound reaaly nice for what they are, so I don't think my ears have been "tainted."

    I am also fully aware that none of these smallish bookshelves can match Klipsch in the efficiency department, but I suspect that the same volume can be attained but the receiver will just have to work a little harder. Efficiency is one of the main reasons I'm not really thinking about a power hog like Aperion - I just don't have the power to do them justice.

  17. #17
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    So let's throw a couple of downsized options out there. Pick your fave and tell my why. These will be the mains that I build around and they will be mounted close to the wall on shelves, most likely.

    PSB Alpha b1

    Paradigm Atom v.6

    Infinity Primus P162

    Klipsch RB-51/61

    Aperion Intimus 5B

    anything else in the realm of budget audiophiledom that I should consider?

  18. #18
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbr1
    I'm not averse to different - change is good. In any case, I think the idea of a "Klipsch sound" isn't particularly accurate any more. When Stereophile reviewed the RB-15 a few years ago they didn't note that it was overly forward or bright or "in your face." in fact they noted a bit of a lack of upper end shimmer. They thought it a worthy peer to the Atoms and the Alphas of the world. And I think our little (and old) Boston HD 5s sound reaaly nice for what they are, so I don't think my ears have been "tainted."

    I am also fully aware that none of these smallish bookshelves can match Klipsch in the efficiency department, but I suspect that the same volume can be attained but the receiver will just have to work a little harder. Efficiency is one of the main reasons I'm not really thinking about a power hog like Aperion - I just don't have the power to do them justice.
    I've always thought of Klipsch as having a distinct sound. I've also thought of them as one of the few consumer grade speakers that can "rock out" (i.e. continous SPL's over 100dB) without either falling apart, or causing your gear to fall apart. They sold the heck out of them at BestBuy several year ago and I did get to hear them, if not in a properly setup HT though.

    I hate to say it but I'm pretty sure your going to miss them, especially if you go to a small bookshelf and don't upgrade your sub.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I would also consider these over the primus 162's (we own a pair of infinity 160's)

    Boston CS26's http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BOCS26

    NHT Absolute Zero's http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHTAZ I listened to these head to head with the Paradigms and it was no contest. My friend and I thought that the NHT's sounded better and smoother than the Paradigms with better bass.

    PSB Image B4's http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMB4

    PBS B-15's http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMB15

    PSB B-25's http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMB25

    I would also take this Infinity Beta 20 over the Primus. I like the sound of the Beta's for their price range.
    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...069&CatId=4598


    IMHO, these are all much better than the Infinity's and the look better than the 162's with that funky new grill they put on them. Out of this group, the NHT's and Boston's will have the warmest sound, then the Infinity beta. The Others tend to slightly lean to the bright side of neutral.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    I've always thought of Klipsch as having a distinct sound. I've also thought of them as one of the few consumer grade speakers that can "rock out" (i.e. continous SPL's over 100dB) without either falling apart, or causing your gear to fall apart. They sold the heck out of them at BestBuy several year ago and I did get to hear them, if not in a properly setup HT though.

    I hate to say it but I'm pretty sure your going to miss them, especially if you go to a small bookshelf and don't upgrade your sub.
    The line available at BB was the the Synergy line and that may well have had more of the horn (horny?) character. I always thought that the Reference line sounded quite a bit better and more refined. Which is why I got what I did, I suppose. I certainly don't want to make a decision I regret making. Good point about the sub.

  21. #21
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    Hello MCBR1

    Quote Originally Posted by mcbr1
    So let's throw a couple of downsized options out there. Pick your fave and tell my why. These will be the mains that I build around and they will be mounted close to the wall on shelves, most likely.

    PSB Alpha b1

    Paradigm Atom v.6

    Infinity Primus P162

    Klipsch RB-51/61

    Aperion Intimus 5B

    anything else in the realm of budget audiophiledom that I should consider?
    I must preface my recommendation first with a little history of my speaker purchases since about 2001 or 2002 to the present. I bought into the PSB Image line.. 4T, PSB 1B, PSB 8C. Energy Connoisseur line..C-1, CR-1, CCR-1. Mirage Nanosat 5.0 system ($250.00 with free shipping). I also have purchased by the pair, Usher S-520's, Nola Mini's, Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's, Kef IQ3's and the most recent purchase being the Mordaunt-Short Avant 902i's.

    I literally gave away all of the above speakers except for the Nola Mini's, Mordaunt-Short, and Mirage Nanosats. Now here is the short version...the M.S. speakers are the best speaker I have ever owned, period. You don't have to believe me but do yourself a favor and read the reviews.

    Read the reviews of M.S. products at http://www.mordauntshort.com/default.php

    To reply to your challenge....here it is.

    MORDAUNT SHORT Ms300 5 Piece Speaker Package Maple
    Our Price:$349.99

    MORDAUNT SHORT Avant 902i Bookshelf Speakers
    $225.00/pair

    I bought the 902i's online from
    http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php

    Good luck with your research and your shopping.

    LeRoy

  22. #22
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    Don't forget Crutchfield as well as other online retailers offer a 30 day return. Perhaps a listen is in order while you still have the Klipsch.

    Just my personal taste, in comparing Boston to Paradigm I preferred Paradigm. Haven't heard PSB. NHT do have a good rep but are there product still in stock as they have taken a break from producing anything?

    I hooked a pair of Klipsch towers to a Krell integrated one time and they did more than "fall apart". Of course, those two aren't typically paired together. It caused me to lose some respect for the line though.

  23. #23
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    Hi LeRoy,
    The 902is certainly seem like a good buy. Tell me about you music preferences and your listening habits. What are you using the 902is for? What's driving them?

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeRoy
    I must preface my recommendation first with a little history of my speaker purchases since about 2001 or 2002 to the present. I bought into the PSB Image line.. 4T, PSB 1B, PSB 8C. Energy Connoisseur line..C-1, CR-1, CCR-1. Mirage Nanosat 5.0 system ($250.00 with free shipping). I also have purchased by the pair, Usher S-520's, Nola Mini's, Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's, Kef IQ3's and the most recent purchase being the Mordaunt-Short Avant 902i's.

    I literally gave away all of the above speakers except for the Nola Mini's, Mordaunt-Short, and Mirage Nanosats. Now here is the short version...the M.S. speakers are the best speaker I have ever owned, period. You don't have to believe me but do yourself a favor and read the reviews.

    Read the reviews of M.S. products at http://www.mordauntshort.com/default.php

    To reply to your challenge....here it is.

    MORDAUNT SHORT Ms300 5 Piece Speaker Package Maple
    Our Price:$349.99

    MORDAUNT SHORT Avant 902i Bookshelf Speakers
    $225.00/pair

    I bought the 902i's online from
    http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php

    Good luck with your research and your shopping.

    LeRoy

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Don't forget Crutchfield as well as other online retailers offer a 30 day return. Perhaps a listen is in order while you still have the Klipsch.

    Just my personal taste, in comparing Boston to Paradigm I preferred Paradigm. Haven't heard PSB. NHT do have a good rep but are there product still in stock as they have taken a break from producing anything?

    I hooked a pair of Klipsch towers to a Krell integrated one time and they did more than "fall apart". Of course, those two aren't typically paired together. It caused me to lose some respect for the line though.
    I might have to do this. Hopefully shipping won't be a deal killer. When I tried to listen to the P162, the store would only issue store credit if you brought them back. So I didn't buy them.

  25. #25
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    NHT is back in business after down sizing. I found the Paradigm Atoms weak and anemic. Little bass and too shrill.

    I havent heard the Mordant 's but the get very good reviews.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

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