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  1. #51
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    10 watts are ideal for 91 db speakers and with headroom to spare. You can reach 96 dbs in a 20X15 listening room with 92 db speakers driven by 2.5 watts.

    All watts are not created equal as there are over 10 times the dynamic range in the first watt than in the second.

  2. #52
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just worried about the quality of sound. When I've run 89db speakers off of 15W or 5W or 16W tube or D-amps sometimes issues come up. Highs can be thinner than normal - bass can lack punch - or other things. I believe in low watts if that is what the speaker is designed for - but it if isn't - why try to fit the wrong foot in the shoe?

  3. #53
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam View Post
    I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just worried about the quality of sound. When I've run 89db speakers off of 15W or 5W or 16W tube or D-amps sometimes issues come up. Highs can be thinner than normal - bass can lack punch - or other things. I believe in low watts if that is what the speaker is designed for - but it if isn't - why try to fit the wrong foot in the shoe?



    Adam the bass of the RS6's when driven by the Krell is incredible. Assuming the AntiCables in use. I have a childhood friend who always claimed he did not like loud music. I put in the Black Eyed Peas END and he was surprised by the sound. Having the remote in hand I slowly turned up the volume. He continued to be amazed. He said he did not realize how loud we were listening until I stopped the cd. I do not think he had ever heard a low noise and distortion system before. I have heard some of his budget stereo's. He was used to distortion and noise when music was played loud. The power of the Krell certainly controls the drivers. Bass is strong, tight and rhythmic and I think it takes watts and current to keep the woofers under control.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
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  4. #54
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Adam the bass of the RS6's when driven by the Krell is incredible. Assuming the AntiCables in use. I have a childhood friend who always claimed he did not like loud music. I put in the Black Eyed Peas END and he was surprised by the sound. Having the remote in hand I slowly turned up the volume. He continued to be amazed. He said he did not realize how loud we were listening until I stopped the cd. I do not think he had ever heard a low noise and distortion system before. I have heard some of his budget stereo's. He was used to distortion and noise when music was played loud. The power of the Krell certainly controls the drivers. Bass is strong, tight and rhythmic and I think it takes watts and current to keep the woofers under control.
    I can believe that. If I had had the option to try the RS6 with a amplifier that had the control over the low end - like say Krell - or in my current case the AN211 (though 16W would probably not be enough in this case) it could have been a much different story for my ears. Except - the more none metal tweeters I hear, at least in the entry level price range, the more happy I am not to have any in my home at the moment.

    At the moment though I'm considering a pair of M 1.7.... so IDK what that says.

  5. #55
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam View Post
    I can believe that. If I had had the option to try the RS6 with a amplifier that had the control over the low end - like say Krell - or in my current case the AN211 (though 16W would probably not be enough in this case) it could have been a much different story for my ears. Except - the more none metal tweeters I hear, at least in the entry level price range, the more happy I am not to have any in my home at the moment.

    At the moment though I'm considering a pair of M 1.7.... so IDK what that says.

    You might want to ask Paul for a sample of AntiCables to test. I am so surprised and cannot possibly explain why the AC's removed all my previous complaints about the metal drivers of the RS6's.

    I went from trying to like the speakers after several months to finally loving them.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  6. #56
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    In my book 91 db speakers are pretty dang efficient. My Frugal Horns Mk3s are 93 db and they'll reach 100 dbs without distortion with only 2.5 watts. While the Frugals also sound good with my friend's 200 watt Classe power amp, the 2.5 watt SET has the better first watt. With 91 db speakers you have the opportunity of hearing what's happening in that first watt ( where the inner detail resides ) because you can attain a listening level with that single watt. What you choose to produce that first watt makes all the difference.

  7. #57
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    The RS6's are back in the closet and the OML1's are in use. The RS6's never developed the complaints I had about them in the past. I found I was missing the sound of the OML1's. I am going to set the RS6's in my dogs bedroom and try them with the Onkyo A9555 class D integrated amp. I do not know why I have never tried this combination.

    As good as the RS6's were sounding something must have still been wrong to my ears to make me miss the OML1's. Once I fire up the OML1's I notice the flow of the music and with the RS6's I notice fast transients. I think they are both good speakers for the same list price but I now know I am more of a rhythm and flow fan than a fast transient fan.

    I almost think the RS6's would sound good with a tube amp. I am curious how they will sound with the class D Onkyo. My complaints other than a lack of flow and rhythm came from using the AQ Slates. Once they were replaced the system improved. My dream speaker may be one that combines the best of both.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  8. #58
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    The RS6's are back in the closet and the OML1's are in use. The RS6's never developed the complaints I had about them in the past. I found I was missing the sound of the OML1's. I am going to set the RS6's in my dogs bedroom and try them with the Onkyo A9555 class D integrated amp. I do not know why I have never tried this combination.

    As good as the RS6's were sounding something must have still been wrong to my ears to make me miss the OML1's. Once I fire up the OML1's I notice the flow of the music and with the RS6's I notice fast transients. I think they are both good speakers for the same list price but I now know I am more of a rhythm and flow fan than a fast transient fan.

    I almost think the RS6's would sound good with a tube amp. I am curious how they will sound with the class D Onkyo. My complaints other than a lack of flow and rhythm came from using the AQ Slates. Once they were replaced the system improved. My dream speaker may be one that combines the best of both.
    What truly puzzles me in the months I've followed your various threads about going back and forth between preferring the Monitor Audios or the OML 1's is: why does your dog have a bedroom?

    That issue aside, I think your problem is probably just that you've outgrown the $1K price range for speakers... I'm sure both the RS6 and OML 1 are excellent speakers in their own rights, but maybe it's time you start saving for the next level... I'm sure your electronics are good enough to handle anything up to at least $5K... So you could get speakers that combine the best of both the OML 1 and the RS6 and then some...

  9. #59
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    What truly puzzles me in the months I've followed your various threads about going back and forth between preferring the Monitor Audios or the OML 1's is: why does your dog have a bedroom?

    That issue aside, I think your problem is probably just that you've outgrown the $1K price range for speakers... I'm sure both the RS6 and OML 1 are excellent speakers in their own rights, but maybe it's time you start saving for the next level... I'm sure your electronics are good enough to handle anything up to at least $5K... So you could get speakers that combine the best of both the OML 1 and the RS6 and then some...


    I had a rescue human for 13 months and when he left it just made sense that the dog I rescued would take over that room. His room has the en suite. When he developed a back strain I bought him a cute Ottoman he could use to get up on his bed easier. He has the room but I have the large walk-in closet in the room.

    I agree that one day I need to pry open the wallet and invest in some new speakers. In the old days when I had the time and audio stores were plentiful I would spend weeks auditioning speakers. Sadly that is very difficult these days. I would need to be very sure before I spent big money. The size of my room is also limiting.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  10. #60
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    What truly puzzles me in the months I've followed your various threads about going back and forth between preferring the Monitor Audios or the OML 1's is: why does your dog have a bedroom?

    That issue aside, I think your problem is probably just that you've outgrown the $1K price range for speakers... I'm sure both the RS6 and OML 1 are excellent speakers in their own rights, but maybe it's time you start saving for the next level... I'm sure your electronics are good enough to handle anything up to at least $5K... So you could get speakers that combine the best of both the OML 1 and the RS6 and then some...
    Yeah...I wondered about the dog as well.

    And I think you are correct as well about JM and moving up in speaker... I know I am in the market for new speakers as my Canton, Nola's and Paradigm Mini Monitors are not doing the Job any more. All it took was a listen to some good Canton's and Revels in the $3k all the way to $12K for me to get spoiled.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  11. #61
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    And I think you are correct as well about JM and moving up in speaker... I know I am in the market for new speakers as my Canton, Nola's and Paradigm Mini Monitors are not doing the Job any more. All it took was a listen to some good Canton's and Revels in the $3k all the way to $12K for me to get spoiled.
    Yep, that's essentially the problem I'm faced with as well... I prefer towers to monitors and all the towers I really like are in the 4K+ range (by the time I take into account shipping and custom duties - a $4K speaker can cost anywhere from $6K to $8K)...

  12. #62
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    Yep, that's essentially the problem I'm faced with as well... I prefer towers to monitors and all the towers I really like are in the 4K+ range (by the time I take into account shipping and custom duties - a $4K speaker can cost anywhere from $6K to $8K)...


    If I get serious about spending more than $2,000 on a pair of speakers I would need to do a lot of auditioning. I guess $1,000 is my comfort point about buying speakers with short auditions. If I spend $2,000 or more I would need to be sure I could happily live with them for a number of years.

    Maybe my next vacation should be in a city with a number of audio shops where I can audition speakers. I do live fairly close to a store that sells 3A's which I like. I can also hear some B&W's that I have not heard is a long time. Two hours from home I could hear the Devore line of speakers. I think I hear the OML1's sounding better all the time.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  13. #63
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Not only do I have my own bedroom I shed on his couch. Trying to take a nap and he is playing Mahler again. After I took him on a two hour walk I thought he would let me rest.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Monitor Audio RS6-corky-001-smaller.jpg  
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  14. #64
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    If I get serious about spending more than $2,000 on a pair of speakers I would need to do a lot of auditioning. I guess $1,000 is my comfort point about buying speakers with short auditions. If I spend $2,000 or more I would need to be sure I could happily live with them for a number of years.

    Maybe my next vacation should be in a city with a number of audio shops where I can audition speakers. I do live fairly close to a store that sells 3A's which I like. I can also hear some B&W's that I have not heard is a long time. Two hours from home I could hear the Devore line of speakers. I think I hear the OML1's sounding better all the time.
    Yep.... Unless you have a lot of disposable income, the last thing you'd want is to invest in a $5K pair of speakers and then end up cycling them in and out of the closet with the RS6's and OML 1's... You really want to pick something that will provide you musical satisfaction for a long time...

  15. #65
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    Yep.... Unless you have a lot of disposable income, the last thing you'd want is to invest in a $5K pair of speakers and then end up cycling them in and out of the closet with the RS6's and OML 1's... You really want to pick something that will provide you musical satisfaction for a long time...

    Yes I would have to be sure before dropping that much money. I do think if I had to choose between speakers the OML1's are closer in sound to my ideal.

    Not only do I switch speakers I also switch IC's. Last night I replaced the DNM Reson IC's with the Alphacore Triode Quartz 2 IC's. If I switch speakers I need to remember to switch IC's. TQ2's with the OML1's and the DNM's with the RS6's. The speakers sound best with the right IC's.

    I find the AntiCables to be very revealing of changes in the rest of the components. It is easier to tell the difference in IC's and in various tweaks. The Sound Improvement Disc for the cd player is a great tweak that minimizes laser scatter through the disc. Less scatter and the error correction does not have to make as many corrections. I have used it off and on in the past but now I hear the benefits all the time.

    As I have reduced noise using filtering and vibrations with better equipment rack and speaker stands I can hear changes more easily. I am very happy with the sound using my current combination of components. I am going to not change a thing for the month of December and evaluate my system at the end of the month. I think then I will know what I need or that I need to stop making changes and enjoy what I have. Is there a tweakers anonymous? I need a sponsor.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  16. #66
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    Had a pair gave to my X, blowed the tweeters. Good speakers though. Not for my field though. Had to go back to old school'

  17. #67
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    Yep, that's essentially the problem I'm faced with as well... I prefer towers to monitors and all the towers I really like are in the 4K+ range (by the time I take into account shipping and custom duties - a $4K speaker can cost anywhere from $6K to $8K)...
    Ajani...I got an invite from a audio buddy to come and take a listen to Revel Salon2s today. They will be paired with Levinson No. 433, and maybe No. 532H a little later. I was also offered to try out a pair of Revel Performa M22's. Its going to be a fun Christmas round here. The new Canton Ventos will soon be using the ceramic tweeter like the Canton Reference series...and the SL series will be more like the Vento series only in a lesser cabinet.....Gotta go and pick Mr. Peabody, let him share in the fun.

    Cheers....
    Last edited by frenchmon; 12-21-2011 at 05:07 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  18. #68
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Since I moved the RS6's closer together with less toe-in the sound is more balanced. Instead of the tweeters pointing at my ears they converge further back from my sitting position. Soundstage is not as large but imaging is better and highs are airier off axis. Until I have time to shop I am going to work with them for the best sound they can give. I do enjoy the deeper bass over the OML1's.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  19. #69
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I am finished trying to find musical happiness with the RS6's. Today I had plenty of time listening to them and I began to ask myself if I still liked music. I was wondering if I had lost interest when I was playing some of my favorite music through the RS6's. The notes were all there but I was enjoying them less. I bet they would do home theater quite well but music in a two channel system they do not cut it. I guess it is time to realize that I spent money on them but they are the wrong speakers for me and there is nothing I can do to make myself enjoy them. Other than the bass for annoying the students living in the apartment below they have no use.

    The OML1's are on their stands and the Emmerson Quartet is playing. The OML1's will keep you up late.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  20. #70
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Had to eat crow

    Several of you were right and I was wrong. Last night out of curiosity I removed the lower woofer from the cabinet. I now realize the problem with the sound is room resonances and not the cabinets. The RS6 is a well braced enclosure.

    When I had the woofer out I saw a brace above and below the lower woofer. The braces varied in the number and size of holes for internal air flow. They looked to be either 3/4 or 1 inch thick. The enclosure was lined with sheets of foam that were also fairly thick. The internal wiring looked to be serious cabling and not thin hook-up wires. All in all surprised by the quality considering the price.

    So for all the Monitor Audio fans they do make a well made cabinet.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  21. #71
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Just so you'd know....I enjoy your episodes and incident in your audio life and discovery. Thanks for letting me come alone on your journey.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  22. #72
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Just so you'd know....I enjoy your episodes and incident in your audio life and discovery. Thanks for letting me come alone on your journey.
    ??? Are you two having a secret audio affair that the rest of us are unaware of?



    (I suspect that was a typo, and you meant "come along")

    Seriously though, I think many of us appreciate the insight into another audiophile's journey...

    Maybe we should all start audio blogs to chronicle our adventures and misadventures in HiFi... Might make for some fun reading + we might be able to get tips from each other and avoid making each other's mistakes...

  23. #73
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    Several of you were right and I was wrong. Last night out of curiosity I removed the lower woofer from the cabinet. I now realize the problem with the sound is room resonances and not the cabinets. The RS6 is a well braced enclosure.

    When I had the woofer out I saw a brace above and below the lower woofer. The braces varied in the number and size of holes for internal air flow. They looked to be either 3/4 or 1 inch thick. The enclosure was lined with sheets of foam that were also fairly thick. The internal wiring looked to be serious cabling and not thin hook-up wires. All in all surprised by the quality considering the price.

    So for all the Monitor Audio fans they do make a well made cabinet.
    I'm sure us MA fans were already convinced that the speakers are well made... No need to eat too much crow (I'm sure we all enjoy a healthy serving of it on a regular basis in this hobby)...

    Well made or not, the fact remains that the speakers just don't do it for you, so it's time to put them on audiogon and find the right speakers for you...

  24. #74
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    LOL! Thanks for the correction.
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  25. #75
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    I've followed this thread with interest, for I also have RS6 speakers. What I have found is that these speakers are generally well-balanced and do most things well, be it Mozart or The Prodigy (I actually love both!).

    The RS6s are very fussy about positioning, and I find that the degree of toe-in is a compromise between imaging and bass response.

    There are two things that you could try: you could use sorbethane sheets or granite sheets under each speaker to see if that makes any difference to the sound. I couldn't tell from the photo if you use spiked feet directly into the floor through the carpet, but I'm not convinced that that actually works in most cases.

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