Magnolia Store on a 2k Budget???

[thekid]

Looking for a little help here.

It looks like I may come into a small sum and was looking to do a minor speaker upgrade.
I currently have an all Bose set up with 201's for the mains and a VCS-10 for the center. My immediate shopping area really does not have any high-end audio stores and I am not comfortable shopping for speakers over the internet.

My buying choices are pretty much limited to the big box stores BB and CC. The BB just recently opened a Magnolia store inside and so I was wondering if any of you who have some knowledge of what Magnolia stocks might give some advice/assistance with what I might be able to get there in the 2k range. I am sure this is not enough $ to make significant changes but I figured I might be able to upgrade my fronts and move the 201's to the rear. The WAF really leaned to the Vienna Accoustic's but it has been hard to audition anything since the store just opened and the foot traffic has been pretty high. The speakers would be powered by a Pioneer VSX-815.

Is this enough $ to even upgrade some of my speakers or would a be better off upgrading say the reciever?

Any suggestions short of turning this into the generic Bose bashing thread due to my existing equipment would be appreciated.

Thanks

[royphil345]

Hmmmm....

Do you have a sub? If not, that may be a place to start... Really makes any system using bookshelves more enjoyable IMHO. Especially for home theater.

The Pioneer should be pretty capable of sounding good if you stick to 8 ohm speakers on the efficient side. Won't bring out the best in true high-end speakers... Wouldn't spend a fortune on speakers... Probably wouldn't start over at this point on your budget either. Think you could get a nice improvement with a speaker upgrade.

The Viennas are nice... maybe not the best "bang for the buck" though. I've found having a center channel from the same series as your mains is pretty much a must. And matching surrounds are a plus. You could run out of cash pretty quickly buying Viennas. If you like them and can fit them into your budget... why not???

Many people like the Klipsch Reference Series and they're priced a little lower. Maybe give them a listen and see if they're your cup of tea...

Just don't "force" yourself to like anything because it's what the store carries. You're spending a significant amount of money. If you have any dislikes or doubts about the speakers you audition... don't pull the trigger. It will be worth your while to take a short road trip if necessary, and maybe audition some speakers you're completely crazy about.

[Woochifer]

I think you can do quite well at Magnolia on a $2k budget. It just comes down to what type of sound you're looking for. The Magnolia Home Theater stores inside Best Buy have a somewhat limited selection, but the options there are good and diverse enough to satisfy a decent cross-section of customers. Seems though that they are heavily into on-wall speakers.

If you want something aggressive, they carry Definitive Technology. If you want something more neutral, the Viennas are nice. If you want a relatively neutral line that's more affordable, they carry the Bostons. Magnolia also carries Martin Logan, but you receiver might have trouble powering more than two of them. They can also special order Sonus Faber, REL, Krell, and McIntosh speakers for you.

[royphil345]

I wasn't aware they sold Boston Acoustics. Worth an audition. Definitely an upgrade from the Bose IMO... Wouldn't be paying for much more speaker than you could get optimum performance from using a HT receiver. Your budget would go pretty far there...

Trust your ears though... Buy what sounds best to you...

[blackraven]

Just buy what sounds good to you at BB. Don't worry too much about the brand. The Magnolia stores sell some very nice equipment..If your looking for a nice sub, they sell the Mirage Omnisat S8 for about $299 and the much better Martin Logan Dynamo for $600 which I would put up against many subs costing hundreds more. Vienna acoustics, Definitive Tech and Boston Acoustics all make fine speakers. For 2K you can make big changes in your system. I would up grade your speakers now because you will get much more improvement in sound vs upgrading your receiver which could be done at a later date.
You should also consider upgrading your CD player if you are using a cheap one as this will help as well.
Good Luck!

[thekid]

I think you can do quite well at Magnolia on a $2k budget. It just comes down to what type of sound you're looking for. The Magnolia Home Theater stores inside Best Buy have a somewhat limited selection, but the options there are good and diverse enough to satisfy a decent cross-section of customers. Seems though that they are heavily into on-wall speakers.

If you want something aggressive, they carry Definitive Technology. If you want something more neutral, the Viennas are nice. If you want a relatively neutral line that's more affordable, they carry the Bostons. Magnolia also carries Martin Logan, but you receiver might have trouble powering more than two of them. They can also special order Sonus Faber, REL, Krell, and McIntosh speakers for you.

Thanks to all for the advice so far. I was in there today and the foot traffic before the "Big Game" just made it impossible to listen to anything. They were playing the Def Techs in the one show room and the Martin Logans in the other but I could not make any judgements because of the sales people giving their pitches.

Wooch- Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say the speakers are either "agressive" or "nuetral"? Bose speakers, and I assume most here would say the 201's fit this, are often described as having no high and no lows so does this put them closer to your definition of "neutral". I am not neccessarily unhappy with my Bose so maybe my tastes run close to neutral, not sure.

I have heard good things about the Boston's. In your opinion would you say there is a noticeable difference between my current Bose and the Boston's to justify the cost? I noticed the heavy amount of wall speakers that you mention and that is not an option. Do wall-mounts have to go on the wall to get the proper SQ or would putting them on stands be an option?

Roy-I have a Sony sub (see some of my previous posts) but I can see an upgrade there if I can keep within the budget and still upgrade my fronts.

I know some of you spend 2k just on accessories but for me it is a big deal because I tend to be more of budget equipment kind of guy. I appreciate your all's help/advice.

[blackraven]

There is no comparison between Boston and Bose. Boston is very much worth the money over the Bose. I'm a fan of Boston speakers. Are there better, definetly. But speakers are SO Subjective. If you have 2K to spend, and your really after audiophile sound vs home theater then buy as much speaker as you can! You can always upgrade your receiver and surround speakers later. My only concern with the Vienna speakers is that they are 4ohm. Is your receiver rated for 4ohm? I think that most Pioneer receivers are 6-8ohms if I remeber correctly. If its not, you can probably get buy with it as long as the speaks are not too demanding like Magnepans.

As far as neutral speaks go, I feel that a neutral speaker doesnt add anything to the sound. I wouldnt consider the bose 201-301 to be neutral, just junk. Many high end speakers have a neutral sound.

[royphil345]

I just don't think the Pioneer could do the Martin Logans justice. I could be wrong... I probably wouldn't try it myself... I'd want a smooooth preamp and beefy amplifier with those.

I've only heard the newer Bose bookshelves like yours at Best Buy. It's really hard to judge with their thin speaker wires and overly complex source setups... They sounded very different from Bose I've heard in the past that generally sounded smooth, but boring and uninvolving. Seems they did try to make them sound a little brighter and more exciting. Didn't do it for me though. The impression I got was that somehow they weren't smooth in the mids, usually the strong point of any smaller speaker. They had pretty good lows for a smaller speaker, but the highs, although clear and reasonably smooth, sounded 1-dimensional, slightly overdone and sort of detached from the rest of the music. The way the music was presented just didn't strike me as sounding "real". I would have to classify them as a more "aggressive" or "in your face" sounding speaker, but with a weakness in the mids and no "breath of life" in the highs. Of course, this could all just be based on a bad setup at Best Buy or wax in my ears... LOL I wouldn't choose them based on what I heard, but there are other speakers I'd classify as "aggressive" that I'd certainly consider.

For me... I would definitely consider the Bostons an upgrade. Preference in speakers is a personal thing though... You just have to listen and decide what you like. If you're still enjoying the Bose, why even upgrade at all just yet? If you must... I still think replacing the Bose with something else would be the best first move. Although... You might fall completely in love with the Martin Logans and want to upgrade electronics first in preparation... Just listen to gear, find out what you like, what your goals are... take the appropriate steps in the right direction as you can afford to...

I don't know what speakers you're seeing on the walls... Generally, don't buy a wall mount speaker if you're not going to mount it on a wall. There are wall mount brackets made for smaller bookshelf speakers. Don't know if you're seeing any bookshelves on wall mount brackets that would do fine (probably better) on stands.

[drseid]

If you want something aggressive, they carry Definitive Technology. If you want something more neutral, the Viennas are nice. If you want a relatively neutral line that's more affordable, they carry the Bostons. Magnolia also carries Martin Logan, but you receiver might have trouble powering more than two of them. They can also special order Sonus Faber, REL, Krell, and McIntosh speakers for you.

They may be "more neutral than DTs," but I personally find VA speakers anything but. When I auditioned them at *my* local Magnolia (inside my BB) they sounded overly warm (maybe even a tad dark), not very revealing and lifeless -- they *did* look very nice though. I might choose almost any other brand in their price range over them. That said, just like everyone else, I am just one person with my own set of preferences. I love some of the McIntosh speakers, but the ones I like cost 19K/pr. so I guess they are out. ;-) Sonus Faber also makes some nice speakers, but the Grand Piano floorstanders (the lowest cost ones that I find appealing) are out of your range as well, unfortunately, in the 3-4K/pr. range . In your price range based on the choices you have available, the DTs are probably a good bet (although if you *do* like the VA sound, then they are almost polar opposites of them, so maybe not).

---Dave

[thekid]

Again a big thanks to all for your advice so far.

I did not even think about the ohm issue with the Pioneer but any 4 ohm speaker is out at this time unless I upgrade the reciever. The Magnolia here carries a lot of Onkyo's and some Pioneer Elite's. My experience with my current Pioneer has been very positive. It might be tempting to upgrade the reciever now and that would open up more speaker choices if I am following what some of you are saying.

Royphil-I think your comments on the 201's are dead on. The sound is not terrible and is good for HT but when I am listening to music I am "aware" that I am listening to music through speakers if that makes any sense.

[royphil345]

Royphil-I think your comments on the 201's are dead on. The sound is not terrible and is good for HT but when I am listening to music I am "aware" that I am listening to music through speakers if that makes any sense.

Exactly the impression I got...

I believe the Pioneer has preamp outputs for all channels. You could also think about using it as a preamp / home theater processor and adding a separate, beefier amplifier for the main 2 channels... or all channels. Maybe someday replacing it with a higher-end home theater preamp / processor, using separate amplification all around, or stepping up to a receiver that may have a better sounding preamp section. Some of the speakers you're looking at would be better powered with a separate amp than the internal amp in just about ANY HT receiver.

I'm using a Harman Kardon receiver with a Carver A-760X amp powering the main 2 channels myself. Sounds great and the Carver will power just about any speaker in existence to it's full capacity without clipping. Also takes a little strain off of the receiver's power supply, improving sound from the center and rear channels.

[thekid]

Exactly the impression I got...

I believe the Pioneer has preamp outputs for all channels. You could also think about using it as a preamp / home theater processor and adding a separate, beefier amplifier for the main 2 channels... or all channels. Maybe someday replacing it with a higher-end home theater preamp / processor, using separate amplification all around, or stepping up to a receiver that may have a better sounding preamp section. Some of the speakers you're looking at would be better powered with a separate amp than the internal amp in just about ANY receiver.

I'm using a Harman Kardon receiver with a Carver A-760X amp powering the main 2 channels myself. Sounds great and the Carver will power just about any speaker in existence. Also takes a little strain off of the receiver's power supply, improving sound from the center and rear channels.

The Pioneer does has pre-amps for all channels. I do have a older Sony 2-channel reciever STR-AV47. Do you think I could run the Pioneer as a preamp for the Sony and keep the Pioneer for HT?

That would free up more $ to upgrade to just two speakers for 2-channel music that I might not be able to afford versus trying replace all speakers or a speaker/reciever upgrade on just 2k. I could live with the current Bose set-up for HT if I could get better speakers for music.

[royphil345]

I don't think you have to do that... Too messy...

Home theater would sound fine with some nice, new speakers in the front and the Bose in back. I would try to get a center channel that matches the mains if possible.

You're just going to have to try and limit your choices to something your receiver will drive well, or invest in better amplification (new receiver or external amp) as a first step instead.

[thekid]

I don't think you have to do that... Too messy...

Home theater would sound fine with some nice, new speakers in the front and the Bose in back. I would try to get a center channel that matches the mains if possible.

Thanks Royphil!!

You just opened my eyes a bit with your comments because my main issue with the Bose comes when listening to music which I do almost everyday for a short time versus HT which is usually reserved for the weekends.

I think it boils down to sitting down and finding the speakers I like and then seeing what my budget and current equipment allows me to do.

In the WAF Dept....My wife really liked the wood on the Vienna's because of our furniture and when I look at the wood build on the Boston Reference series I can see her liking the Boston's as well.

[Rock789]

please note: this post is my opinion, and others may have different opinions...
2-3 years ago, I auditioned many many boston speakers, because there were several bostons in my price range or slightly less...
every boston I auditioned seemed muddy in the midrange...
I also auditioned many many other speakers within a 2 hour radius of my house...
for about the same price of the boston, much better speakers may be found...
I highly suggest you travel to some audio stores to audition as much as possible...
whats your location, perhaps someone knows of stores close to you?

I would suggest the following 2 setups with your $2k price range much better than boston...
focal jm lab chorus 706 x4 = $1000
focal jm lab chorus cc700 = $500
for a total of $1500
or
focal jm lab chorus 714 x4 = $1600
focal jm lab chorus cc700 = $500
for a total of $2100

most audio stores will work with you on price if you purchase more than one pair....
so if you find a setup you enjoy costing $2400 at an audio store... tell them you want that setup for $2k and see what happens...
usually there is plenty of markup room in the price to bargin...

[pkats]

kid, whatever you do, try to get something home for a demo in your room and setup. The setups ( and sales people) at those BB stores are not great. Personally, I really like the VA Bach Grand but if you want to wake up the neighborhood these aren't for you. But they look great in a living room with lots of wood like mine and my wife really liked them - both sound and looks.

Another option, the guy at BB said they have a 3 yr no interest deal going now. So, if some payments are ok for you, put the speakers on this and use your cash for an amp upgrade ( or vice-versa). I am considering this myself with the VA speakers because I also need a new CDP.

Good luck.

[thekid]

kid, whatever you do, try to get something home for a demo in your room and setup. The setups ( and sales people) at those BB stores are not great. Personally, I really like the VA Bach Grand but if you want to wake up the neighborhood these aren't for you. But they look great in a living room with lots of wood like mine and my wife really liked them - both sound and looks.

Another option, the guy at BB said they have a 3 yr no interest deal going now. So, if some payments are ok for you, put the speakers on this and use your cash for an amp upgrade ( or vice-versa). I am considering this myself with the VA speakers because I also need a new CDP.

Good luck.

Rock-Thanks for the list. Not familiar with Focal but then again I am entering into a new price point for me.

Pkats- The VA's do look good and score high in the WAF dept as I said. I don't play my music loud in fact because I play my music before the rest of the family are up so the volume is so low that the sub never even kicks in. That is why whatever I get probably needs to have good bass for music because most of the time the sub probably won't be engaged.

[blackraven]

If your looking for a new receiver and are on a budget, check out the yamaha HTR5890 rated at 140wpcX7. Its $440 at www.butterflyphoto.com Then you would have about $1550 left to spend on speakers and have a decent receiver to drive some more demanding speakers. The HTR series use the same elctronics as the R series receivers but are made for retail stores like BB and CC. There are some differences in features however. It should be ok for ML's and VA speakers.

[Woochifer]

Wooch- Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say the speakers are either "agressive" or "nuetral"? Bose speakers, and I assume most here would say the 201's fit this, are often described as having no high and no lows so does this put them closer to your definition of "neutral". I am not neccessarily unhappy with my Bose so maybe my tastes run close to neutral, not sure.

I have heard good things about the Boston's. In your opinion would you say there is a noticeable difference between my current Bose and the Boston's to justify the cost? I noticed the heavy amount of wall speakers that you mention and that is not an option. Do wall-mounts have to go on the wall to get the proper SQ or would putting them on stands be an option?

The Def Techs tend to really pack a lot of punch in the bass and provide somewhat of a boost in the highs. I don't like them with most music I've tried with them, but it seems that classic rock that sounds optimal on the popular "west coast" speakers from the 70s (i.e., the vintage JBLs and their clones) sounds great with Def Techs.

The Bose 201s are far from what I would call neutral. They roll off the highs and have a lot of unevenness in the mids and lows. That's hardly what I would call neutral. Generally, a neutral speaker will not have a lot of huge swings in the frequency response. Plus, the 201s use that direct/reflecting design that magnifies the variations created by the wall reflections.

Bostons has made a lot of good speakers, but in recent years they've tweaked a lot with the tweeters and I don't know what changes they've made with their current series.

Rather than let me define how these different speakers sound like, it's best that you do your own listenings and find your preferences that way. Magnolia's range of speakers should give you some fairly noticeable contrasts. I doubt that you'll come away thinking that they all sound the same.

They may be "more neutral than DTs," but I personally find VA speakers anything but. When I auditioned them at *my* local Magnolia (inside my BB) they sounded overly warm (maybe even a tad dark), not very revealing and lifeless -- they *did* look very nice though. I might choose almost any other brand in their price range over them. That said, just like everyone else, I am just one person with my own set of preferences. I love some of the McIntosh speakers, but the ones I like cost 19K/pr. so I guess they are out. ;-) Sonus Faber also makes some nice speakers, but the Grand Piano floorstanders (the lowest cost ones that I find appealing) are out of your range as well, unfortunately, in the 3-4K/pr. range . In your price range based on the choices you have available, the DTs are probably a good bet (although if you *do* like the VA sound, then they are almost polar opposites of them, so maybe not).

Yup, the Viennas are indeed more neutral than the Def Techs, and might actually sound bright compared to a pair of the Bose 201s! They are on the warm side compared to a lot of other speakers, but as you noted, that comes down to preference.

In general, I don't like the Def Techs, especially the bipolar towers. They can make for some spectacular demos with action movies or a lot of classic rock, but otherwise they call too much attention to themselves with other music sources I've tried.

[thekid]

Thanks Wooch for clarifying the terms a bit.

I certainly plan on listening to as many of the speakers they offer as possible just need to wait for things to die down. The store is new and as I mentioned we do not really have anything I would classify as high-end around here so I guess they are really attracting a crowd.

[ski2xblack]

...I am not comfortable shopping for speakers over the internet.

...

Couple thoughts:
-Auditioning in stores is far less important than how speakers will sound in your own listening room, so an at-home audition is necessary regardless of what or where you buy.
-The internet/mail order business model will get you better quality and sound for the price, at least in principle. Tons of good stuff from internet only brands like av123, aperion, axiom, etc, which would compare favorably to anything at the same price point in the brick and mortar stores. In addition, the internet retailers have to bend over backwards to overcome the sort of customer service qualms you may have, and many do an excellent job at it.

You should overcome your fear and see what else is available outside the big box stores. It won't allow you to scratch the instant gratification itch, but it could save you a few ducats, allow you to get into a higher eschelon of gear, or both. Jus' sayin.

[Woochifer]

Couple thoughts:
-Auditioning in stores is far less important than how speakers will sound in your own listening room, so an at-home audition is necessary regardless of what or where you buy.

Yup, very true. But, demo room auditions are helpful for ferreting out the bigger differences between different speaker lines, and differentiating between the ones to investigate further and the ones to reject from the outset. Once you narrow down the options to the ones you like, then the home auditions I will agree are a must.

-The internet/mail order business model will get you better quality and sound for the price, at least in principle. Tons of good stuff from internet only brands like av123, aperion, axiom, etc, which would compare favorably to anything at the same price point in the brick and mortar stores. In addition, the internet retailers have to bend over backwards to overcome the sort of customer service qualms you may have, and many do an excellent job at it.

I would agree, but the caveat with mail order speakers is that, unless you know someone who owns them already, you have to buy them in order to hear them for the first time. And even if a company provides free shipping, that courtesy goes only one way. If you listen and find that you don't like the speakers, the return shipping is on your dime. No such upfront investment is needed to hear speakers at a retail store, or to borrow a demo unit for in-home audition, or even to buy something with a store's return guarantee.

I have a mail order subwoofer, but I ordered it knowing full well that if I chose to return the unit, it would cost me $80 for the two-way shipping charges.

You should overcome your fear and see what else is available outside the big box stores. It won't allow you to scratch the instant gratification itch, but it could save you a few ducats, allow you to get into a higher eschelon of gear, or both. Jus' sayin.

Keep in mind that for a lot of smaller metro areas, the big box stores are the only game in town. Or at least the only game within a two-hour drive. And with the Magnolia ministores migrating into Best Buy stores, they actually bring a much higher level of quality than many of these communities currently have available. The original poster's basically trying to ferret out his options now that Magnolia has opened in his town. Magnolia's far from the end-all, but they do provide new options that are otherwise unavailable in that town.

[ski2xblack]

Kid, if you're still checking this thread, I have a suggestion for you. My above post was meant to encourage you to keep your options open when shopping in order to maximize your performance/dollar ratio. I'm sure Magnolia has some good products to offer. And Wooch's comments on the drawbacks to internet shopping are absolutely true. But, if you are really considering spending $2K on speakers, which is no small investment by any means, and the only local option is Magnolia at BB, why not consider some higher performing alternatives available online? Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about:

http://www.mksoundstore.com/store/me...pid=285&step=4

A complete 5.1 setup composed of 5 identical M&K B-1600 satellites and a V1250SFX powered sub, all for $1750 USD, with free shipping. They are even offering added discounts for Valentine's Day of 20%, for a final price of $1400. Drawbacks: you have to purchase to try it out, you have to wait until it arrives, your amp may not have the juice for them (4 ohm impedance...but you just saved $600 you can devote to that part of the equasion), and you have to pay for return shipping if you don't like 'em (trust me, you will not want to return them, M&K speakers are bona fide high fidelity speakers). Advantages: you would be hard pressed to match it's performance with anything available at or near the same price as Magnolia's offerings, and I would bet that the M&K's would trounce almost anything they stock regardless of price. They would crush any of the Klipsh, Boston, DefTech, or Viennas mentioned up-thread.

Sorry for the plug, but as a counterpoint to Wooch's response I had to provide a concrete example of what one can get when willing to shop in cyberspace, and the link above represents a freaking ridiculous deal for equipment that any discerning audio addict would thoroughly enjoy. Just trying to help someone save a little dough.

Happy shopping!

[nightflier]

I was at my local BB/Magnolia store this weekend and you are right, they are on-wall heavy. If you're coming from the Bose world, then you probably associate on-wall with mediocre sound. Well, if there's one company that has done this right, it's Vienna. And it seems that they are blowing our their Schonberg series aluminum on-wall speakers because the company is discontinuing them in favor of black speakers. Here's what I would consider:

- Vienna Webern Speakers ($349.99 on sale) for front, rears and centers.

That's $1749.95 and would leave you with enough for the wall brackets. Since you're buying five of them, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to haggle a little on the brackets because those won't match the new black speakers and they need to get rid of them. Of course, they do come with their own stands, if you prefer to put then on a bookshelf.

Now since these speakers are on-walls and not made of nice wood, I'm going to guess you haven't auditioned them. Well if so, I have to tell you that they are amazing for $350 each. They are definitely not harsh or metallic sounding despite their metal construction. They are very even across the frequency spectrum, have great extension and surprisingly solid bass - they would definitely be a substantial upgrade from the Bose. Another plus is that they are reasonably easy to drive despite their 4 ohm rating (2.7-6 ohms, according to the sales rep. but fairly efficient).

Someone already mentioned the 3 year no interest offer, so you already know that. If you also consider the fact that these speakers will likely last 20 years or more (they are made of aluminum), that means they will look great even then because of their space-age look. And even if you don't currently own a flat screen, by all indications, some day soon you will.

Personally I think that the age of the box speaker is ending, despite their better sound. With on-walls, you are investing into the future. Considering how good these sound, this is a fantastic investment. I think these speakers are selling used on eBay/Audiogon for around $600 a pair, so at their current price, I don't think you could do better at BB.

[thekid]

Thanks to all for the updated info!!

Night-I will check out the Vienna's you mention. There maybe a WAF element here depending on how "metal" they look. The room walls are two-tone (red/cream) with furniture being light cherry and black so if the speakers are too bright the WAF will probably kill it. With wall mounts you normall would wire through the walls I assume which could be a factor as well but one I think I could handle.

Ski-I am actually going to travel out of town next week to the Orlando area on business and it looks like I will have some time so may be I can look up some local dealers there and expand my choices as you suggest. My intent though is to be able to listen to what I buy and the local area here is pretty much limited to the big box stores. There are two audio stores in the area but they are pretty much just into HT. One primarily carries Paridigm and the other Jamo which I grant you are some good speakers but what these stores want for them is above market price and they never offer sales or discounts. They pretty much make their money on the concept that they are high-end compared to the BB and CC stores in the area and charge you a premium. But now that I think about it I could probably audition some speakers there and then order them cheaper on-line if I find something I like. A practice I know some of you here probably do not like but I should not have to pay extra for these speakers IMO just because these people are the only game in town so to speak.