Looking for new speakers

[Billiam62]

Some background information to help you get me pointed in the right direction.

Will be using two different integrated amps. A Qinpu A3 which is an 8 ohm hybrid tube/solid state at 8.5 wpc. And I just bought a Topping TP 21 which is rated at 25 wpc at 4 ohms or 12 watts at 8 ohms.

Currently I have a pair of Mirage OM 10's that work great with the Qinpu but I had to box them up because I have a cat that likes to jump on them. Probably the black sock around it that it wants to climb. Until I can get into a house again and build a listening room that is cat free, I can't use these.

Also have a pair of Castle Conway 3's. The design of this speaker does not mesh with the Qinpu. Midrange is completely gone as the bass overwhelms everything. According to two friends with an engineering background in electronics, the problem is the damping factor of the speaker. I am going to see if the Topping will work with this pair. Arrives today and will try it out this weekend.

In the meantime I need to find a pair of speakers to use with the Qinpu amp. I want to avoid a forward sounding speaker or one that has a bright sound. I can still hear well above 20,000 khz on the high end and a speaker like the Klipsch will hurt my ears. Gave up my Heresy's for that very reason. I want something that is essentially neutral or that has a touch of warmth like Jamo speakers or the older Mirage lines. I won't get listening fatigue from these.

I just tried a pair of Jamo C603 bookshelf speakers and liked them very much. But... Bought them through Amazon and had to return them because one speaker obviously was damaged. Found pink specks of paint on the baffle and a blotch of glossy black paint on the cabinet when the speaker is all flat black. And it sounded like they had already been broken in. No manual either. Billed as new but they seemed to be used.

So, I am back to looking at some other speakers. I could try to order another pair of C603's since there are still some new and used pairs around. Another option is the C803 which appears to be an outstanding speaker for the money. Hard to find but still a pair shows up used or even new at times.

I auditioned the Phase Technology V-4 a few weeks ago and liked that speaker very much as well. While a tad less warm than the Jamo's it had the same wide sound stage and balanced instrumentation where no sonic characteristic over powered any other in the sound field. Very clean sound just like the Jamo's. It sounds like the new V-52 is the replacement for the V-4 but has a bit better bass section according to the manufacturer.

I've heard that the Martian Logan's Moshun 10 and 12 are out of this world for the close out prices. I've ruled out the 12 because the full front grill is likely to attract the cat and also the downward firing port is likely to be a problem for the Qinpu amp. The Castle Conway 3 has this same design and I think it leads to the damping factor that overwhelms the mid range. Not sure if the Motion 10 h as this same design but the front grill only covers the top half of the speaker and since the cat does not jump on the Conway 3 speakers which has a driver cover on the top half of the speaker, I think the design at least in terms of the outward appearance will be fine.

I could find a pair of Jamo E660's or E650's (both towers) used for next to nothing. Also could buy a pair of Jamo C605 towers used. Heard good things about all of these speakers. Not sure how heavy the bass is but I figure as long as they don't have the downward firing port (C603 is a rear port) then it should work OK.

Can I get some insight into any of these speakers from people that have owned them or at least have heard them and compared them to other speakers? Especially if matched with a tube amp. Or if anyone can recommend something else that I may have missed but should look into? Budget is around $400 to $500 a pair either for new or used. Got the C603's for less than $350 shipped and can find similar offers out there again. But I want to explore my options since I have to wonder if QC was the problem with that speaker or the Distributor that sent them to the Seller with Amazon.

Thanks. BTW. Will be using a traditional two speaker system for music, not home theater.

[Mr Peabody]

The Martin Logan are definitely out, they typically need high current or a powerful tube amp. I am also skeptical of Jamo these days they seem to be all over the place with their product from dirt cheap to whatever, you'd really need to know the line or a good rep to guide you to the models still of quality, and then, I'd wonder if the small tube amps could drive them to potential.

You have low power and pretty much need to stick with a high efficient speaker. Zu Audio will allow you a return policy, I found with my Conrad Johnson the Zu had extended high end but different than the Klipsch. You could look for a vintage Klipsch like the Forte that has a more refined sound compared to the Heresy. There are other high efficient speakers around but I'm not familiar with them all. I've yet to hear a high efficient speaker I'd call warm but it could exist. Audio Note also comes to mind in HE speakers but I can't speak to the sound of them.

Another option would be to look at something like the Golden Ear that has built in amplification for the bass and make for a light load for your tube amp. I've been told Sandy Gross the designer uses a 30 watt tube amp with his GE. This option would be my personal choice as I like a full bottom end and volume when I want it.

[Feanor]

...
Another option would be to look at something like the Golden Ear that has built in amplification for the bass and make for a light load for your tube amp. I've been told Sandy Gross the designer uses a 30 watt tube amp with his GE. This option would be my personal choice as I like a full bottom end and volume when I want it.

Are you talking about the Golden Ear Tritons? Surely their coverings make them prime cat bait .

[Billiam62]

Yes, those Tritons won't work. My budget is in the range of $400 to $500 a pair. I already spent a grand for the OM 10's and 2 grand for the Conway 3's. I just need something decent to tide me over for a year or two until I can build a listening room with a door to keep the cat out.

The OM 10 is a 6 ohm speaker with a 90 db sensitivity and it works fine with the Qinpu. In fact the sound is superior to that of the older Cambridge Audio Amp I had been using for a decade. And the C603's sounded excellent as well and they too were 6 ohm but with an 88 db sensitivity. Don't need to turn up the volume more than a quarter of the way with either speaker before it starts to get very loud.

[blackraven]

Consider a high efficiency design such as these tektons- model 65t and 81t. the 81t has a sensitivity of 95dB.

tekton-designcontent2011

Klipsch Heresy II''s in Oak mint condition with oak risers - and other extra's !!!!! | Full range | Camillus, New York 13031 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

These martin logans have a metal grill and are rated at 92dB-

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor

[Mr Peabody]

Aw, Feanor, I forgot about that.

Blackraven, despite the ML sensitivity they are a difficult load and the OP mentioned he disposed of a set of Heresy based on the sound.

I'd have to check the specs but you might look at the JBL Studio 530. The horn sounds nothing like Klipsch and there's a raving thread here on AR called "Oops I did it again".

[Mr Peabody]

Correction, the Martin Logan Motion may work, I've heard them pushed by one of the top end Yamaha receivers, so if his tube amp has the drive he says the ML could work.

[JohnMichael]

I was curious about the ML Motions due to the Heil style tweeter. The ML's are rated at 90 db efficiency. I really think the Studio 530's are great but are rated at 86 db efficiency.

[blackraven]

Actually the ML motions are rated at 92dB. He would definitely need a sub. They are rated down to 60Hz. Another speaker to consider would be a PSB Alpha B-1 and pair it with a sub. They are rated at 89dB but are easy to drive and can be had for $279pr and for even less if he bought B-stock from Saturday Audio at $240pr. They have a plastic grill.


PSB Alpha B1 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com


These infinity Beta's have a metal grill and were pretty nice sounding, much better than the current Primus line. They had a warmer fuller sound.

Infinity Beta 20 Bookshelf Speakers

specs- Infinity Beta™ 20 Bookshelf speaker at Crutchfield.com

[Billiam62]

Consider a high efficiency design such as these tektons- model 65t and 81t. the 81t has a sensitivity of 95dB.

tekton-designcontent2011

Klipsch Heresy II''s in Oak mint condition with oak risers - and other extra's !!!!! | Full range | Camillus, New York 13031 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

These martin logans have a metal grill and are rated at 92dB-

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor

MartinLogan - Motion 15 - Bookshelf Speaker-Audio Advisor

These suggestions are worth a look. Tomorrow I will hook up the little Topping T21 amp to the Castle speakers. If they sound good with this amp then I will only need one pair of speakers and can wait a few months or so to save some additional money to budget towards a better speaker.

Can't consider the Klipsch brand though since I owned Heresy's at one time and they were too bright for my ears. I never became accustomed to that sound and I always ended up with listening fatigue.

[Billiam62]

Aw, Feanor, I forgot about that.

Blackraven, despite the ML sensitivity they are a difficult load and the OP mentioned he disposed of a set of Heresy based on the sound.

I'd have to check the specs but you might look at the JBL Studio 530. The horn sounds nothing like Klipsch and there's a raving thread here on AR called "Oops I did it again".

Have not heard JBL's in many years. Last time was the L5 and L7 towers. Like both and they did not sound as bright as the Klipsch. Will look into this idea as well. Thanks.

[Mr Peabody]

JM, it's interesting what makes some speakers easy to drive and some not, the Harbeth are a popular speaker amongst those using tube gear and they are only like 84dB. I was at a shop that drove the Harbeth with a Leben tube integrated but when I wanted to hear the Totem with higher efficiency rating the guy switched to a Naim amp saying the Totem needed some current but explained the Harbeth were tube friendly. I've not heard the Studio's with tubes yet but Crutchfield offers a return policy. Granted though they aren't going to play all that loud at 86dB with just a few watts.

[LeRoy]

Or if anyone can recommend something else that I may have missed but should look into? Budget is around $400 to $500 a pair either for new or used. Got the C603's for less than $350 shipped and can find similar offers out there again. But I want to explore my options since I have to wonder if QC was the problem with that speaker or the Distributor that sent them to the Seller with Amazon.

Thanks. BTW. Will be using a traditional two speaker system for music, not home theater.

Hi Billaim62, I happen to own 2 Qinpu A-6000 integrated amps. The A-6000 easily drives my Dali Ikon 2 MK2's @86.5 db efficiency. The other A-6000 does not so easily drive a pair of System-Audio Aura 1's at 84 db efficiency.

I was looking at the Dali Zenzor 1 given the great reviews but they are too inefficient for the A3. Have a look at the Cambridge Audio S-30. I have purchased 3 pairs of these wonderful speakers and gave them as gifts to relatives as christmas gifts.

The C.A. speakers are great for the money and will surprise you with the quantity and quality of the bass while presenting a very good midrange and tweeter integration. I don't know if any speaker is really cat attack proof and have no idea why a cat would prefer one speaker over another but hey...the price is right down the path you are seeking to stay in. Read the reviews.

S30 Bookshelf Hi Fi Speakers

Good luck with your research and final decision.

[Billiam62]

Leroy. How bright is the S30? I've read some other reviews of this speaker and at least a couple of owners have mentioned the high end is a bit bright. Overall the reviews of this speaker are quite good though.

[LeRoy]

Leroy. How bright is the S30? I've read some other reviews of this speaker and at least a couple of owners have mentioned the high end is a bit bright. Overall the reviews of this speaker are quite good though.

I never found the speakers to be bright at all. The equipment I had them paired with were Belles Soloist Amp and Pre and also the Rega Brio 3. With regard to the source what was being utilized at the time, it was either the Musical Fidelity XRAY or the Stello Signature DAC and Stello Transport. If you are familiar with the Usher S-520 then it's in the ballpark, tonally, as the S-520.

One thing that the CA S-30 did catch my attention on when doing an a/b comparison to another speaker ( I forgot which brand/model I was comparing to) the C.A. is a little grainy but not terribly so. I did not hear the grain unless I was doing the a/b so it depends on the focus of the listener at the time?

By the way, for H.T. i utilize Mirage Omnisat 5.0 with a Rel R-528 sub and an antique Arcam AVR 200 receiver.

What kind of speaker wire and interconnects are you using?

[Billiam62]

I never found the speakers to be bright at all. The equipment I had them paired with were Belles Soloist Amp and Pre and also the Rega Brio 3. With regard to the source what was being utilized at the time, it was either the Musical Fidelity XRAY or the Stello Signature DAC and Stello Transport. If you are familiar with the Usher S-520 then it's in the ballpark, tonally, as the S-520.

One thing that the CA S-30 did catch my attention on when doing an a/b comparison to another speaker ( I forgot which brand/model I was comparing to) the C.A. is a little grainy but not terribly so. I did not hear the grain unless I was doing the a/b so it depends on the focus of the listener at the time?

By the way, for H.T. i utilize Mirage Omnisat 5.0 with a Rel R-528 sub and an antique Arcam AVR 200 receiver.

What kind of speaker wire and interconnects are you using?

AudioQuest Type 4 speaker cable. Golden Gate Interconnects.

Just spent a few hours listening to the Conway 3's with the little Topping T21 amp. Thankfully the speakers sound good again. But... I noted this amp will more easily drive a 4 or 6 ohm speaker than 8 ohms which is what the Conway's are. Thus, I had to turn up the volume knob to about halfway just to get a fairly decent level of audio to listen to. At least my midrange is back with this amp and I can get by with this pairing for a while until I can buy a 4 or 6 ohm speaker to match up with this amp. Since the Qinpu is 8 Ohm, either another 6 ohm or an 8 ohm speaker will work fine.

[Billiam62]

Leroy. What is your opinion of the S70 tower? It is 8 ohm and should work fine with the Qinpu. Reviews seem quite good and the only concerns expressed by a couple of people seems to be making certain you use a good amp.

[Billiam62]

Aw, Feanor, I forgot about that.

Blackraven, despite the ML sensitivity they are a difficult load and the OP mentioned he disposed of a set of Heresy based on the sound.

I'd have to check the specs but you might look at the JBL Studio 530. The horn sounds nothing like Klipsch and there's a raving thread here on AR called "Oops I did it again".

I just did a little digging on the JBL 530 and yes, it is getting rave reviews from virtually everyone that either owns a pair or has listened to them. Since I can still hear well over 20,000 khz on the high end this speaker might be exactly what I am looking for since it is not at all harsh like the Klipsch horn tweeters. Wish I could afford the 570 towers.

Tomorrow I am going to hook up the Mirage OM 10's for a few minutes to the Topping TP21 amp to see how well it will drive a 6 ohm speaker. It does not do very well with the 8 Ohm Castle Conway's but if it adequately drives the OM 10's then it might work with both the Qinpu and Topping amps despite the lower sensitivity rating.

[LeRoy]

AudioQuest Type 4 speaker cable. Golden Gate Interconnects.

I am not familiar with G.G. I.C.s but am familiar with A.Q. You happy with the cables?

[LeRoy]

Leroy. What is your opinion of the S70 tower? It is 8 ohm and should work fine with the Qinpu. Reviews seem quite good and the only concerns expressed by a couple of people seems to be making certain you use a good amp.

You would have to ask me that..lol...Okay, I have heard the S70's over a several month period being driven by C.A. integrated and Belles amplification. I have heard the S70's in different environments too, living rooms, audio show rooms, dens. I have never enjoyed listening to the S70 regardless of which electronics were behind them. This included high end CDP's like Lektor CDP-7T and Naim Uniti.

Long story short, I would not ever consider the S70.

[Billiam62]

I am not familiar with G.G. I.C.s but am familiar with A.Q. You happy with the cables?

Golden Gate is an AQ interconnect. Just a notch above the Nevergreen. Yes, I am pretty pleased with both cables. Initially tried the Copperhead interconnect but that seemed to mute certain mid range frequencies. Golden Gate reduces the muddy and boomy bass in problem recordings. Type 4 seems to offer a bit more clarity than regular speaker wire.

[Billiam62]

You would have to ask me that..lol...Okay, I have heard the S70's over a several month period being driven by C.A. integrated and Belles amplification. I have heard the S70's in different environments too, living rooms, audio show rooms, dens. I have never enjoyed listening to the S70 regardless of which electronics were behind them. This included high end CDP's like Lektor CDP-7T and Naim Uniti.

Long story short, I would not ever consider the S70.

Thanks. Reviews are mixed on that model and based upon what you've said I won't consider it.

[Billiam62]

Leroy. Another question.

If I get bookshelf speakers instead of towers I will likely purchase a subwoofer. Probably going to be the NHT Super 8.

How do you hook this up to the Qinpu? The manual says to hook up a subwoofer to the 1/8 '' Output and the speakers to the Speaker Outputs. Would this not give you bass out of all three speakers? I have no experience with subwoofers but it seems to me that the speakers should be wired into the subwoofer to take advantage of the cross over that can cancel out the low end in the bookshelf speakers.

[LeRoy]

Leroy. Another question.

How do you hook this up to the Qinpu? The manual says to hook up a subwoofer to the 1/8 '' Output and the speakers to the Speaker Outputs. Would this not give you bass out of all three speakers? I have no experience with subwoofers but it seems to me that the speakers should be wired into the subwoofer to take advantage of the cross over that can cancel out the low end in the bookshelf speakers.

The Qinpu A-6000 came with a sub-woofer y-connector. I have never considered hooking up a sub to the QA6000. If you were looking to use a sub and hook up directly to the Q speaker posts I suppose that would work but would first check with Q and see if that would cause harm to the A3.

The Rel sub has the Neutrik connector:
Neutrik Speakon, RCA low level input, .1/LFE input with separate volume control

The Rel's are pricey but so musical.

I used to own a Velodyne VX-10 which is now updated to the VX-11
Velodyne VX-11 10 inch Subwoofer

Great value on the VX-11.

[Billiam62]

The Qinpu A-6000 came with a sub-woofer y-connector. I have never considered hooking up a sub to the QA6000. If you were looking to use a sub and hook up directly to the Q speaker posts I suppose that would work but would first check with Q and see if that would cause harm to the A3.

The Rel sub has the Neutrik connector:
Neutrik Speakon, RCA low level input, .1/LFE input with separate volume control

The Rel's are pricey but so musical.

I used to own a Velodyne VX-10 which is now updated to the VX-11
Velodyne VX-11 10 inch Subwoofer

Great value on the VX-11.

Thanks. Finally making some headway as far as determining what kind of speakers to buy when I am ready.

On a whim I decided to swap out the Type 4 cable with the old spade lugs with some regular RS speaker wire. Suddenly the audio level has increased substantially and the Castle's sound every bit as good, it not better on the Topping TP 21 than they did when I used them with the Cambridge Audio amp. My guess is the spade lugs are not fitting either the amp or speakers properly. Thankfully I won't have to waste my time taking the OM 10's out of the boxes for a few minutes to test the audio level of the system.

With some bookshelf speakers I will need a subwoofer. If I repurchase the Jamo C603 I may not if I position them correctly. They had some very nice, clean but strong bass for a speaker of that size. But when I listened to the Phase Technology V-4 in a local showroom, it was evident, regardless of where I placed the speakers that the bass was weak and it would require a subwoofer. Since I have not auditioned bookshelf speakers in decades, it will be trial and error during the listening process or if I purchase ear unheard via an online seller such as Amazon, Vann's, Crutchfield, etc. Since the area where I presently live doesn't have squat for stereo equipment these days (non home theater use) I doubt I can easily find what I want in the local area.

In light of this morning's events, I will now only need one pair of speakers for certain and can wait a couple of months to purchase. By that time I will probably be able to spend at least $500 or a little more if I desire on a better speaker if one of the sub $500 pairs don't suit me. And now I can consider an 8 ohm speaker because it should work just fine with the Topping amp in addition to the Qinpu.