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  1. #1
    JSE
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    Lookin for some Bookshelf speakers, but here is the catch!

    I am getting ready to complete my Pool Room and I have convinced the wife that we need a simple audio system in there to enjoy while playing pool. I have the receiver and CD player but I need help creating a list of speakers to audition. The wife does not want a Sub in the room so I am looking for some Bookshelf speakers with "some" or "better" low end. I have so far listend to the B&W DM602 S3 and CM2. I liked the 602 better for this purpose. I plan on auditioning Dynaudio, Energy, Mirage and some others.

    Are there some specific Bookshelf speakers out there that would fit the bill? The room is about 18 x 14 with 8ft. ceiling. Budget is about $500ish. The speakers would be run through a older Onkyo higher end A/V receiver. I am not looking for audio bliss with these speakers, just some good "lively: sound. Remember, people will be playing pool and probably consuming beer while listening, not focussing on soundstage, imaging, etc.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? Again, I am just trying to create a list so I can narrow down my search. I will probably buy withing the month.

    Thanks,

    JSE

  2. #2
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    I would check out used speakers on audiogon or eBay. You never know what you may find. For new ones, the Odyssey Epiphony goes for $595 a pair or Onix Rocket RS250 for $440 plus shipping. The nOrh Classic 6.1 or SM 5.1 come in at $500 delivered or the Magnepan MMG go for $550 delivered.

  3. #3
    F1
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    .. The wife does not want a Sub in the room so I am looking for some Bookshelf speakers with "some" or "better" low end. ...
    You may also consider Polk LSi 9. Nice treble with more bass for a bookshelf according to a dealer. Good luck.

  4. #4
    cam
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    First I will admit that I am a paradigm fan having had many paradigm speakers in the past so I know them best. I can't honestly say one way or another on other brands. Having said that you might want to take a listen to the monitor 3's, it's pretty much a mini monitor but instead of a 6.5 inch woofer it has a 8 inch woofer. With the 8 inch woofer you will get some pretty good low end without a sub. Just remember for the best sound and bass try to get some stands that can be filled with sand. While you are sampling out speakers just for fun take a listen to the new paradigm studio 20's, they might make you want to upgrade right off the bat.

  5. #5
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    also try the polks rti6 with a 6 1/2 mid and a silk dome tweet.
    The Furry White Poochundefined

  6. #6
    RGA
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    I wish people would read your actual circumstance. Some of these speaker suggestions are truly horrible for filling a bigger room with bass. The 602S3 is one of the most impressive standmounts available and can really hit hard for a standmount. While there are others like the Paradigm Studio 40 and Dynaudio's for your purposes with the bass required the 602S3 is the most sensible option for price and performance I can think of. You might even get away with the DM 303.

    By all means go and LISTEN to others - but I would have a feeling you'd come back to the 602S3 anyway.

  7. #7
    JSE
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    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the suggestions so far. Keep-em-comin. I will definitely check out the Polks and I have been very curious about the Rockets lately. I have never really been a fan of Paradigm speakers but I will listen to them as well. I might even try the Atnena AS-B2 bookshelf speakers. I have heard great things about them.

    RGA, I agree the 602s3 is going to be hard to beat. I really liked them alot. I will however be strong and resist the urge to plop down $600 or so on them without testing the waters first. You have listened to a ton of speakers. Have you ever listend to the Mirage Omni 50 or 60? The reviews I read seem to convey that they really fill a room with sound. I have not heard them yet. One thing I am worried about is having booksheld speakers within 3 or 4 feet of a Pool Table that will be about the same height. The Omni's "up-firing" driver may have an advantage here. or maybe it's not a factor. I will be making ome custom stands so I can make them what ever height I need. I have been remodeling our house and have lots of woodworking equipment so I figured I would design some cool stands.

    Anyway, thanks for the ideas so far.

    JSE

  8. #8
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    I dunno,

    Paradigm speakers get your attention but they become very tiring after a few hours. For that I want smooooth speakers for my next purchase.

    You would date Madonna but would you wanna live with her?

    just my 2cents

  9. #9
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    Huh...didja say sumthin...

    Quote Originally Posted by andrus
    I dunno,

    Paradigm speakers get your attention but they become very tiring after a few hours. For that I want smooooth speakers for my next purchase.

    You would date Madonna but would you wanna live with her?

    just my 2cents
    can't............................................. .................................................. ..stop............................................ .................................................. ...staring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Nice avatar sport.

    Where's my wife?

    OK, must focus for a sec...deep breaths...

    JSE, I've been auditioning standmounts in your price range (sorta) and currently have a pair of "on loan" Von Schweikert VR1's running in my br system.
    http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr1.html
    Even when pushed by an archaic 30 watt Marantz 2230, these are exceptional to my ears. Far superior to anything I have heard from Energy Veritas, Monitor Gold, JM Lab Chorus S, etc. and they even give my beloved CDM1NT's a serious run for the money. From what I can tell, the 1NT's, Studio 20 V.3's, and VR1's are like three scoops of vanilla, strawberry, and chocolate ice cream. They're all good just pick what you like. BTW, the 20 V.3 is markedly better than the V.2 in the treble and very impressive. That's a damn fine speaker. Where the VR1 trumps the other two however, and this is important for your application in particular, is that it's off axis response is simply phenonmenal. These things sound great no matter where you are in the room, they simply disappear. They are better off axis than the Paradigms and my B&W's, it's not even close. On axis, we get back to the ice cream parlor but as you'll be moving around a lot in your pool room, the off axis performance could be worth an audition. The cherry on top (anybody else gettin' hungry?) is they are rated down to 40Hz. This is accurate bass too, not sloppy like the Energy's. Outstanding bass performance, especially for a small standmount. You can find them on Audiogon for about $700.

    I haven't quite made up my mind yet but the VR1's have certainly set the bar.

    Good luck and give them a listen.

    Now if y'all excuse me...where is my wife?
    Last edited by topspeed; 03-03-2004 at 10:59 AM.

  10. #10
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    When one buys speakers..one should buy good ones since you never know where else you might want to use them..
    Dynaudio is my choice...Dynaudio 52 or 52SE(they go lower than the 52's)

    manek.

  11. #11
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    bookshelf speakers for long term satisfaction

    You might wish to audition some Linn Kans. While comparing with the other manufactures you have listed may be difficult at the same retailer, the Linn Kans are a VERY lively and accurate minimonitor, and VERY well made, roughly in the 500 dollarish range, if you can find a pair of demos--They require just a few good watts for great sound, and would benefit from better ancillary components down the road, should you decide to upgrade your source and amplification.

    Cheers,
    Tjames

  12. #12
    JSE
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    Thanks for the continued ideas. I took a long lunch today and listend to some energy and paradigm speakers. Look at the monitor series Paradigm and the Energy C3. Still did not like the Paradigm. Listened to the Studio 20 and it's nice but more than I really want to spend. I like the C3 but it did not really do anything special for me. The B&W 602S3 sounds better, hands down.

    On my way back to the office, I stopped at Tweeter. I was kindof curious about the Mirage Omni series bookshelf speakers. Mainly the Omni 50 and 60. They had the Omni 60. Wow! This speaker is really impressive. Bare in mind this was in a Tweeter Showroom but the speaker was very open and airy with good tight bass. The bass I think is on par with the B&W 602S3 or darn close. Also, I am not sure if this would actually help but, the drivers fire forward and up. This may help out being near a pool table that will be approx. the same height. The speakers really filled up the room at Tweeter. They sounded much better than the Saphires and the Bostons. The saphires sounded a bit shrill to me and really lacked in the lower end. The Bostons CR85, I think, sounded pretty good but not great. They seemed a little muffled and dull. I was able to run the Omni's on a Yamaha 1400, which I have, so that gave me a decent ref. Here's the kicker. They are on sale for $299 for the pair. Regular price is $600 for the pair. Actually the smaller 50 series is still $500 a pair.

    It's getting interesting. The B&W is still my favorite but for $300 less the Mirage is a very close second so far. Again, I am not going for critical listening here. Just good sound. I still want to listen to some more but the Mirage deal may be to good to pass up.

    JSE

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSE
    Thanks for the continued ideas. I took a long lunch today and listend to some energy and paradigm speakers. Look at the monitor series Paradigm and the Energy C3. Still did not like the Paradigm. Listened to the Studio 20 and it's nice but more than I really want to spend. I like the C3 but it did not really do anything special for me. The B&W 602S3 sounds better, hands down.

    On my way back to the office, I stopped at Tweeter. I was kindof curious about the Mirage Omni series bookshelf speakers. Mainly the Omni 50 and 60. They had the Omni 60. Wow! This speaker is really impressive. Bare in mind this was in a Tweeter Showroom but the speaker was very open and airy with good tight bass. The bass I think is on par with the B&W 602S3 or darn close. Also, I am not sure if this would actually help but, the drivers fire forward and up. This may help out being near a pool table that will be approx. the same height. The speakers really filled up the room at Tweeter. They sounded much better than the Saphires and the Bostons. The saphires sounded a bit shrill to me and really lacked in the lower end. The Bostons CR85, I think, sounded pretty good but not great. They seemed a little muffled and dull. I was able to run the Omni's on a Yamaha 1400, which I have, so that gave me a decent ref. Here's the kicker. They are on sale for $299 for the pair. Regular price is $600 for the pair. Actually the smaller 50 series is still $500 a pair.

    It's getting interesting. The B&W is still my favorite but for $300 less the Mirage is a very close second so far. Again, I am not going for critical listening here. Just good sound. I still want to listen to some more but the Mirage deal may be to good to pass up.

    JSE
    All that matters is what you perceive to be best. Some people Are suggesting speakers that are more than double what you're planning to spend. I am not a fan of the Mirage because it sounds totally innacurate to me...but perhaps it will have a much better room integration ability for you and when you factor in the price these are interesting things to consider. They have always been kinda of an outskirts company. The thing is They make a wide variety of very different speakers...to me that's not a good approach to speaker building...It's kinda like they can't stick to anything or even know what they want to do.

    I heard the OM 7 which has driver integration issues and if that's omnipolar you can keep it.

    The newer OMNI's may be a good bet and certainly seem to like wall bracketing...and they may be a terrific speaker - my auditions are simply, to put it bluntly, out of date. Lot's of companyies try things and they don't work and then try somehting else. Mirage is certainly innovative...I tend to err on the side of proven staples etc over new might be good but might not.

    It would be nice if both dealers would let you have an in home trial of their demo model over a weekend. This way you can keep the one you like and send the other back...but everything will equal - the room your amp/cd player etc.

    And if the two are very close then the Mirage being a LOT cheaper is the way to go. Certainly appears to look nice and I've never heard anything bad about build quality.

  14. #14
    JSE
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    Went last night and listened to the B&W 602S3 again. I was still impressed. However, compared to the Mirage Omni 60, it did not seem as open and airy. It seemed to be a little more "muffled" Overall though, I think the B&W is the better speaker. I also listened to the Dynaudio 52. That's a nice speaker but does not really have the low end I am looking for. If I were getting a Sub, then the 52 would definitely be a strong contender. In terms of what I am looking for I think I might demo the B&W (the dealer will allow this) and buy the Mirage Omni. Tweeter won't let me audition it but I can return it within 30 days for cash refund.

    I am really trying to get a speaker that will fill up my pool room and give lively sound. I am not necc. looking for the most acurate sound. Just good room filling, lively sound. I actually think the Omni might do better at this. I was extremely impressed by the huge soundstage they created. This might be just what I am looking for. We'll see.

    JSE

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