Klipschorn ten times as efficient as Audio Note's best

[skeptic]

Some people posting here claim that efficiency is a mark of performance in loudspeakers so here is a fact to consider.

Audio Note's most efficient speaker and best design is the E series which has a rated sensitivity of 94 db.* Klipschorn has a sensitivity of 104 db.

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=2

That's ten times as efficient. If efficiency is what is important to you and the way you judge the quality of a loudspeaker, then there is no comparison. By this standard, Klipschorn blows Audio Note and just about every other speaker away. What's more, Klipschorn is probably as cheap or cheaper. Able to handle 100 watts RMS and 400 watts peak it can put out up to an ear shattering 121 db. It's range is alas only rated on the low end to 33 hz but that's at 3 db down not 6 the way Audio Note's is so they are slightly closer than they appear with A/N E rated at 18 hz. Of course there is the size. Klipschorn is a big boy. Audio Note E is an oversized bookshelf model. Klipschorn wants the corners although they have other models which don't. An probably should be mounted on its dedicated stands. Klipschorn can fill an auditorium with ease. What can A/N E do? I don't know but just looking at it, most likely it's no match there either.

*based on A/N specification of sensitivity for E; level 1, 2, 3 = 94 db, level 4 E/SE=94.5, level 4 E/SE Silver = 93.5
http://www.audionote.co.uk/

Conclusion, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. When efficiency is the criteria, there's far better than Audio Note and most others as well.

[benil]

Some people posting here claim that efficiency is a mark of performance in loudspeakers so here is a fact to consider.

Audio Note's most efficient speaker and best design is the E series which has a rated sensitivity of 94 db.* Klipschorn has a sensitivity of 104 db.

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=2

That's ten times as efficient. If efficiency is what is important to you and the way you judge the quality of a loudspeaker, then there is no comparison. By this standard, Klipschorn blows Audio Note and just about every other speaker away. What's more, Klipschorn is probably as cheap or cheaper. Able to handle 100 watts RMS and 400 watts peak it can put out up to an ear shattering 121 db. It's range is alas only rated on the low end to 33 hz but that's at 3 db down not 6 the way Audio Note's is so they are slightly closer than they appear with A/N E rated at 18 hz. Of course there is the size. Klipschorn is a big boy. Audio Note E is an oversized bookshelf model. Klipschorn wants the corners although they have other models which don't. An probably should be mounted on its dedicated stands. Klipschorn can fill an auditorium with ease. What can A/N E do? I don't know but just looking at it, most likely it's no match there either.

*based on A/N specification of sensitivity for E; level 1, 2, 3 = 94 db, level 4 E/SE=94.5, level 4 E/SE Silver = 93.5
http://www.audionote.co.uk/

Conclusion, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. When efficiency is the criteria, there's far better than Audio Note and most others as well.

who claimed it to be the most efficient?

best-sounding efficient speaker is more like it IMHO!!

[skeptic]

"The only reason to NEED more power is bad speaker design - Higher efficient speakers ALWAYS sound more dynamic more lifelike..."

RGA, today, 12:39 AM

ALWAYS? Then Klipschorn must be ten times more dynamic and lifelike than Audio Note's best. If A/N's best needs 10 to 20 watts, it is a comparatively bad design to one that only need one or two watts. At least that's the logic I just read from RGA.

BTW, while Klipschorn is ten times more efficient than Audio Note E and marginally more efficient than ten times compared to Audio Note J, it is nearly twenty-five times as efficient as Audio Note K. Twenty-five times more dynamic and lifelike? I don't know. Maybe there's something to that. Ever hear a pair of Klipschorns? Why not RUN RUN RUN right down to your nearest Klipschorn dealer and listen to a pair. Mabye you'll decide it's time for a trade in. I'll bet they'd even give you a couple of hundred trade in....if the cabinets are in good shape.

[RGA]

Part of my statement is 100% correct and part of my statement was incorrect. The Klispshhorn IS more dynamic than the best AN E/Sogon (which is 98db sesnitivie). And the K-Horn will play significanlty Louder than the E's. And to a horn lover it will probably be preferrable to the E's in certain regards - maybe a reason this 1940's K-Horn is STILL being sold is because it's probably one of the best 10 speakers ever built by anyone. There are some weaknesses that will put people off no doubt. I will take the sound of the AN's over the K-horn - despite the superiority in certain areas the K-horn possesses.

It is really quite simple = if you make sopmething less efficient less sensitive you had better give me something in return for that trade-off. The lousy manufacturers claim that they are sacrificing efficiency for bass depth (Like AR) -- The Audio Note's have the bass have high sensitivity and do it from small cabinets and one single 8 inch woofer and 1 inch tweeter. Tell me why other manufacturers need a 3 way 12inch or dual 12 inch woofer or 15 inch woofer or multi-line arrays to get LESS bass from cabinets 5 times larger all with 85db ratings which also need to be placed 6 feet into the room and then need to spend a significant amount of money on a high power high quality SS amps capable of the ridiculous impedence swings also demanded by such loudspeakers? Where's the gain to all of this.

Thanks but one can get a good low powered amp for a lot less money and buy a smaller speaker shove it in a corner - or not - and get better performance for less money.

If you happen to love 1 watt amps however - then the AN E isn't going to be able to make full use of the amp that the amp would for the K-Horn or Avante Guarde Horns.

[skeptic]

You can buy two new cars like Buick Centurys or Toyota Camrys or one new Lexus LS400 for about the cost of that pair of AN speakers. IMO, they aren't worth it. I'd take the Klipschorns even if they didn't throw in a Camry and enough gas to drive around the world more than 5 times. I'm not paying for Peter Qtwerp to put his kid through Harvard for a year on the windfall.

[RGA]

You can buy two new cars like Buick Centurys or Toyota Camrys or one new Lexus LS400 for about the cost of that pair of AN speakers. IMO, they aren't worth it. I'd take the Klipschorns even if they didn't throw in a Camry and enough gas to drive around the world more than 5 times. I'm not paying for Peter Qtwerp to put his kid through Harvard for a year on the windfall.

Where do you get your prices from Audio Note is no more expensive than most high end speaker companies - they have speakers from $549US to $100,000US - Nothing is worth the latter unless it gives great Aural sex as well. The basic AN E/LX is around $4500.00US. I live at home - a car is a money pit to get me from a to b - thanks I'd rather have the cheapest possible reliable car I can find that costs me the elast to operate - stereos even pricey ones are still cheap. $15,000.00 car and $15,000.00 speakers any day over $28,000.00Car and $2,000.00 speakers.

[skeptic]

Efficiency = Performance is rediculous.

"The only reason to NEED more power is bad speaker design - Higher efficient speakers ALWAYS sound more dynamic more lifelike..."

" maybe a reason this 1940's K-Horn is STILL being sold is because it's probably one of the best 10 speakers ever built by anyone."

If efficiency were the standard of performance, a Volkswagon Beetle would be a much better car than a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce. It gets much better gas mileage hence it is more efficient.

Maybe the real reason Klipschorn is still manufactured is that it is regarded as the Founder's claim to fame 65 years ago and is heavily subsidized by profits from much more modern and successful designs offered by the same company. In the late 1950s AR1 clearly demonstrated that it could produce much deeper less distorted bass in fact about an entire octave lower at around a fifth the cost and the space. These enormous dinasaurs are museum pieces. Few serious manufacturers of high fidelity loudspeakers actually use horns anymore for midrange and treble because of their poor dispersion and uneven frequency response. Only a handful of diehards are wedded to them. Their one legitimate use is in being able to produce an acceptable sound level from puny antiquated amplifier designs like the SET. It is sad to see so many people nostalgic for the obsolete technologies of a time that existed long before most of them were born. Why were these techologies abandoned? Because better ones replaced them, that's why. Same as in every other area of life.

[benil]

Efficiency = Performance is rediculous.

Inefficient speakers = strangled, clinical, lean and boring sound. they are often poor performers too when it comes to low-level listening since most amps that can drive them are the mega-watt types that only sound acceptable when played at loud levels.

If efficiency were the standard of performance, a Volkswagon Beetle would be a much better car than a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce. It gets much better gas mileage hence it is more efficient.

poor analogy there. in audio terms, i think efficient speakers simply mean high sensitivity speakers that have flat and high impedance curves. btw, aren't you contradicting yourself now. all of a sudden you find expensive, high performance, low sales volume cars that are sold by its makers for a higher margin to be better than the beetle types.

Few serious manufacturers of high fidelity loudspeakers actually use horns anymore for midrange and treble because of their poor dispersion and uneven frequency response. Only a handful of diehards are wedded to them.

ever heard of hi-fi horn speakers called Avante Garde? more serious and far more HI-FI than BOSE, in my book.

i bet the reason why they have such a small following is that few people really have the passion to go out there and listen to different types of systems before they decide what to get. i think popularity is a very poor gauge of a product's performance.

Their one legitimate use is in being able to produce an acceptable sound level from puny antiquated amplifier designs like the SET. It is sad to see so many people nostalgic for the obsolete technologies of a time that existed long before most of them were born. Why were these techologies abandoned? Because better ones replaced them, that's why. Same as in every other area of life.

on the contrary, i think the reason why dry-sounding, low-noise, high-powered SS amps are generally perceived to be the best is because most of today's speakers have been designed to be so inefficient.

i noticed from the other forums that you listen to vinyl too. do you listen to records purely out of nostalgia? many people now regret throwing away their records and turntables after realizing that CD's promise of "perfect sound. forever" just did not deliver.

SET amps like vinyl has died many deaths but is seeing a resurgence because of the many sonic flaws of today's digital and modern transistor amplifier design . This, i think, has resulted from that fact that people are now better informed about what is out there.

btw, here's a nice read on SET+efficient speakers:
Thermionic

[skeptic]

"i noticed from the other forums that you listen to vinyl too. do you listen to records purely out of nostalgia? "

Actually, I listen to vinyl on rare occasion because I like some of those recordings and I haven't been able to duplicate them on cd. When I do, I am constantly reminded of the limitations of the technology of the vinyl phonograph record. I for one am not any more sorry that their day is over than I am that the day of vacuum tubes and horn loaded loudspeakers for home use is largely over. There will alway be niche markets for everything but by and large they represent a minute fraction, less than one percent of the overall market.

The heyday of the horn loudspeaker was the 1950s. You only needed one loudspeaker and high powered amplifiers meaning 50 or 60 watts either didn't exist or were terribly expensive. The horn speaker evolved to satisfy the requirements of the motion picture industry. That's why manufacturers of them were predominantly west coast in the beginning (Altec and JBL) and they developed that west coast sound. Movie houses had to be able to fill up a large theater with a lot of sound from a small amplifier. But for high fidelity, they were very impractical in homes due to their size and they turned out to be highly inaccurate. Horns still play a major role today in sound reinforcement systems for theaters and sports arenas both indoor and outdoor. But today they are installed in banks and banks and more banks and banks of high powered amplifiers are used to power them.

While they are still manufactured for these types of installations, they find their way into the home audio systems of people who are either unconcerned about accuracy, don't really know what it means, or are confined by the least powerful amplifiers on the market having been burned by poor equipment or combinations.

"aren't you contradicting yourself now. all of a sudden you find expensive, high performance, low sales volume cars that are sold by its makers for a higher margin to be better than the beetle types. "

If they offered little or nothing of useful value that would be true. And many of them are. A Lincoln Town Car may offer nothing more than a fully loaded Ford Crown Victoria or a Mercury Grand Marquis except prestige of the name and gingerbread interior decorating. If you need to go to the corner supermarket once a week and don't go for long rides, a Volkswagon Beetle may be perfectly adequate but if you are on the road for hours every day you would be much happier with something more powerful, more comfortable and larger especially if you carry a couple of passengers once in a while. If you have a gang of kids, you need an SUV. If you are a homeowner, a truck is more practical. Of course if you are going to use a car for drag racing, that Beetle would become the joke of the day every day.

"Inefficient speakers = strangled, clinical, lean and boring sound. they are often poor performers too when it comes to low-level listening since most amps that can drive them are the mega-watt types that only sound acceptable when played at loud levels."

Got any proof of that? Any DBTs? Any live versus recorded demos like AR conducted? Any input/output measurements to show that they aren't linear? The answer is undoubtedly no because such a thing can't be shown? Why? Because it obviously isn't true. What horn speakers have that better designed more advanced high fidelity speakers don't have is an irritationly irregular frequency response which makes you reach your threshold of wincing at a much lower sound level. If that is what you consider expanded dynamics, you can keep it.

[RGA]

Efficiency = Performance is rediculous.

"The only reason to NEED more power is bad speaker design - Higher efficient speakers ALWAYS sound more dynamic more lifelike..."

" maybe a reason this 1940's K-Horn is STILL being sold is because it's probably one of the best 10 speakers ever built by anyone."

If efficiency were the standard of performance, a Volkswagon Beetle would be a much better car than a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce. It gets much better gas mileage hence it is more efficient.

Maybe the real reason Klipschorn is still manufactured is that it is regarded as the Founder's claim to fame 65 years ago and is heavily subsidized by profits from much more modern and successful designs offered by the same company. In the late 1950s AR1 clearly demonstrated that it could produce much deeper less distorted bass in fact about an entire octave lower at around a fifth the cost and the space. These enormous dinasaurs are museum pieces. Few serious manufacturers of high fidelity loudspeakers actually use horns anymore for midrange and treble because of their poor dispersion and uneven frequency response. Only a handful of diehards are wedded to them. Their one legitimate use is in being able to produce an acceptable sound level from puny antiquated amplifier designs like the SET. It is sad to see so many people nostalgic for the obsolete technologies of a time that existed long before most of them were born. Why were these techologies abandoned? Because better ones replaced them, that's why. Same as in every other area of life.

It's interesting to note that JBL's new top of the line speaker under Floyd Toole and Harman are what do you know Horn speakers - and McIntosh's NEW top of the line is what do you know a tube amp - and the K-Horn is still being sold NEW. Yes all horns and tubes are obsolete junk all right. And it all looks like abandoned technology to me - I don't suppose anyone today could take those obsolete technologies and make them better.

JBL and Tannoy are obviously not serious - fine by me their lower lines are dreadful and I can't say I've heard the K http://www.jbl.com/home/products/pro...rId=K2&sCatId=

Of course for $25,000.00 it has less bass and the same sensitivity as the $4500.00 AN E and in fact the J has more bass and only sacrifices 1db on the sensitivity at half the size - so perhaps you are right. I mean 35hz -10db - the thing weighs 198lbs each and 15 inch woofer - despite all that the can't match the E or J in the bass department - WOW $25,000.00 for a pair - and Audio Note's are a ripoff? Well they might me that's up to you but look at JBL. Hell my Wharfedales beat these numbers for a mere 2k per pair. JBL will take twice the watts though...so that must be worth the extra $23,000.00 - and if you actually want a WOOD finish tha's an extra $2,000.00.

Tannoy's Westminster Royal at 304 lbs and also under Harman - A dual concentric Compound Horn will grant you - 99db sesnitivie also uses the Acoustic Waveguide that Audio Note uses and interestingly also puts up the exact same 18Hz - 22kHz -6dB spec that Audio Note claims - the Westminster though does use a 15 inch woofer and 530 litre Ply wood cabinet. I'm sure Harman has kept her around for goiod reason since it is the companies top of the line flagship and best speaker. Costs a bit more than the E - not gonna be good for average rooms - I like it because it too is rather pedestrian. I'll grant you this one specs better in the sensitivity and ultimate volume department - but man it took a lot to get that 4.5db extra. http://www.tannoy.com/frame.cfm?ID=1&D=1

[RGA]

"It is sad to see so many people nostalgic for the obsolete technologies of a time that existed long before most of them were born. Why were these techologies abandoned? Because better ones replaced them, that's why. Same as in every other area of life."

Hmmm - try a 3000 Bar-BQ - Yes nothing old is any good http://biggreenegg.com/bge.htm

[skeptic]

Having exploited the best technologies to their limit, it appears JBL, Tannoy, and McIntosh are looking to fish in ancient waters to see if they can generate some money trying to teach some old dogs new tricks. I don't think it will fool many audiophiles. Just the SET/horn fanatics. When you have gone as far as you can with acoustic suspension systems, you expoit ported designs to the fullest as Theil and Small did. When that's pushed to its limit, exploit horns. I don't know where you go from there. Horns actually hearken back not to the thirties but to the wax cylinder and days prior to electronic amplificaton. This is an industry at a technological dead end. The desparation of JBL and McIntosh to find something different to sell no matter what it is, proves it.

[bobsticks]

"The only reason to NEED more power is bad speaker design - Higher efficient speakers ALWAYS sound more dynamic more lifelike..."

RGA, today, 12:39 AM

ALWAYS? Then Klipschorn must be ten times more dynamic and lifelike than Audio Note's best. If A/N's best needs 10 to 20 watts, it is a comparatively bad design to one that only need one or two watts. At least that's the logic I just read from RGA.

BTW, while Klipschorn is ten times more efficient than Audio Note E and marginally more efficient than ten times compared to Audio Note J, it is nearly twenty-five times as efficient as Audio Note K. Twenty-five times more dynamic and lifelike? I don't know. Maybe there's something to that. Ever hear a pair of Klipschorns? Why not RUN RUN RUN right down to your nearest Klipschorn dealer and listen to a pair. Mabye you'll decide it's time for a trade in. I'll bet they'd even give you a couple of hundred trade in....if the cabinets are in good shape.

hehehe...hehehehehehehe....

[Ajani]

hehehe...hehehehehehehe....

Lol. Great thread. Thanks for reviving it.

[RGA]

Good times - thread from 7 years ago.

Skeptic with his Bose 901s claiming them the best speakers ever constructed in the history of loudspeaker design (but only his version).

I recently heard the Klipsch Lascala again here in Hong Kong - and they are more dynamic and have more dynamic ease than the AN speakers so on that count they are better.

And gee it seems I was right again (which is the frustrating part for the dimwits) since Klipsch is now selling new versions (umm the same versions) of their Klipschhorn, Lascala, Heresey, and Cornwall Heritage Home Audio-Loudspeakers-Klipsch

So apparently many people are running running running to buy the new old speakers.

And the more hilarious thing is that those people who bought the original AN E Sogon speakers with the 45kg of silver foil back in 2005 are selling the speakers for MORE than they originally paid - the price of silver skyrocketed. Tell me again which cars sold in 2004 and 2005 can be sold for $10,000 more than one originally paid? Or heck keeping apples to apples - which other loudspeaker sold in 2005 can be sold for $10grand more than the original price paid?

I have no problem buying stuff that I don't lose money on. I can sell my OTO and my AN J/spe for hundreds more than I paid. The turntable I will get in the ballpark.

Which other audio manufacturers can you make money owning on owning their gear again? (and all my stuff was purchased before being a reviewer so that is no dealer reviewer discount).

Har and Har

[gonefishin]

Some people posting here claim that efficiency is a mark of performance in loudspeakers so here is a fact to consider.

Skeptic, there seems to be one thing consistent in your posts directed toward RGA...and that's that you want to argue with him. It is making for some good (read funny) posts tho.

Some thing to consider on some HE speakers (and other speakers as well)...

Many of the pro version woofers and drivers are extremely well built with very low distortion ratings. You keep bringing up that the Klipsch and Altec speakers are extremely colored...that is true. If the color of the horn or cabinets doesn't suit your tastes, then you have the option of either modifying the horn or cabinet to reduce these colorations. If this still doesn't suit your tastes you can have someone build...or build it yourself. If your not qualified (which it sounds like your not) to design your own enclosures, horns or crossovers...I would suggest you do what I did. Get advice from those more knowledgeable than youself. But to suggest that ANY driver is inferior because of the sound of a particular speaker you've heard is silly.

Something to keep in mind is that a speaker is a combination of of the drivers used, the enclosure (of many types) and crossover.

Just some things to keep in mind, that it seems you had forgotten.

take care,
dan

[skeptic]

Horn speakers have characteristics which make them excellent for certain applications. They are ideally suited for sound reinforcement systems because they can be designed for constant directivity. This maximizes gain before feedback and allows multiple arrays to cover large areas in public spaces with the best possible uniformity. They are very efficient and can be designed to handle lots of power with enormous undistorted output. This also makes them valuable for use in public spaces. It is probably safe to say that most if not all large venues have horn speakers installed for sound reinforcement.

However, they have definite drawbacks as home high fidelity speaker system. To get satisfactory bass from them they must be very large to enormous. In most people's homes in the United States, that means that a pair of them would dominate even a large room and are completely impractical for an average to small room. They generally do not reproduce the lowest octave of bass unless they use the best drivers and are well executed folded designs. Furthermore, large horn speaker cabinets are heavy and expensive. One of my all time favorite systems, the JBL Paragon weighs 850 pounds. Even in my very large house (by American standards anyway) if I owned a pair, they would have to go in the basement. Therefore, for most people, they are not practical. Worse yet is that horn tweeters simply can't compete with other designs such as domes when it comes to dispersion, a critical factor in high frequency performance IMO. If you look at a photo of the Paragon, you will see a curved surface in the front deliberately calculated as a reflector to improve lateral dispersion of mid and high fequencies.

If you are not restricted to very high efficiency loudspeakers because of amplifier power limitations, then IMO, for high fidelity in the home, there are much better choices. Of course, if you like the sound of horn speakers, well that's your business.

I argue with RGA because he parrots back rediculous blanket statements from someone manufacturing and selling a particular product who would have you believe that he alone has the corner on the market for high quality audio equipment and can therefore charge whatever he feels like. It doesn't bother me to challenge him about this at all. If it bothers you or anyone else, I urge you not to read my postings on the subject.

[gonefishin]

Horns (like other speakers) sure do have drawbacks. Like you mentioned Size and weight are certainly two of those drawbacks. These two things alone would keep them out of many households (especially many with a wife). The horn tweeters may not be able to compete with domes on dispersion...but if you couple the tweeter to a suitable horn you could achieve a flat response with very low distortion while maintaining nice dynamic range. Using the appropriate horn (for your preference/drivers/room) can yield a flat response with low distortion with excellent micro and macro detail. Of course, Horns (or HE) aren't the only way to achieve this...and quality HE drivers can get quite expensive.

I argue with RGA because he parrots back rediculous blanket statements from someone manufacturing and selling a particular product who would have you believe that he alone has the corner on the market for high quality audio equipment and can therefore charge whatever he feels like.

Yeah, RGA does seem to parrot back several claims in marketing advertisements...I can understand your reason for wanting to argue. But you also seem to make similar blanket statements, just directed against RGA's point of view...rather than for some marketing scheme. (edit add I should add that I do really enjoy reading RGA's writings about his subjective preferences...he really has a talent with a pen to get across what he hears and feels in each audition.


Anyway, I can see your point. I just thought I'd pipe in with my comment. I also have a better view of the points you were trying to make before too. Thanks for clearing them up.

happy fourth to all who it applies to...and happy weekend to all it doesn't>>>

dan

[skeptic]

Happy fourth to you as well.

At least I try to keep my postings civil and directed at the issue, not at the person making it...well most of the time (when I'm not clowning around with PC Tower.) It's only when someone comes on this board trying to convince people not to get themselves or their kids vaccinated or take prescribed antibiotics for an infection that I begin to lose it. It occurs to me that someone might actually believe that kind of crap.

[RGA]

I only get into this because AN is called out for making 20k+ equipment - last I checked so did EVERY other high end maker - and the crappy ones like JBL also mmake them and they have no bass??. It is really quite simple - regrdless of costs - you listen to the Audio Note 20k speaker and B&W's or Dynaudios or JM Labs' counter.

Any high end piece of equipment has far higher mark-up than a lower priced one. The cars by the way - Toyota already stated that ANY car they produce has a combined labour cost of the ENTIRE car just under 20 hours. There is not a mass production car built that would cost the manufacturer more tha $6,000.00.

The Kits are kits - the folks at the audio note kits forum can answer those question. The words largely undamped means that in cetain areas it is and so is internal bracing used to augment frequencies - which is different from the original Snells that were stuffed to the hilt full of dacron.

You have a massive company like B&W and a small time player like Audio Note(Peter owned and ran a much bigger audio company was a multi-millionaire before starting Audio NoteUK). Find out what B&W's designers think about Audio Note.

I find it more interesting that so many reviewers use Audio Note products as reference componants or heck even more of a compliment to JUST listen to in their homes. It is quite dispraportionate that a small company would manage a feat that the big guys can't.

There are plenty of more expensive companies as well - Audio Note is nowhere near as expensive as stuff from that eye-candy site.

I don't tell people to buy Audio Note - but you seem to take issue with recommending people give a $2000.00 Audio Note speaker a listen when they are shopping for a $2000.00 B&W or Paradigm? I wonder why that is? Surely no one has anything to fear - after all Paradigm and Energy and PSB and B&W's $2000.00 loudspeakers have more expensive materials than the AN's right? - well except for silly things like wiring, crossover materials, drivers, and the cabinetry - but besides those things.

Bottom line - no name company, don't advertising, ugly, expensive, demand dealer's carry the entire lines - not the top end ones but a full sampling from DAC to wire to speaker (Yes that is a sign they are desperate to make sales - this limits their dealers by about 98%). Why would any dealer want to carry such a line? Oh they heard the speakers for themselves - all they have to do is let people listen to them against those big guys. What a terrible company and pushy Mr. Qvortrup for asking one to listen to equipment befrore they buy. You think it's a rippoff fine - but before I call a $1500.00 TV a rippoff I usually like to see it along side the $399.00 version and other's in between to be sure it's a rippoff. and sometimes I can see that gee that $1500.00 tv has a better picture.

"Hoopla? AN doesn't advertise, nor does it produce product literature, because they would prefer that people get out and listen for themselves. That's pretty much the entire sales pitch. How very over-the-top of them!" (DrCope)

[Ajani]

So the basic point is that in 7 years AN jacked up the price of their products so much, that persons who bought at the old prices can actually sell for more than what they initially paid.

[RGA]

So the basic point is that in 7 years AN jacked up the price of their products so much, that persons who bought at the old prices can actually sell for more than what they initially paid.

And what you're problem be with that? Benefits the owner no? Or do you like to buy stuff that is worth 1/3 to 1/5 of what you paid 5 years ago. As an customer I know which one I want to buy. And the prices keep rising because people are willing to pay more and more and more. When you use materials that go up in price it costs more to make them.

The other thing that helps is that they don't change models every 2 years because they're whores to reviews.

As soon as the new model comes out the old model is worth half - assuming it isn't worth half when you walk out the door.

And it only works on some AN stuff. The gear that has had increases to the model prices and has not had design changes.

The problem for the owner however is that if I sell my AN J for example I get X dollars - but the replacement models have gone way up so I still fall significantly short in being able to buy a new AN model. So I would have to buy something else for the money I get for the AN J - and something else from everything else I have heard is worse. Say larvae.

[cjpremierfour]

Just my opinion:

I occasionally get out to the "Audio Shows" where I get to hear some really high end horns and other speakers. I have also had experience with The Klipschorn @ 10 times. I can tell you, without any doubt, a person who thinks horns have dynamics, has not heard the MBL Radialstrahler 101E MKii. With it's 81db at 2.83v rating, it will kill any commercial sold horn as well as most ( all that I have heard) "Hi End" horns as far as reproducing music. It's really easly to produce high sound pressure, it's something else entirely to produce music and get the dynamics right.
Some years ago, I would have agreed with some of these statements, after hearing the MBL system break all the rules, only the MBL has it right. My favorite pair of horns are the JBL Hartsfields. They will play anything without breaking a sweat. They can match anything on dynamics, speed, bass power but they don't sound like music. It's quite fun to spend time with and I would love to take a pair home, but it's not musicial.
Those who disagree with me have never sat in front of pair of the MBL 101E's and I hope that one day you will. Just a while back, I was trying to figure out how to make a pair of Altec A7's work in my living room. Now, I'm not sure I want to go that direction after hearing that system. I know that the system is hideously expensive, but for reproducing music from a source, it's the best.

[Enochrome]

Not the Audio Note thing again!.......so since were talking AN J, my Snell Type J's are rated at 92db but I still have to crank the amp to the same level as my old Kef 103.2's which I believe were rated ata 88 or 89db. What gives? You think the caps are winding down? Should I buy some killer audio grade caps, or will I be messing with the magic even if I stay within .5% of the specs.

[Ajani]

Not the Audio Note thing again!.......so since were talking AN J, my Snell Type J's are rated at 92db but I still have to crank the amp to the same level as my old Kef 103.2's which I believe were rated ata 88 or 89db. What gives? You think the caps are winding down? Should I buy some killer audio grade caps, or will I be messing with the magic even if I stay within .5% of the specs.

There has been some debate about how AN sensitivity is measured. Are your speakers in the corners of your room or free standing? If they're free standing then 'maybe' placing them in the corners will be beneficial. Anyway, I'm sure real experts on AN like RGA will chime in to help you out.