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  1. #1
    Forum Regular Registered Member Zhyn's Avatar
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    How much bass is to much? <_<

    So I was listening to some Quake II, and one of the songs must have been ripped funny or something but the diaphragm on my speakers (VR-1's powered by a Cambridge audio azur 640 V2) went all crazy. So I very quickly lowered the volume and avoided that track.

    I'm guessing it had something to do with the bass being too high on that track?

    So I was wondering, how much bass would be too much? When is the diaphragm moving in and out to far? Or if it should only be vibrating and not moving at all.
    Last edited by Zhyn; 06-22-2006 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Bass not base :D

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    I have the Q2 CD also and the tracks are just fine, but your speakers cannot handle the signal. Solution = turn it down ;-)

    Cheers

    Flo

    PS: Bass is created by moving lots of air, the smaller your driver the more it has to move, and use the box to reinforce the signal. So, a little movement is ok, but when the rubber starts bending, watch out :-)
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  3. #3
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    The VR-1 is a ported/vented speaker, so I would suspect that your CD has some low bass content that dips well below the tuned port frequency on your speaker. As the bass content goes closer to the tuned port frequency, the driver movement on a ported speaker will actually taper off. But, once the signal goes below the tuned port frequency, then the driver will "unload" because the back pressure from the port is no longer there to dampen the cone movement. Car audio systems sometimes use bass blockers to prevent damage to the main drivers, since those installations do not typically have a tuned port alignment or sealed box to dampen the cone movement.

    This type of cone movement actually used to be fairly common with turntables, because vinyl can create a subsonic rumbling. This low frequency content is inaudible because it goes so low, but the speaker can pick it up, so you'd see the drivers moving a lot even though it might otherwise sound silent. A lot of older amplifiers and some phono preamps include subsonic filter switches specifically to address this issue, since excessive driver movement can affect how the more audible ranges sound.

    The cone movement with that low bass can damage the driver because there's nothing there to dampen it. But, fortunately most music does not have enough low frequency content to create serious problems at normal listening levels for decent speakers like the VR-1. Keep in mind that some cone movement is fine. But, if it looks like the driver is flopping around and it does not match up with any music content that you can hear, then the signal has likely gone below what your speakers are capable of reproducing, so you should use caution with the volume level.
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  4. #4
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    If you want real bass get a subwoofer. Those VR-1's are nice but what do you expect from a 61/2" woofer.
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  5. #5
    Just passing thru topspeed's Avatar
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    Wooch,

    In response to your excellent description, it should be noted the VR-1's port isn't a typical tuned port. If fact, it isn't tuned at all. It is, in VSA lingo, a "pressure release" that allows the transducer to "see" a bigger volume than the actual confines of the cabinet.

    As far as the distortion from overdriving the speaker, I'll admit that I'm surprised. Not that the speaker bottomed out (that can happen to any speaker), but that you were playing it that loud. You must have them in a pretty big room as I use a 30wpc Marantz and have never gone beyond half way on the volume. Like Flo said, turn it down
    "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn, then you have enough horsepower." Mark Donohue

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Registered Member Zhyn's Avatar
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    Hehe, well the Quake song was up to the max that I sometimes listen to for a couple songs (half volume) And it went as Woochifer described. There wasn't much base sound but the driver was moving alot and it looked funky.

    I just feel like listening to music at extreme volumes once and awhile. So If it looks like it's moving to much, it's probebly to much. I haven't seen the driver move to extremey at 75% volume(I don't think I've gone past that)

    Thanks for the info

  7. #7
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Wooch,

    In response to your excellent description, it should be noted the VR-1's port isn't a typical tuned port. If fact, it isn't tuned at all. It is, in VSA lingo, a "pressure release" that allows the transducer to "see" a bigger volume than the actual confines of the cabinet.

    As far as the distortion from overdriving the speaker, I'll admit that I'm surprised. Not that the speaker bottomed out (that can happen to any speaker), but that you were playing it that loud. You must have them in a pretty big room as I use a 30wpc Marantz and have never gone beyond half way on the volume. Like Flo said, turn it down
    ts -

    Interesting stuff I didn't know about the VR-1, thanks for pointing that out. I would be curious as to how the driver behaves at the lower limit using that kind of design, since typical ported speakers have the minimum cone movement at the tuned port frequency and uncontrolled movement below the tuned frequency. Is there any point at which the driver can unload, or does the cone remain dampened throughout the bass range?

    Not that I'm asking you to run a frequency sweep at reference levels or anything like that!
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  8. #8
    Suspended superpanavision70mm's Avatar
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    How much bass is TOO much? Well, when the earth opens up below your feet...that could be an indication and not just that you live in California either.

  9. #9
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    Too much bass is when the blood trickling from your ears doesn't stop after the first wipe:-)

  10. #10
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Too much bass is when you start having a headach even though you consider yourself a basshead. Either that or when your woofer totally starts to max-out

  11. #11
    rockin' the mid-fi audio_dude's Avatar
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    hehe, i like bottoming out really old speakers that i find in the trash...then i throw them out

  12. #12
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_dude
    hehe, i like bottoming out really old speakers that i find in the trash...then i throw them out
    Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaa. I luv it.

    I used to do that alot, and still do whenever I come across a pair that are really beat up. Also, fun to test out the kindness of my neighbors. Of course I'll never use my tube amp for that.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhyn
    I'm guessing it had something to do with the bass being too high on that track?
    .
    Your first reaction is propably the correct one.
    Some recordings such as some rap recordings are recorded into clipping or very close to clipping.
    I noticed the same thing when playing an MP3 on Windows Media player, however I didn't hear it but saw it on a oscilliscope (if that's how you spell it). When I adjusted my equalizer up from the flat position the waves became clipped.
    I'm still confused about how an equalizer can empasize frequencies into clipping.
    So maybe that might answer your question.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    If you want real bass get a subwoofer. Those VR-1's are nice but what do you expect from a 61/2" woofer.
    I would have to disagree with you there.
    My 6.5's put out more bass than most subs wish they could and damn are they smooth!
    My SEAS Excel 6.5's can vibrate a Las Vegas phonebook off of a milk crate!
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  15. #15
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emack27
    I would have to disagree with you there.
    My 6.5's put out more bass than most subs wish they could and damn are they smooth!
    My SEAS Excel 6.5's can vibrate a Las Vegas phonebook off of a milk crate!
    Are you sure you have heard a good subwoofer set up properly? Bass is all about moving air. There is no way any 6.5" dia. cones can move as much air as a couple of 12" or 15" dia. cones. I don't think anyone else on this site would try to claim that a couple of 6.5" dia. cones can compete with a good subwoofer.
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  16. #16
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    Is it normal for the speaker cones to visibly get pushed in and out when bumping or dropping the needle on a record?

  17. #17
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teledynepost
    Is it normal for the speaker cones to visibly get pushed in and out when bumping or dropping the needle on a record?
    Yes, the extreme subsonics generated by those actions make woofer cones do just that.
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  18. #18
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    If you want real bass get a subwoofer. Those VR-1's are nice but what do you expect from a 61/2" woofer.
    Oh come on,you mean a 6.5" woofer wont play down to16- 20Hz@105db? Clean! BTW,will my receiver get warm while trying?
    Look & Listen

  19. #19
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Oh come on,you mean a 6.5" woofer wont play down to16- 20Hz@105db? Clean! BTW,will my receiver get warm while trying?
    Is it related to the little engine that could?
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  20. #20
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Is it related to the little engine that could?
    I know i can,i know i can,i know i can. Sh$t,i cant.
    Look & Listen

  21. #21
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    I know i can,i know i can,i know i can. Sh$t,i cant.
    Gee! I forgot to ask if you leave it on all the time.
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  22. #22
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Hehehe, i read a lot of things on this forum that makes me smile. But someone commenting on the good "bass" from 6 1/2" woofer is a first
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  23. #23
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Hehehe, i read a lot of things on this forum that makes me smile. But someone commenting on the good "bass" from 6 1/2" woofer is a first
    Well that will finish him off . He wasn't exactly tender with me. Sorry emack but your seas' can't do everything.
    By the way Florian why ain't ya on msn anymore? (looked at the train tickets etc, we need to talk about it)
    Last edited by audio amateur; 06-25-2006 at 04:03 PM.

  24. #24
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    Well if ya don't believe that my 6.5's can compete with alot (not all) subs then here are some quotes.
    "Usable in-room bass response extends well into the low 30Hz range" by Joe D. Appolito http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seascatalog.pdf
    "the response in Joe's room sounded flat down to 25Hz." Professional Audio Review by Dennis Colin http://www.madisound.com/pdf/Kits/au...r%20Review.pdf
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  25. #25
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emack27
    Well if ya don't believe that my 6.5's can compete with alot (not all) subs then here are some quotes.
    "Usable in-room bass response extends well into the low 30Hz range" by Joe D. Appolito http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seascatalog.pdf
    "the response in Joe's room sounded flat down to 25Hz." Professional Audio Review by Dennis Colin http://www.madisound.com/pdf/Kits/au...r%20Review.pdf
    They still deserve a good sub no less.

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