Help me choose my first (used) speakers

[sjtm]

Thanks for the guidance. The more I read up on impedance and sensitivity, the more I realize the Quads are not a great choice. I listened to them tonight - the owner was not present and his wife knew nothing about them. They were not set up, so we pulled the cables from his new Quad ESL's driven by a Quad 99 / 909 preamp / amp setup. At 140 watts, the sound quality was less than spectacular, although the positioning was far from ideal. I still would prefer floorstanders, but will think more carefully about the right pairing with the PM7005. Unfortunately, this unit was just introduced in the last 9 months and there are almost no reviews or forum posts anywhere covering its performance and opinions on what it pairs with well. I guess I am among the first to go this route.

I also have tried to limit my consideration to speakers less than 10 years old. It does limit my options, but I have the same concern as you about age effects.

[Mr Peabody]

I've heard one Quad set up and it was very nice sounding, it was one of those sounds that you might be able to find faults with frequency or whatever but yet it was so nice to listen to. The gear is particular about what it has synergy with from what I understand.

I have a Marantz HT receiver that pushes Revel in-walls for me, it's rated at 50 watts a channel. I think some of the speakers on your list would be fine like the NHT, PSB or B&W. Marantz typically has a full bass, I suspect the Marantz may sound decent with the B&W. I didn't like B&W bass either until I heard them paired with McIntosh, then I couldn't believe it was the same speaker, ARC & Rotel don't seem to do them justice although that's usually what they are paired with.

You might also take a look at Wharfedale which new is a good value, price per performance. Musicdirect carries them and allows an audition. Just keep in mind most speakers require some break in when new out of the box.

[blackraven]

I agree with Mr. P about the Wharfedales. Music direct has great prices on them. They are a lot of bang for the buck. Here are some reviews on them.

http://www.musicdirect.com/c-610-tow...randFilterID=0


Wharfedale Diamond 10 Series 5.1 Speaker System Reviewed

[blackraven]

Just another thought on speakers. Elac has a new line of speakers coming out that were designed by Andrew Jones. They were the hit of the Newport Audio show this summer. Paired with high quality gear they astounded people with their sound.

speakers ? Welcome to ELAC Americas

ELAC Speakers Designed By Andrew Jones -- T.H.E. Show Newport 2015 Report

[sjtm]

I greatly appreciate all the input - it is very helpful. I feel like I am making all the newbie mistakes - did not buy separates; did not buy tons of power; getting enamored with brands before fully understanding how to match the parts of my system to both my tastes and budget.

At the moment I realize I am struggling with straying from the original concept (which may have been flawed from the start). While my circumstances would allow me to spend more, I had started with the premise of "quality at LOW cost". I am only now beginning to understand the compromises this entails.

I have put my faith in one brand at the moment - Marantz. I have no direct experience with the equipment and have gone entirely on its reputation. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised once I have everything together. While the time when I can spend $5k+ for an audiophile system is certainly in my future, now is not that time.

So I have a good quality but modest power 60 watt integrated amp (with built in DAC) and a well thought of CD player. For the moment I have my Sennheiser HD700 headphones ( which I love to listen through despite some internet criticism of these). These HP's are indicative of the sound quality I would like to achieve with two speakers - clear, accurate, fast with great bass reproduction WITHOUT an overwhelming bass emphasis. All this from inexpensive and very efficient speakers.

Perhaps I am starting to go in the wrong direction, but Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers seem they might fit the bill. I know they are "budget" speakers, but many people seem to like their sound. I have focused on the Monitor 7 v4 series, which was a design demarcation for this line - these represent the last generation to use 6.5 drivers for the mid and bass and recommend power of 15-180 watts with a sensitivity of 93db. And they are fairly cheap - less than $350 / pair. Later versions have similar specs but use 5.5' drivers. Not sure how much this matters though.

There are a variety of NHT speakers available in my area, both floorstanders and bookshelf (NHT Classic 3) but they all appear to need much more power to drive them.

I plan to audition a couple of pair of Paradigms this weekend. Of course these are all at least 5-10 year old speakers. Does this pursuit make any sense or am I interpreting the data / specs wrong. BTW - I found a website for PA speaker systems that had some layman's rules of thumb for pairing power and speakers ( I guess DJ's need this approach more than people on Audio Review forums). They recommended amp power should be 1.6x to 2.5x the minimum power handling of the speaker depending on the listening environment. Using this approach, the Paradigms should be driven by an amp with at least 22.5W - 37.5w per channel. Does this rule of thumb make any sense? I am presuming this is based on horn style speaker systems which appear to be very efficient, but the systems are also an order of magnitude larger in every respect.

[sjtm]

I've heard one Quad set up and it was very nice sounding, it was one of those sounds that you might be able to find faults with frequency or whatever but yet it was so nice to listen to. The gear is particular about what it has synergy with from what I understand.

I have a Marantz HT receiver that pushes Revel in-walls for me, it's rated at 50 watts a channel. I think some of the speakers on your list would be fine like the NHT, PSB or B&W. Marantz typically has a full bass, I suspect the Marantz may sound decent with the B&W. I didn't like B&W bass either until I heard them paired with McIntosh, then I couldn't believe it was the same speaker, ARC & Rotel don't seem to do them justice although that's usually what they are paired with.

You might also take a look at Wharfedale which new is a good value, price per performance. Musicdirect carries them and allows an audition. Just keep in mind most speakers require some break in when new out of the box.

I came upon these Wharfdale 10.7 last night on Music Direct for $799. They are 6 ohm speakers with a sensitivity of 90db. Was not sure how well these would match or what the quality of Wharfdale is.

[sjtm]

One other thought. I was offered a pair of NHT 2.5i speakers plus a Parasound 75w amp from the same seller. He offered the amp for $50. Could I bi-amp this with my Marantz and overcome my power deficit ( these have separate posts for bi-amping)? Would using two different amp brands impact sound / performance positively or negatively?

[blackraven]

That Marantz amp will be fine. It will be able to drive most speakers rated at 4-8 ohms and 87db and above. It has good current behind it. Current is just as important in driving speakers. Those NHT Classic Three's will be easy to drive with the Marantz. I like the sound of the NHT 3's and almost bought a pair. Paradigm makes nice speakers and should be a good match for the Marantz as I have heard that pairing.

I drive a pair of Monitor Audio S1 bookshelf speakers rated at 88dB Sensitivity to loud levels with a cheap Dayton Audio 20wpc digital amp and the sound is astounding. Don't get too caught up in the power game. Going from 60wpc to 75wpc won't gain you much more volume.

Any speaker that you get that is rated with a Sensitivity of 88dB or higher will play at ear bleeding levels for the most part. And once you get to a Sensitivity of 90 or above you can use 10 watts or less. And for the most part, when you play music, you are usually using less than 10 watts until you hit some dynamic parts of the music. There are plenty of so called "Flea" amps (because they put out 1 to 5 watts per channel) that cost a few thousand dollars that people pair with high efficiency speakers and many prefer them to high powered systems.

I also would not worry too much about bass. If your system lacks a little bass you can always add a small sub later. There are plenty of good budget subs or used subs that will do the job.

The only mistake that you made in putting together your system was not picking out your speakers first. Your Marantz gear will give you that smooth pleasing Marantz sound which is forgiving of poorly recorded music. I would have also gone with the PM8005 as it has preamp out puts so that you could use it as a preamp if you wanted to use a stand alone power amp. It also has more power. The PM7005 does not have preamp out put. I do understand about it having a built in DAC but you could have added a good budget DAC later like the AudioQuest Dragon Fly or something similar. Sometimes it is best to buy the best that you can and add other pieces as money allows. I don't think that you will be disappointed with the Marantz sound. You won't get audiophile sound but you will get very good sound.

Wharfedale makes some nice sounding speakers, they are smooth sounding with detail and some warmth. The tower speakers are supposed to put out nice bass although I have not heard the towers, only the 10.2's. But you should really buy speakers that you can hear unless you don't mind shipping them back if you don't like them.

If you can swing it, I would go with the B&W 683's. They will pair well with the Marantz, give you plenty of detail and bass. But give them a listen. Best Buy Magnolia stores carry the 683's and Marantz gear. Bring a long some well recorded music to listen to.

Those PSB's that you mentioned earlier have a great sound as well.

[Mr Peabody]

Wharfedale do have nice bass and MD allows a return if not happy. Auditioning a speaker with your amp and in your room is best. I only heard one Wharfedale tower and it sounded good with a friend's NAD receiver.

[Mr Peabody]

Your approach wasn't flawed. There is nothing wrong with integrated amps, in fact, they are the thing right now with many very expensive models as wellas people like Yamaha coming out with them again. Keeping to a budget helps you decide what to buy cautiously. Marantz is also very respectable in what they offer. Throwing money at audio doesn't mean you will get better or make you happier, you still need to buy wisely.

In my opinion you are on your way to having a nice system. Also, in my opinion, if buying used, you'd be guaranteed happy if you found a set of Dynaudio in your budget.

I think if the Paradigm bass was to your taste you'd like the sound of them. The mids & highs are lively, in a good way.