Floorstanding for around $600?

[soundslike]

Looking for help finding a good pair of floorstanding speakers for around $600 bucks. I have a Pioneer Elite vsx-21 reciever and a philips 963SA dvdplayer. Gave away (thus the budget) my bose (horrible sound) to my parents. I know that champagne sound is unrealistic in this price range (or is it?) so I am looking for micro-brewed beer sound on a pabst blue ribbon budget. Mostly for music (I want to take advantage of the 963's 192 bit upsampling) with a dvd or or two on the weekends. Probably won't buy sub, will buy center channel. Want I want out of speaker? Listen to a mix of music that leans towards jazz. Want soundstage, the ability to pick apart instruments (example:want to hear Boyd Tinsley's violin seperate from Dave Matthews guitar during jams). Done a bit of searching, leaning towards axiom m50 ti or athena as-f2 based of reviews on this site. Tested similiar offerings from klipsch and infinity and the sounded horrible. Any suggestions, recommendations, or deals would help.

[psonic]

My freind your off to a good start in audiophile land if you have such a budget. I strongly caution you against internet speakers and all the rave reviews you see for them. See they have to have these reviews so to survive as a company so for all we know many of them could be produced by the company itself. Many Axiom owners compare them to speakers like the Paradigm Titan and Monitor series...these are at best mediocre; you can do much better for $600. See, ALL speakers have good reviews, so reviews are somewhat meaningless. You have to listen yourself. Look for reviews on $50 speakers you'll see good ones, etc. Shop your local hifi shops and listen to what is in your price range, and as many as possible. Also listen to speakers costing $1k-2k, this can give you a good reference to judge the others by.

Now for my recommendation, see if there's an Energy dealer in your area...you won't be dissapointed...the C-5 with a with the excellent 1" aluminum tweeter and dual 6.5in woofers goes for $599-699 depending on the dealer, call a few and go audtition if they perhaps have a display model you can get for <$500, they may even negotiate down close to that for an in-box pair. There are also some online vendors that I've seen selling them under $500 on ebay from time to time. I have spent considerable time with that speaker, it is a steal in that price range. A subwoofer is not required w/ this speaker as you'll see in the reviews below, it has very good bass extension. Enjoy and listen to as many speakers as you can before deciding...and again be very cautious with speakers you cannot listen to first against other speakers.

http://www.energyloudspeakers.com/c...akers1_c-5.html

http://www.energyloudspeakers.com/p...ur_reviews.html

http://www.energy-speakers.com/deal...er_locator.html

[JSE]

I would second the C-5 from Energy. I auditioned them a little over a year ago and was very impressed. I think the asking price was $650 when I listened to them. You should be able to find them for $600.

Also, you might consider Vandersteen's 1C. They are about $750 new and would work well with Jazz. Some people don't like the Vandy sound but I found it very detailed. However, they do not have the same bass extention like the Energy C-5.

Take your time and look around but definitely go listen to the Energy. The Athens AS-F2 is also a very nice speaker for the money. You can't go wrong with either.

JSE

[ericl]

I had the image 4t for a while, nice speaker. I'm thinking of putting together a surround sound system with the image line,

-Eric

[soundslike]

Thanks guys for the tips on energy c-5s. Unfortunatley the closest energy dealer is 280 miles away (figures)! i've gone through and tested everything at circuit city, best buy, and ultimate electronics. The only thing I have heard in my range that I liked was the athenas and one of the bipolar models from def tech. I've got one true hi-fi store left to shop. Its really frustrating trying to find a balanced speaker in this range. Thanks also for the reminder about online companies posting reviews, was not sure if much of that happened on this site.

[chimera128]

I like the Energy speakers as well (listened to a few before I got my current speakers but can't remember the model numbers). If you like the sound of Definitive Technology speakers you should be able to get the BP10Bs for around the price range you are looking at. I got the ones I use for surrounds for $660. They have enough performance in the bass department where you could hold off on a sub for a while. I used them for mains while I lived in an apartment (neighbors weren't very happy with me =D) and they handily outperformed my satellite/sub combo I was using before on both movie and music reproduction (I was using a Promonitor100/prosub100tl combo). If you go for a listen make sure they have the speakers set to "LARGE" otherwise they won't reproduce as much as they can. The best way to negotiate on the speakers is to find a store that isn't a chain like Ultimate Electronics. They are (usually) more willing to move on speaker prices. I know Ultimate Electronics usually runs a 10% add off of DefTech products so you could use that as a starting point for your negotiations.

[chimera128]

Also wanted to throw in that a good sub will make a big difference in both jazz and classical reproduction. Fingered bass, cellos, etc take on a whole new sense of realism if you have a good sub to round out the spectrum.

[soundslike]

Well I found the local hi-fi store. They no longer carry Energy because of the companies shaky economics. In my price range they carry Pardigm and B&W. After a little hearing test with Tim Reynolds "Stream" cd (hdcd) the salesmen thought my hearing was too sharp for what floorstanding models were in my price range. We listened to Paraqdigm studio 20s and 40s and the B&W 705s. They all sounded really good. The 20s seemed like the music was in the middle ground, the 40s were right in front of me, and the 705s were in the back (almost too polite). The 20s seemed like the best choice, but they are lacking at low volume. So now I'm really confused, should I be looking for bookshelfs (on stands) in my price range?

[chimera128]

What would it hurt by looking at bookshelfs? Basically it all comes down to what you like best in the end. If it happens to be a bookshelf, satellite/sub combo, bipolar tower, omnipolar, stat, planar,or even BOSE, then go with it. But I would try to keep as open a mind as possible, there are a lot of great options in the $600 range. Also don't limit yourself to $600 msrp because you can usually buy demo models (with full factory warranty) for 30+% off. The end of the year is coming up so it's logical there are going to be speaker line changes.

[Woochifer]

Well I found the local hi-fi store. They no longer carry Energy because of the companies shaky economics. In my price range they carry Pardigm and B&W. After a little hearing test with Tim Reynolds "Stream" cd (hdcd) the salesmen thought my hearing was too sharp for what floorstanding models were in my price range. We listened to Paraqdigm studio 20s and 40s and the B&W 705s. They all sounded really good. The 20s seemed like the music was in the middle ground, the 40s were right in front of me, and the 705s were in the back (almost too polite). The 20s seemed like the best choice, but they are lacking at low volume. So now I'm really confused, should I be looking for bookshelfs (on stands) in my price range?

Absolutely! In my listenings, there are very few floorstanders in the under-$1,000 range that did not have significant issues like cabinet resonance and diminished imaging, compared to the bookshelf versions. The only drawback with the bookshelf models is that they won't give you the bass extension that a floorstander will, but they typically present advantages in every other area. I've given the Paradigm Studio series models a good listen (I own a set of the v.2 Studio 40/CC/20s) and will attest to how well done the new Studio 20s are. Their imaging is excellent for a conventional box speaker in that price range, and I'm very impressed with how versatile and balanced the overall sound is.

If the 20s are lacking at low volume, that's probably the bass. Keep in mind that our sensitivity to low frequencies is different from the midrange, so at low volumes the lack of bass will seem more acute. Most receivers/processors will let you boost the bass, and if you do that only when listening at low levels, that should help remedy that issue. The other approach of course is to go with a subwoofer.

All of the speakers that you auditioned should be good choices, although they're all well above $600 a pair (unless your dealer still has a stock of the older Studio series models). The B&W model in that price range is the DM602, which is another well regarded all around speaker that you should give a listen.

[RGA]

I get5 the same impression you got with the 705 - they are too polite and sound rather constipated and I was listening with Bryston gear(hardly polite). The 20V2 is more forward but lacks bass - the 40 V2 was better and at the time I reviewed them better than I would mark them now.

Floorstanders require more work to get right because they offer deeper bass and bass is problematic more often than not - even at dealerships. Both will require a sub in your price range - Try and listen to the B&W 602S3 standmount - it is larger and offers more impact than the 705. I can;t believe i'm saying this but IMO the 602S3 is a far more enjoyable speaker to listen to than the 705 - it presents a more full bodies sound than the thinner punchy sounding stuff being doled onto the market. These speakers make sense because they sound so thin that after a while people will want to eventually buy a subwoofer to fill in all of the missing information - well bass information at least.

The C5 is a good selection too for inexpensive floorstander - but it's not in your area you can;t do much about it. Energy has been around a LONG time - financial trouble? possible but dubtful.

I would try and find the high end dealers in your area and see what they carry - Look for a few brands they carry that you have never heard of - you might be surprised to find that those brands are sometimes the best sounding ones in the store. our budget is a hinderance - but I would rather take a speaker with a bit of resonance(depending how bad of course) but a bit of resonance I'll take if I get 2 mnore octaves of bass response and a more full bodied presentation. I could never be happy long term with any of these standmounts you heard. Bring some of your bassier discs with you and really listen for a while - and some acoustic piano work - the 705 at $2300.00Cdn is grossly overpriced. none of them are any good at low volume partly because they are inefficent - I always get the impression that I need to put the volume up and up and up to get these standmounts from B&W and Paradigm to sound good and then you keep going up and then the speakers start to compress.

It may be that I have been spoiled by listening to higher end speakers and then going and listening to these others just sounds like I'm missing 3/4 of the musical content. But for the money - I would be looking to buy used and try to find a fuller bodied sound.

Don't play the name game - go to a dealer you trust(not easy) and have a list of what is important to you mostly and then see what they suggest. Also these places tend to have used sections and may have some excellent condition options at very reasonable prices that may make the new ones sound like yappie poodles compared to the big St. Bernard you could get.

[topspeed]

I'm with Wooch and RGA in that I prefer standmounts in your price range. Your money seems to go farther in that the quality of the parts and construction seem to be higher. After all, the money the manufacturer would have spent on extra cabinetry can now be spent on drivers, crossovers, bracing, etc. They seem to provide better accuracy, build quality, imaging, yadayadayada.

I also didn't care for the 705 and I'm a B&W owner! The Studio 20 v3's are really, really good speakers and definitely worth consideration. You might check into some planars such as the Maggie MMG ($550) for your taste. Just remember they need room and current. Man, there are so many good standmounts from JM Lab's Chorus S to Monitor Audio to Von Schweikert to Mission...the list goes on. Listen to as many as you can and let your ears decide.

You're off to a good start.

Good luck and buy what moves you.

[Bryan]

I strongly caution you against internet speakers and all the rave reviews you see for them. See they have to have these reviews so to survive as a company so for all we know many of them could be produced by the company itself.

Completely disagree with that statement. If a companies product is bad word will spread on the net like wildfire. Companies such as SVS, HSU, AV123, and ACI will bend over backwards trying to make things right. Even had an experience with Shamrock Audio trying to purchase some interconnects. They ended up taking more time than expected so they sent me a few cds. Of course, Mike had sent me four of the same one but he later on sent out three different ones and graciously let me keep the others. (Gave them away to some friends.) Very standup guy who I recommend wholeheartedly. These guys want to get their names out but want to be known for doing business well. They want you to be satisfied, even if you do not buy from them.

soundslike,

If you enjoy the B&W sound, you may consider is trying to audition the Rocket RS550 (check out audioenvy.com). I believe that will be to your liking. If you do indeed like the sound of it, see if you can get a pair of either b-stock or used 550s. Another worthy speaker to ask about is the Swan 4.1 BC. Ask Jon Lane and see what he recommends. With Mark Schifter (AV123) and Jon they want you to be happy with whatever you purchase.

Audition several speakers to see what sound you enjoy. B&W isn't for everyone yet neither is Klipsch nor Martin Logan. There are a ton of options available to you including used or DIY speakers. Most of all, take your time. A $600 decision doesn't have to be made in a split second.

[brigrizzme]

www.magnepan.com

You will need ample power to bring out their full potential. If you have the opportunity, give 'em a listen.

[soundslike]

Thanks again all for the great advice. I'm going to go through the local hi-fi shop and ultimate electronics (my only other choice) again and really go through their bookshelfs. Wish BB and CC carried better speakers as I like the idea of a 30 day in home audition (although I think I'll do that with the Aethena AS-F2. It won't cost me anything and the worst thing that could happen is I fall in love with a cheaper speaker). I'll give B&W 602S3 a listen as I don't see being polite a problem as I have a smaller house. I'm still 50/50 on the internet purchases for the sheer hassle of returns. A lot of folks mentioned looking for good used or demos at the high-fi store, but the salesman said they don't carry used (but they have a trade in program, where do they go?) and all demos were out of my price range. I don't think I was in the price range of his usual customers. Anyway, if I'm going to buy local I've got the choice of paradigm, b&w, aethena, def tech, and not much else. Back to the drawing board!

[laspino]

My freind your off to a good start in audiophile land if you have such a budget. I strongly caution you against internet speakers and all the rave reviews you see for them. See they have to have these reviews so to survive as a company so for all we know many of them could be produced by the company itself. Many Axiom owners compare them to speakers like the Paradigm Titan and Monitor series...these are at best mediocre; you can do much better for $600.

This is just an incorrect statement. I own ACI Sapphires and they're very fine speakers, strongly supported by their company and excellent value for the money. You're doing audio newbies a terrible disservice by spewing this garbage.

Anyone who does due diligence will be able to find some excellent bargains via internet sales and be allowed a decent time to review them at home.

My own recommendations for $600 are to get a pass on floorstanders and get a pair of bookshelves like Quad 11Ls or ACI Emeralds. If you must have floorstanders I'd look at something by Wharfedale Pac-Evos, PSB, Paradigm or Infinity. Good luck.

[ToddB]

You might also want to look into the Ascend Acoustics bookshelf speakers. They're a mail order company, and they offer a 30-day trial period.

[psonic]

This is always an inexpensive option for you, JBL Northridge E80 3-Way floorstander $150 p/spk. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...696047-0849757

I have not heard them, though.

[brigrizzme]

Ears are like eyes, they're all different. Your ears are better than mine. Here are my suggestions:

I would strongly avoid buying anything available at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. You do not want your speakers to mask your music. On Audiogon you can find vintage Rogers speakers around your price range. I also recommend Spendor.... and of course Magnepan.

[brigrizzme]

I get5 the same impression you got with the 705 - they are too polite and sound rather constipated and I was listening with Bryston gear(hardly polite). The 20V2 is more forward but lacks bass - the 40 V2 was better and at the time I reviewed them better than I would mark them now.

Floorstanders require more work to get right because they offer deeper bass and bass is problematic more often than not - even at dealerships. Both will require a sub in your price range - Try and listen to the B&W 602S3 standmount - it is larger and offers more impact than the 705. I can;t believe i'm saying this but IMO the 602S3 is a far more enjoyable speaker to listen to than the 705 - it presents a more full bodies sound than the thinner punchy sounding stuff being doled onto the market. These speakers make sense because they sound so thin that after a while people will want to eventually buy a subwoofer to fill in all of the missing information - well bass information at least.

The C5 is a good selection too for inexpensive floorstander - but it's not in your area you can;t do much about it. Energy has been around a LONG time - financial trouble? possible but dubtful.

I would try and find the high end dealers in your area and see what they carry - Look for a few brands they carry that you have never heard of - you might be surprised to find that those brands are sometimes the best sounding ones in the store. our budget is a hinderance - but I would rather take a speaker with a bit of resonance(depending how bad of course) but a bit of resonance I'll take if I get 2 mnore octaves of bass response and a more full bodied presentation. I could never be happy long term with any of these standmounts you heard. Bring some of your bassier discs with you and really listen for a while - and some acoustic piano work - the 705 at $2300.00Cdn is grossly overpriced. none of them are any good at low volume partly because they are inefficent - I always get the impression that I need to put the volume up and up and up to get these standmounts from B&W and Paradigm to sound good and then you keep going up and then the speakers start to compress.

It may be that I have been spoiled by listening to higher end speakers and then going and listening to these others just sounds like I'm missing 3/4 of the musical content. But for the money - I would be looking to buy used and try to find a fuller bodied sound.

Don't play the name game - go to a dealer you trust(not easy) and have a list of what is important to you mostly and then see what they suggest. Also these places tend to have used sections and may have some excellent condition options at very reasonable prices that may make the new ones sound like yappie poodles compared to the big St. Bernard you could get.

My Bryston Pre is very polite. Are you speaking only of the amps?

[muziekfreak]

Elac secondhand...nice :-]

[RGA]

My Bryston Pre is very polite. Are you speaking only of the amps?

No the speakers - I also used MF and Cambridge Audio - still the speakers.

[psonic]

This is just an incorrect statement. I own ACI Sapphires and they're very fine speakers, strongly supported by their company and excellent value for the money. You're doing audio newbies a terrible disservice by spewing this garbage.

Anyone who does due diligence will be able to find some excellent bargains via internet sales and be allowed a decent time to review them at home.

My own recommendations for $600 are to get a pass on floorstanders and get a pair of bookshelves like Quad 11Ls or ACI Emeralds. If you must have floorstanders I'd look at something by Wharfedale Pac-Evos, PSB, Paradigm or Infinity. Good luck.

Bargains? There are bargains at circuit city! Why buy something you cannot listen to and compare to good sounding speakers in a shop? The axioms have gotten good reviews on this site and a few others. What is the relative value of these reviews when not compared to Energy, Dynaudio, B&W? They are simply ordered and joe consumer is happy. Would you think joe consumer, who buys them, is happy and gives a good review is a discerning and experienced audiophile? One who bought them because they are better than Energy, Dynaudio, B&W? I would venture to say the average Axiom owner ordered them based on money back gaurantee and all the good reviews. And with little else to go by, except maybe hearing some inept best buy speakers, was happy and kept them plugged into his receiver.

The fact is, these internet bargains really aren't all the bargain they seem like. Look around at local shops and there are good speakers priced right near or below the Axioms. Most of the names we have offered have a model to compete with each model in Axioms line.

So if you can take the same $600 locally and compare equivalent models from Energy, Kef etc., is it a great bargain anymore to buy unheard from the internet? I don't think so...

And go through all the reviews as I have (Axiom), because I was curious too, when I was shopping for a floorstander. I wound up listening for a month or so everywhere I could go, ended up buying used Dynaudio Audience 60's. Point is the reviews make comparisons to speakers like Paradigm monitor series, which I feel is a weak speaker with all there is to offer out there.

I have nothing against auditioning them at home if you can afford to ship them back to Canada, or auditioning at a local owners home - if you can by all means do it. My whole thing is go out and listen to as much as you can, including some expensive reference speakers (to give you a measuring stick), and be very cautious with reviews as most all speakers have good reviews and that these reviews are relative to who is buying them only. I.E., home theater joe (who has seen nothing but best buy stuff) buying his Axiom or Infinity for movie affects, and who is very happy with them does not mean I will be happy with them in my 2ch stereo setup under careful scrutiny. Buy what sounds the best, the speakers will be around to reward you for a long time.

I also wanted to add to the original poster - you may want to add Dynaudio to your list, the 60 / 62 is excellent and is commonly seen on audiogon.com for under $600. You can listen to them first if a Dynaudio dealer is nearby. This is a world-class speaker... it is a bassy floorstander that do a small / medium room without a sub. It performs closer to speakers costing $2k, than those costing its list of $1200. Just an Idea...others around here like speakers I have not had opportunity to hear such as Magnepan, Von Schwiekert, and Audio Note. Point is you may be able to get a more expensive speaker used. There is a lot you can do with $600 these days in used HIFI, take your time...

[bboy1234]

One Word!!!!!!!! ATHENA

[laspino]

Bargains? There are bargains at circuit city! Why buy something you cannot listen to and compare to good sounding speakers in a shop? [snip other commentary]

You missed the point by a mile. If price points and not quality AND price were the goal then CC would suffice. Your words were that you'd warn anyone against internet speakers and the reviews for them. I've explained you can order most of these speakers- Axiom, ACI, Onix, Taylors etc for at home trials. In addition the quality of service, drivers etc can be verified via discussions with users on several forums on the 'net- which is what I did. Due diligence.

The fact is, these internet bargains really aren't all the bargain they seem like. Look around at local shops and there are good speakers priced right near or below the Axioms. Most of the names we have offered have a model to compete with each model in Axioms line.

You're fixated on Axioms while my remarks were more general. My ACI Sapphires have Vifa 7" woofers, Scan Speak tweeters and a excellently crafted cabinets. They retailed for 1200 at the time. Any retail purchased speaker with similar drivers, cabinets etc., would- even with discounts- not be touched for much under $2000. Compare similar quality built Totems and B&W 805s [I was] and the ACI's are wonderfully priced bargains which match the Totems and outperform the B&Ws. I also own Quad 12Ls bought through a retailer at a steep discount [demos] for $600. A great deal indeed, but demos aren't a dime a dozen.

So if you can take the same $600 locally and compare equivalent models from Energy, Kef etc., is it a great bargain anymore to buy unheard from the internet? I don't think so...[snip other commentary]

Of course you might find some EQUIVALENTLY decent Energy's or KEF's, but you'll have to look, and the dealer will be selling them at cost or loss. That's the nature of the economics of electronics. Energy, KEF etc., have a middle-man, transporation costs, inventory fees and mark ups that direct orders like Axiom do not have. I live a major metro area, DC. Even here finding Energy's or KEF's at a hefty discount ain't easy. ACI Emeralds, which got me buying from ACI, were internet priced at $700. Small two way monitors which would outperform my fine Quads. Taylors, ACIs, Onix, etc; Again you're doing a great disservice to anyone by 'scaring' them away from internet speakers.