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Buying new bookshelf speakers
So I'm hard pressed for a new set of speakers. My budget is $500 - $600.
I have found these couple speakers in my price range that look pretty good.
Paradigm atom V.6
Axiom M3 v2
magnepan MMG
Fluance ES1 (they are small towers that I could make space for)
b&w 686
If there is anything I've missed, please let me know
Anyone who has or has heard any of these I would love to hear what you think.
I need a speaker that can sound great on good recordings and not sound horrid on bad ones.
Thanks
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Out of that list the 686's are a clear winner to me.
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I thought they sounded very good when I listened to them at the local a/v store. Is It that much of a diference between the paradigms and the b&w's?
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The 686 is my favorite speaker B&W makes as far as price/performance/value goes so I'm a little biased towards them.
I've never been impressed by any Paradigm speaker except for some of their subwoofers from the mid-90's so the atom was quickly scratched off your list for me.
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do you own a pair of 686's?
I live In cleveland as well and would love to hear them In a home environment.
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I own the 686. They fair quite well in small rooms, don't know how they do in larger ones. I'd try to grab a pair of 685s. They sound similar, but the 685 having more scale and low end grunt.
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Although I love anything from Magnaplanar, the MMG's will probably not satisfy you without a sub.
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I would scratch the Maggies and Fluance off the list. Maggies are not for you, they are not a R&R speaker and take some big power to push. The Fluance I have not heard good things about although I've never heard them personally.
In general I prefer Paradigm over B&W, however, the Atom last I saw only was rated to go down around 90 Hz which leaves a lot of bass information lost. I don't normally recommend Klipsch to people but you might want to give them a listen to see what you think. They are very efficient which means they will play loud without big power and they are generally good matches for lower power and vintage gear, especially Metal heads :) The B&W will offer overall better sound but you may prefer the raw bite and kick of the Klipsch. Depends on what type of system you are putting together. If to pair with a Cambridge to achieve best sound the B&W would be your best bet, if you wanted something to rock in place of the Mach's give the Klipsch a listen.
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There's lots of good used stuff out there for your price range. you can find PSB Stratus Mini's used for under 500 bucks nowadays...they were a great small speaker. Or a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's would be another option
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
Although I love anything from Magnaplanar, the MMG's will probably not satisfy you without a sub.
I thoroughly enjoyed MG-IIs driven by a 100 watt/channel Audire amp when I was 19. My room allowed plenty of space behind the speaker for optimum performance. It was my gateway into the planar world. Honestly, all of these speakers would benefit from a sub. The 5" woofers in the bookshelves aren't exactly room shakers. :)
rw
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Thanks guys.
I am not a bass head. Most of the time I keep bass a 3 out of 10 and the loudness off.
I just want something I can listen to for good times.
I like to background music cds when I first get them to see If I get the tapping effect. And I need a tappable speaker. =]
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So as of right now, I have narrowed It down to the....
MMG's
Atom's
686's
and the Axioms.
I dont mind a lack of bass, Its more a less detail that I'm looking for. From everything I've read about the MMG's there full of nothing but detail. As long as theres some mid bass, Im a happy camper =]
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So i have narrowed It down to....
The MMG's
The axioms
The 686's
and the Atom's
I have read that the MMG's are full of detail and nice midbass. Thats all I am really searching for Is a budget clear speaker that can handle 80's quality hardcore recordings without making It sound like Im In a black hole of music.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
do you own a pair of 686's?
I live In cleveland as well and would love to hear them In a home environment.
Ha small world...nope, sorry I do not own the 686's. Which hi-fi shops have you been checking out in the area?
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I have only been to audio visons. My girlfriend hates going to hi-fi stores with me, as I will stay there for hours just asking stupid usless questions. And plus shes the only one with a car at the moment, so that helps.
Audio craft has definitive and paradigm right?
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yeah audiocraft has DF and Paradigm. I'm prolly gonna head to the one in Mayfield to order a part for my amp tomorrow.
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If you have the space get the MMG's. They must be placed 2 feet or more from the wall behind them. If you can't place them properly, don't waste your time with them. The clarity and clearness may draw you in but you will notice very quickly that a sub woofer is a necessity.:yikes: Don't skimp on a sub woofer.:hand: Save up and wait until you can buy a decent one. A good sub may cost as much as the MMG's. It will be worth the wait.
After that we can discuss a good integrated or a preamp, power amp combo.!!!!!:idea:
Your current integrated will do for now but MMG's like all Maggy's, only come to life with plenty of power. :prrr:
BTW: It may take as long as 30 days to break in a pair of new Maggy's.
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Well, my vote goes to the MMGs, especially for what you're looking for. I like to try things off the beaten track, but even from the better known manufacturers there are some standouts that meet your sound requirements:
- Focal
- NHT
- Usher
- Revel
- Monitor Audio
- Linn
- Polk (LS series)
If you're willing to check out some of the lesser known brands, check out:
- Quad 11. Quad voices their box speakers to match their panels, so if you like the MMGs, that may be an option.
- Odyssey Epiphany. I couldn't find a used pair on sale, but they are a great speaker for the money, especially used.
- Amphion Ion & Helium
- Elac BS123. German precision.
- Triangle Titus. Wonderfully airy midrange.
- Omega Super 3. You don't need a big amp for these.
- And if you can find it, something from the nOhr line like the 5.1 in real teak wood.
- Zu Audio Druid Credenza. Not easy to find either, but a beautiful speaker.
At your price point, these would have to be used, but people usually take good care of monitors, especially if you buy on Audiogon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shodulik
yeah audiocraft has DF and Paradigm. I'm prolly gonna head to the one in Mayfield to order a part for my amp tomorrow.
yeah I wanted to go up to the craft seeing as I have heard they have great prices on used Items. And used Is me =]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
If you have the space get the MMG's. They must be placed 2 feet or more from the wall behind them. If you can't place them properly, don't waste your time with them. The clarity and clearness may draw you in but you will notice very quickly that a sub woofer is a necessity.:yikes: Don't skimp on a sub woofer.:hand: Save up and wait until you can buy a decent one. A good sub may cost as much as the MMG's. It will be worth the wait.
After that we can discuss a good integrated or a preamp, power amp combo.!!!!!:idea:
Your current integrated will do for now but MMG's like all Maggy's, only come to life with plenty of power. :prrr:
BTW: It may take as long as 30 days to break in a pair of new Maggy's.
I am going to be moving from a 600 sq. ft. apartment Into a 1200 Sq ft one In february and wont be buying much more furniture so space will not be an issue.
I was looking at a Marantz Int. Amp a little while ago for $450 that can handle a 4ohm load. Does marantz still make a decent budget system??
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I was also looking at the energy mini monitors (forget the model) for like 100 bucks. They look sweet and Its going to take me until february to get the 5-600 together and would love to have something....now!
any takes on those or the Insignia ones at bestbuy. For like 80 bucks, they sure sound good!!
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I bought a pair of Insignias, I believe the model was the B2111. They were $45/pr at he time. They implement many good design traits, non-parallel walls, coaxial mounted tweeter in a 6 1/2" woofer. They also looked great in piano black finish. They sounded OK. A little less high-end than I'm used to and not as efficient, but great for a $45/pr speaker.
I've also recently purchased Emotiva ERM-1s on closeout for $149/ea with shipping cost of $10. Best $300/pr speakers I've heard. They employ two 6 1/2" woofers, silk dome tweeter, aluminum front and rear panels and contour switches for tweeter adjust and boundary compensation. Well worth a look. After listening, I decided to purchase a third for the front end of a 5.1 system.
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Nice. I am not really used to high end yet, so I'm not sure that i would notice them being bad. They are the ones your talking about, there 80 bucks now.
I figure why not, best buy takes returns all day. I bought those sony 50 dollar bookshelfs 4 times trying to like them....4 times!!! And everytime...guess who went back?
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I see the Insignias on ebay quite frequently, but didn't see any today. I'm not surprised the price has increased. It's a nice little speaker using better than average current speaker technology. A few magnitudes better than "White Van", but at less than "White Van" price.
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I still have not heard a pair of "white van" anything, but almost got cought up in the fancy look a couple times. But I am a google search master and don't buy anything without making sure It's good to go (at least somewhat okay). Now all I gotta do is unload these so I can get something that at least....
Can play a movie without 95% distortion.
=[ I miss my jbl's
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You might want to look into some used Infinity floor standers. Ones with "leaf" EMIT tweeters and ten or twelve inch woofers. They can be had on CL for reasonable prices. Of course a pair of Magnaplanar MG-1's and a sub (both used) will sound better IMHO. I've seen MG-1's for as little as $200. The look of MG-1's has considerable "WOW" factor beyond the "wow" for the sound.
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Everytime I see Magnaplanar's on CL they need to be rebuilt. And I have the slightest clue how to do that. There Is always something good out there, but It's always to far or to expensive. People need to get a blue book or something.
This guy on CL keeps trying to see his sony a/v thats like 10 years old for 150 bucks. Its a entry level one at that......Oh, people.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
Everytime I see Magnaplanar's on CL they need to be rebuilt. And I have the slightest clue how to do that. There Is always something good out there, but It's always to far or to expensive. People need to get a blue book or something.
This guy on CL keeps trying to see his sony a/v thats like 10 years old for 150 bucks. Its a entry level one at that......Oh, people.
Rebuilding Magnaplanars is inexpensive and quite easy. There are several threads on AK that are devoted to just that. Rebuilding them consists mostly of using DAP cement and re-gluing wire onto the diaphragm.
The re-build kits from Magnaplanar are inexpensive. I believe they are in the $50 area.
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Hey Freewillis, I have a bunch of Infinity stuff I'd like to get rid of if you're interested. Check your PM.
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From reading this you want a speaker that will sound good with good recordings and one that will not drive you nuts on lesser recordings. I would avoid magnepan like the plague if that's the case but as they say to each their own. I find them to drive the music selection than let you drive the music selection. They're fussy to place, fussy to drive, but they look cool and will afford you the conversation piece when your buddies come over and say "wow what are those funky looking thing?" The 1.6 is the best model in their line-up in my opinion and justifies its price. It's the only model I think that does justify its price and I still would not touch it with a ten foot pole if Rock, alternative, hip hop - or basically anything amplified. However, strings are nice and left to right soundstaging is as good as you'll likely get or ever need - however the off axis response means you can't move your head more than a couple of centimeters or else the entire stage falls apart.
The MMG has appeal for acoustic instruments at low volumes and if bass is not necessary they're a good buy. But they're extremely limited again if music is amplified (rock, hip hop, pop, country etc) is going to be played - and if you want to play at good drive levels.
They're worth a listen - but make sure you buy based on sound - not just the "that's cool I've joined a club" platform.
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If you do not want to join a club and say "wow, i got those too" then i would avoid Audio Note gear as well. I wouldnt touch that with a 10 foot pole either....urg :out:
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Yes Flo believes that that the MMG is the absolute top of the line Rock speaker on the planet as you can tell from all the rock concert venues that don't use panels - obviously the industry is wrong and Flo is right. But then he's a club member.
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Good looking guys! As of right now I am trying to download all my cd's that are under 320kbs and are VBR to at least 225kbs or higher. So I'm trying to keep the bad recordings away. But like all older hardcore/punk, It was ment to sound like ****.
I gotta find something here soon before I expload! These mach's are so loud and annoying! Anyone want to donate a speaker to the kid needs good sound fund????
=]
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I would still like to listen. The logan's I heard were so good with metal. But I cant afford logans so thats outta line.
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I would not be dumping music because of "so-called" bad recordings because they may not be nearly as bad as you think. I feel comfortable listening to any album I have from any genre I have - and that is possible to do on the cheap.
1) I would start by looking at speakers "not" using metal tweeters. They're great to sell people in a rushed environment (big box chain) because their sound stands out but what impresses at first usually creates fatigue long term. This is not to say that a silk dome can't be bright - they can but generally if the maker chose it that was not the goal in mind.
2) Something noted to be a bit smoother sounding but also a good all-rounder. On the cheap it might be Wharfedale (with a carefully chosen subwoofer) or a slightly used Dynaudio 52SE standmount which can be had for $500 used. Or if you are planning a subwoofer then Omega loudspeakers or other 'good" single driver higher efficiency speaker could be a strong candidate.
3) Amplifiers and sources matter a lot - some tube amps can clean up the treble hash and reduce irritation but they can cost money and require more work and time.
4) It really simply boils down to you doing the auditions with your favorite music (regardless of recording quality) because it is the music that should drive the purchase not the speaker that can only play 5% of your recordings well and a salesman telling you that that's because they're "accurate" - it's BS and very worrisome to sell something for music that makes the music worse. Also don't worry about spending less than you planned. Back in the day I purchased the 302 from B&W over their more expensive stable mate in the 602 and to this day I prefer the 302 to the 600 and CM range and in some ways the 700 line. The 302 had problems but all day listenability was not one of them. And it was the least expensive model - using a soft dome tweeter.
Used would be your best bet - speakers last a long time - a 3-5 year old speaker that was $1500 could be had in your price range - but that market it is so massive that it's hard to make recommendations. A good dealer could help you out - but not ever town/city is blessed with one of those.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
I would still like to listen. The logan's I heard were so good with metal. But I cant afford logans so thats outta line.
Logans are electrostatic and to my ear they sound far more natural than ribbons producing the same mid and treble bands. The Quad 2905 is an electrostatic panel and one of my favorite loudspeakers - but it's $14,000.
Martin Logan uses a bottom of the panel enclosed woofer in their speaker because they recognize that in order to get dynamic sound you need a dynamic driver. Ie; to get bass you need a cone driver or a "massive" sized panel.
Most domestic homes can't handle a massive panel so they compromised by putting in a woofer. They can sound startlingly good. I would suggest caution here too though because the curved panels have frequency issues and the woofer integration is a very very common complaint - not just by me but a lot of folks - it is detected more on long listening sessions where you hear a lack of cohesion from the panel to the woofer. Every speaker has some compromises and many can live with the ML's issues.
Of course it's moot because of price
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NO! I ment I was redownloading the music that was Imported at bad levels to hope for a little bit of better sound. I dont care If It sounds like It's coming out of a dogs butt I'm still listening to It. In the type of music I listen to you dont buy the music as maybe $.10 per cd gets to the band. We (I) buy merch which goes right Into the bands pocket and shows I support them! So I am stuck with bad recordings unless I must own the cd.
There Is some cd's I own that sound like they were recorded In a bathroom let me tell ya! But I love um!
I always feel strange going Into a audio store with my music. It makes me feel rude playing my loud "devil" music(sorry had to put that In) with all the nice dressed people looking for good sound.
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"I always feel strange going Into a audio store with my music. It makes me feel rude playing my loud "devil" music(sorry had to put that In) with all the nice dressed people looking for good sound."
Hey man you're the customer and and audio system is a machine that plays signals back. It should not care what that music signal is and neither should the shop owners. Unless they're selling equipment that can't reproduce those signals (and many can't) then other than volume issues to protect the speakers you should be able to play anything you like.
It is not a crime to like heavy metal, rock, alternative and it's far better to choose a speaker that YOU like rather than audiophile approved speakers from some old fart who is recommending speakers limited to his Grey Poupon violin solos.
A speaker that can't do reasonable justice to amplified kick drum and bass is probably not doing justice to classical music either. They mistakingly associate bass dynamics and visceral impact with distortion and "box resonance." I'll take a little audible resonance when I get visceral impact, bass, dynamics, and in room pressure of instruments and the ability to play AC/DC and Slipnot or Rage Against the Machine or Tupac to acceptably loud levels with hit you in the chest sound. I also want a system to have a great deal of finess with acoustic instruments and for a piano to have the rich full tone and decay that that instrument possess. I want a speaker and system that can do everything very well.
At $400-$600 you can't. So you choose the speaker that suits MOST of the music you listen to best and that can at least plausibly do the rest acceptably. If you were a solo acoustic low volume listener then the MMG would be my recommendation for that price range - but I suspect that does not make up most of your listening. there is no ONE speaker recommendation at any given price point. If most of your music was louder rock and you didn't mind a bit of bright then the Klipsch Reference 63 which is selling at about half their original price (here in Canada anyway) would be a great choice (and for home theater too). The MMG sounds better with classical but the Reference series IMO sounds better on everything else.
As someone who listenes to a huge variety - perhaps something in the middle of those two would be better - something not quite as good on classical but acceptable and something not quite as good as the Klipsch for rock but acceptable - tough balancing act to find on the cheap.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
"I always feel strange going Into a audio store with my music. It makes me feel rude playing my loud "devil" music(sorry had to put that In) with all the nice dressed people looking for good sound."
Hey man you're the customer and and audio system is a machine that plays signals back. It should not care what that music signal is and neither should the shop owners. Unless they're selling equipment that can't reproduce those signals (and many can't) then other than volume issues to protect the speakers you should be able to play anything you like.
It is not a crime to like heavy metal, rock, alternative and it's far better to choose a speaker that YOU like rather than audiophile approved speakers from some old fart who is recommending speakers limited to his Grey Poupon violin solos.
A speaker that can't do reasonable justice to amplified kick drum and bass is probably not doing justice to classical music either. They mistakingly associate bass dynamics and visceral impact with distortion and "box resonance." I'll take a little audible resonance when I get visceral impact, bass, dynamics, and in room pressure of instruments and the ability to play AC/DC and Slipnot or Rage Against the Machine or Tupac to acceptably loud levels with hit you in the chest sound. I also want a system to have a great deal of finess with acoustic instruments and for a piano to have the rich full tone and decay that that instrument possess. I want a speaker and system that can do everything very well.
At $400-$600 you can't. So you choose the speaker that suits MOST of the music you listen to best and that can at least plausibly do the rest acceptably. If you were a solo acoustic low volume listener then the MMG would be my recommendation for that price range - but I suspect that does not make up most of your listening. there is no ONE speaker recommendation at any given price point. If most of your music was louder rock and you didn't mind a bit of bright then the Klipsch Reference 63 which is selling at about half their original price (here in Canada anyway) would be a great choice (and for home theater too). The MMG sounds better with classical but the Reference series IMO sounds better on everything else.
As someone who listenes to a huge variety - perhaps something in the middle of those two would be better - something not quite as good on classical but acceptable and something not quite as good as the Klipsch for rock but acceptable - tough balancing act to find on the cheap.
Hahah tupac!
thanks!
If I could find a speaker that sounded as good as my paradigm 5se-mk3's that were just a smidge brighter then I would be a happy camper! They were just to toned down, but had the dynamics I like and want In a speaker. I kinda wish I wouldnt have sold them and would have gotten a super tweeter or something. Made a great hustle out of them though =]
Anyone had that speaker or remember hearing It. As I said before I don't drive so unless I hop on the bus and go downtown I cant hear anything. (My soon to be wife HATES AUDIO!!!)
I have a def tech and paradigm dealer close to me as well as a ML and B&W dealer. The one with def tech has a large amount of used stuff. I cant wait to go over that way and just listen all damn day. I liked the Klipsch reference stuff just It always seemed out of my price range!
The guy I sold my paradigms to got a paradigm sub and a center to match the mk-3's and the atoms for like $400 (he got the massive older powered 12 I think)
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