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Good for you ChrisY.
Always listen to the "ears"...what makes them happy is what you take home regardless of other peoples reviews and suggestions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisY
I went with Polks as I find them inexpensive and very pleasing to my ears and Polk has an incredible website.
Excellent choice! I've always liked Polk sound :) I think you'll be extremely happy with what you got.
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If you like the BOSE sound thats is cool! If you like the sound of a B&W or Pardigm is also cool. Who cares?!? For me a little Paradigm and B&W or BOSE all sound the same, and thats fine too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisY
Well im not sure whats next for awhile, my girlfriend is putting a cigarette out on my new fascination but i'll keep you posted.:)
Huh? Eeeeyyyyouch!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
If you like the BOSE sound thats is cool! If you like the sound of a B&W or Pardigm is also cool. Who cares?!? For me a little Paradigm and B&W or BOSE all sound the same, and thats fine too.
Hi Flo,
How are you? Got any new goodies on the way? Planners etc. are still a little out of my budget right now. You'll have to do the listening for me.
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Hey Chris,
Great choice on the R30's and an even better deal! I listened to them several times but not before I had already picked up a set of Rti38's in a deal similar to yours. Should hold you for some time and you can also use them when you're ready to upgrade your HT. Enjoy your new system.
Gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
If you like the BOSE sound thats is cool! If you like the sound of a B&W or Pardigm is also cool. Who cares?!? For me a little Paradigm and B&W or BOSE all sound the same, and thats fine too.
Thanx everyone for your congrats, im very please with these for my introduction into HT but was curious about Florians comment, do Paradigm,B&W and Bose really sound the same?:confused5:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisY
Thanx everyone for your congrats, im very please with these for my introduction into HT but was curious about Florians comment, do Paradigm,B&W and Bose really sound the same?:confused5:
I would guess no. I haven't heard them myself. But.. You see, Flo has this incredible system. He likes panel speakers. They don't have speaker cones or boxes. Instead they have a thin material (some types are Mylar film, others tin, other use others etc...) stretched from top to bottom. Instead of a few speaker coils, they have rows & rows of electro magnets that move the thin film back & forth to create the sound. This is really the simple explanation. But anyway, these are the speakers he likes and has spent mega bucks on them and the amps to drive them. I heard a few a while back and was very impressed. I could see why he would never want to go back to boxes again. Just not in my budget yet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisY
Thanx everyone for your congrats, im very please with these for my introduction into HT but was curious about Florians comment, do Paradigm,B&W and Bose really sound the same?:confused5:
No, it's just that since the bose basing has died down, Mr. I have the money to know it all, wants to start a new flame war.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisY
Thanx everyone for your congrats, im very please with these for my introduction into HT but was curious about Florians comment, do Paradigm,B&W and Bose really sound the same?:confused5:
Does a M3 drive like a Yaris? They are both two door coupes, have four wheels, engines, et.al. Therefore, they must drive the same :rolleyes:.
This is the same astute deduction Flo applies to any speaker that isn't a planar and has met some commercial success. Nevermind that the vast majority of classical recordings are mastered on B&W's and some of the most prestigious studios in the world, including Skywalker Sound, utilize them. Forget that both Paradigm and B&W have been very well reviewed, both professionally or otherwise. Better still, go down to a audio salon and come to your own conclusions. It's not like they are hard to find.
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At it again i see.....
Flo, do you feel its necessary to belittle the HT/audio equipment that some of us enjoy and work so hard to put together, every chance you get? I worked pretty hard to buy my "little" paradigms, and i actually enjoy them, quite a bit to be honest. I'm comfortable with the fact that my audio system isn't the best or even close to it, but im pretty damn happy with it. Theres no need to make people feel like complete sacks of $hit about something they spent a small fortune on. If you feel the need to bash certain people in particular, do it in the Steel Cage, people comming to this site to read and look for advice might get caught up in this convoluted Bull$****.
Peace,
Wayne
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Ahhh.. the irony. :D Here we are all bashing on some Bose and along comes Flo and is quickly accused of bashing on other lesser systems. Its all a matter of scale and perspective. I have a Paradigm and Velodyne system and bash on Bose. Flo has Appogee and bashes on Paradigm. We are both guilty of the same offense. Hell, I'm worse. I say "Don't buy Bose, even if you think you like it, because you really don't like it, you just don't know it yet." Flo at least says if you like Bose, then okay. I think he is just suggesting that any dispute among the box dwellers as to whose got the best box is irrelevant, because he's moved onto a higher level.
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Many of us (myself included) enjoy "Bose-bashing," because we genuinely dislike the level of performance Bose speakers offer, and, more importantly, feel that Bose products offer a relatively poor value for the money. Nevertheless, Bose has done, and continues to do a brilliant marketing campaign to promote its products, and to provide dealer support no other loudspeaker manufacturer ever did. This was especially true in the late 70s and early 80's, when dealers had to provide a complete wall in their stores dedicated soley to Bose, but were rewarded with promotional material and factory support heretofore unmatched (and still unmatched) in the industry.
I own a Bose "Wave" CD/radio. The only reason I do, is that it was free as part of a promotion between Bose and Nissan one year when I leased a Nissan Pathfinder. It's a nice radio, and sounds pretty amazing for the plastic box that it actually is, but is it worth $1,200??? Not in the slightest.
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I still like my Bose anyhow.
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Paradigm, B+W and Bose all sound alike?
Wow talk about either tone deaf or so hoity toity that your inability to recognize anything below your astral plane is simply remarkable.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisY
Thanx everyone for your congrats, im very please with these for my introduction into HT but was curious about Florians comment, do Paradigm,B&W and Bose really sound the same?:confused5:
Consider that he cannot tell the difference between a Paradigm, B&W, and Bose, yet has gone on record as being able to distinguish between when a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) is placed on a stone base versus a wood base. That, and differences between cables, transports, speaker position changes of 5cm, etc.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...1&postcount=28
Those changes audibly affect the sound, but Paradigm, B&W, and Bose are indistinguishable in Florianspeak. Use your own ears and decide whether it's easier to distinguish auditory differences between speakers or the base material that a DAC is mounted on. But, just remember that Florian's never wrong (or at least claims as such)! :rolleyes:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showpo...95&postcount=5
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Wow, i guess having a personal opinion really is not welcome here. I never stated a fact about the sound of B&W Paradigm etc.. i simply said that to me they all sound the same. Live with it!
PS: Yes i do have another pair of DIVAS coming next month from a Italien collector incl. the digital active crossover. And yes before you ask, next week i will present my 3500$ crossover.....snoby? No, just a fact. And to quote a new member on this site who sent me a PM
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However having said that, I do agree with your approach to minimizing as much additional coloration as possible to extract all the (intended) information from an audio source. I congratulate you on having the means and technical knowledge to build your dream system. Many of us would like to be in the same position but are not and therefore drag down others who are.
I believe that the purpose of this forum is to share knowledge and you obviousely have experiences to share with someone (like me) who is relatively new to all this. Ignore the naysayers and just f_*** 'em.
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Unsolicicted testimonials?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Wow, i guess having a personal opinion really is not welcome here. I never stated a fact about the sound of B&W Paradigm etc.. i simply said that to me they all sound the same. Live with it!...And to quote a new member on this site who sent me a PM
Gotta' love it...I suppose next time anyone says CDPs or amps or anything for that matter, sound the same, we won't see any of your ego-centric rants...
And a word of caution to your secret admirer..."technical knowledge" oh puh-leese...I've said it before, click on his name, view his posts...understand what you are defending...last time I looked "condescending" wasn't in the glossary of technical skills...
I'm particularly fond of this thread's examples of his "knowledge" and his ability (or lack thereof) to respond to reasonable "technical" argument:
http://forums.audioreview.com/cables/high-dollar-speaker-cables-speaker-crossovers-15878.html
Bypassing a few crossover components doesn't qualify as any sort of expertise...
jimHJJ(...talk about misplaced faith...)
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BOSE = Appliance
I have found through experiences with my brotherinlaw that a lot of people who buy BOSE want an appliance...he wanted to buy speakerrs and be done with it.. my brotherinlaw is someone who isnt capable of doing things for himself such as changing the oil in his car or tuning up his lawnmower. in fact the last time i went over to my sisters house, i needed to work on something for her and i couldnt even find a wrench.. they had several screwdrivers and thats it
my bro in law doesnt care about specifications like frequency response, Dynamic Range or SPL ratings..his biggest criteria was buying a name everyone knows about.
my brotherinlaw bought his all BOSE system at a cheap price... or so he claims, he didnt listen to any other brands. He has the 301 in front on the built in entertainment center, a small cheapo center speaker and cheapo surrounds.. they rarely listen to it.. only occasionally for a movie now and then and at christmas time they have background music playing. Its funny to because in their circle of friends everyone is kinda snobbish and when they are over they all go gagga over bose.. its more snob appeal than anything..One of his friends asked me what kind of soundsystem i had... he said jeez you should trade it in and get a good system like bose.. I told him my system will smoke anything Bose makes, i told him how my speakers have rubber surrounds on the woofers, how they have thick wiring and better internal bracing and 5 way binding posts.. basically it was conversation over.. this guy did not want to hear about specs at all. For me a better constructed speaker = better quality sound not a better name.. oh well guess ill never win this argument
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison
I have found through experiences with my brotherinlaw that a lot of people who buy BOSE want an appliance...he wanted to buy speakerrs and be done with it.. my brotherinlaw is someone who isnt capable of doing things for himself such as changing the oil in his car or tuning up his lawnmower. in fact the last time i went over to my sisters house, i needed to work on something for her and i couldnt even find a wrench.. they had several screwdrivers and thats it
my bro in law doesnt care about specifications like frequency response, Dynamic Range or SPL ratings..his biggest criteria was buying a name everyone knows about.
my brotherinlaw bought his all BOSE system at a cheap price... or so he claims, he didnt listen to any other brands. He has the 301 in front on the built in entertainment center, a small cheapo center speaker and cheapo surrounds.. they rarely listen to it.. only occasionally for a movie now and then and at christmas time they have background music playing. Its funny to because in their circle of friends everyone is kinda snobbish and when they are over they all go gagga over bose.. its more snob appeal than anything..One of his friends asked me what kind of soundsystem i had... he said jeez you should trade it in and get a good system like bose.. I told him my system will smoke anything Bose makes, i told him how my speakers have rubber surrounds on the woofers, how they have thick wiring and better internal bracing and 5 way binding posts.. basically it was conversation over.. this guy did not want to hear about specs at all. For me a better constructed speaker = better quality sound not a better name.. oh well guess ill never win this argument
Good response. Made me laugh - thanks. And believe me there are many thousands like your brother in law. You're right, you will never win that argument.
BTW, I have a wealthy friend ,I go shooting with, and he is so proud of his little Bose cubes and the amazing sound they create, I want to cry.
Peace
Bernd:16:
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Great post Jamison. :thumbsup:
Slumpster,
I agree with everything you say except for the fact that Flo has "moved onto a higher level" as opposed to "box dwellers." Admittedly, I haven't heard his Apogees, and considering the fact they went the way of the DoDo bird twenty odd years ago, I doubt many others have either. However, I have heard big panels from Maggie and ML and I wouldn't pick either over a "box" speaker such as the WP7 or VR9. I'm not saying they are bad, in fact they were quite good and I can see why people love panels. But for me, I preferred the sound of the Wilsons and Von Schweikerts. Being a panel owner does not automatically mean you have moved onto a higher plane (pun intended).
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Oh goody...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison
my bro in law doesnt care about specifications like frequency response, Dynamic Range or SPL ratings..his biggest criteria was buying a name everyone knows about.
Out of curiosity, we know the nominal FR of human hearing is 20Hz-20kHz, what part of that is actually heard, on average, in practice?
How many recordings actually have bass fundamentals that go anywhere near 20Hz?
Due to their design, there is no way to really correlate any direct radiator design to that of Bose direct/reflecting systems...apples and oranges...Personal preference is a whole 'nother thing...
Dynamic range? I'm sure you know the definition of the term...the difference between the loudest and softest sound produced...more a product of the program material and the recording method than of anything else...more applicable to an amplifiers noise-floor and S/N ratio than to a loudspeaker...Are there figures that show a particular loudspeaker excels in reproducing that ratio? I haven't seen any that specify a spec for dynamic range...efficiency, yes...sensitivity, yes...
SPL ratings? In reference to what? Measured FR? See the above design considerations...or do you mean can they play loud?
Re: purchase preference...how many cars, or clothing, houses or even spouses are chosen because of name brand recognition, price or looks? Nothing unusual...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison
... i told him how my speakers have rubber surrounds on the woofers, how they have thick wiring and better internal bracing and 5 way binding posts..
Materials? Some say paper...some say carbon-fiber...still others say Kevlar...and there are those who say cones are second-rate...Thick wire? Internal? External?...simply a product of design...you can take the theoretical "best" of everything, put it together and it can sound like cr@p! 5-way BPs...ummm, and this means what? It's like the mnfrs. who provide bi-wiring terms to do nothing more than meet market demands than for any sonic reason.
Bose builds a well-researched (on many levels) and well-built product line that fits within their corporate, and their customers, expectations.
There are any number of legitimate factors to point to, to dissuade a potential buyer, yours have been none of them; in fact, their simplicity and the plug'n'play aspect is one of their strong selling points.
I mean there are many folks who will go on and on about camera bodies and various lens types and apertures and f-stops...and there are those who are happy with the pictures they get from disposables...bored to tears by the jargon-spouting, hobby-centric, know-it-all geeks...
jimHJJ(...and that's why they make vanilla and chocolate...)
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well let me rephrase this ... better construction to me = the POTENTIAL for better sound.
like having a house constructed with 2 x 8's instead of 2 x 4's you may not see a difference right away but give it some time.
im sure the average person cant hear much above 10k and i know i cant especially at 40 yrs of age.. but its nice to kow its there... like having a 12 foot ceiling instead of an 8 ft... you dont need the extra headroom but it can make a dramatic difference in the appearance of the room. I had my hearing tested a few years back and they said i cant hear anything above 10k.... but yet i can raise or lower the the 20 KHz setting on my eq and tell a difference why is that ? btw i only use the eq with my cd player... I like to listen to 2 channel without a sub and i boost the bass frequencies slightly for that... Klipsch isnt known for dramatic bass anyways..
or lets say photos, you can take a high resolution photo and lower it but you cant take a very low resolution photo and make it high resolution..
i guess i prefer something with better build quality... is my system the best one out there? no way, I like speakers a lot of people tend to hate (Klipsch) are they better sounding than anything out there ? No i know that... for me they sound better than a lot of stuff ive listened to... I cant afford or need Apogee speakers like some others... but at least I can say I worked for them... I do landscape designing and installations and the installation is very hard work, it makes me happy knowing i worked my duff off to afford what i have.. i havent had it handed to me by mommy and daddy
it all boils down to this ... a desired level of performance. (Bose builds a well-researched (on many levels) and well-built product line that fits within their corporate, and their customers, expectations) well researched? show me the reseach? they dont even list specs... i know specs arent everything but it is a starting point or point of reference. its their customers level of expectations... an appliance... it works its reliable.. well at least till the foam rots out. Bose built one unique design with the 901s everthing else they make is just a copy or variation of that with the exception of the cubes... just as Klipsch has done with the Klipschhorn... Btw ive heard them and cant stand them way too bright.. although i love my reference series..
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If you listen to the BOSE and compare them to other speakers in the same price range and you like the sound of BOSE better buy them. and enjoy them.... IPODS are all the rage now and selling like hotcakes... Do i own one ... No and probably never will. my level of expecation is too high. I agree with you 100 percent on brand regocnition especially on looks and price. people tend to buy whats popular rather than whats better
they just dont know or care that there is a better option out there for them.
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Well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison
well let me rephrase this ... better construction to me = the POTENTIAL for better sound.
...we could go off on the tangent of how modern injection molding gives better sample-to-sample quality control and allows for adherence to tighter tolerances, but I'm sure we would be wasting time and bandwidth...unfortunately you seem to have missed the entire point of my post...Bose doesn't build shoddy products, they are built with materials that do what is expected of them (budget and other-wise) and that will survive for at least as long as the warranty period requires...The Bose sound is the Bose sound, like it or not...just like any other sonic signature of any other audio product, like it or not...
One could cite high price (a product of their marketing and advertising costs), the closed-loop factor of the Lifestyle systems (done with a purpose) or the too-high crossover point of the bass module in the Acoustimass systems (a product of the designer-friendly size of the cubes)...these would be completely valid reasons...these would also be completely irrelevant to their customer base.
No one is putting a gun to anyone's head coercing them to purchase any of their products, yet people are...so if you insist saving folks from themselves, feel free...
jimHJJ(...Hmmm...mommy and daddy buys all the Bose stuff for their snot-nosed kids?...I think you may have issues that go well beyond their marketing practices...)
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